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pegasus1337

A real Fix for the toxicity in the HoN community

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I've been on Hon Since 2009 Betas when you needed a Facebook invite to get on.  When Icefrog was on board.

Since then I've seen HoN go up, and then go down, and the problem is obvious and we all know it.
The Game itself is unforgiving so people are hard on mistakes so people get mad at each other easily.
RaP system doesn't work.  Let's face it, HoN is hurting for more players so they allow new accounts to be easily made not to discourage new players.

So if punishing people doesn't really work then why not a smarter REWARD system.

You guys ever notice that most Trolls got the balls to troll the game, break the rules, feed yet for some reason they won't just leave and find a new game?
Because even the worst of the bunch believe that having too many leaves could lead to permanent repercussions, despite making another account.

Let's just all come to the consensus,  Punishing doesn't work.  It's exactly because each ban is a slap on the hand while you play on your alt accounts.
So basically Good players have no reason to be on their best behavior outside of personal ethics.

So I suggest a smart reward system just like cashback or points earned on a credit card.
True, you give out gold and silver for playing a game, but avatars are not essential to the game.
First of all, you need to do something about multiple accounts running off the same IP.
and you need to completely delete  accounts that are caught trolling at low levels.  Those are obvious side account specifically created for trolling.

There has to be a reasonable incentive to play on your Main account.
There has to be a good reason not to wig out and feed or troll the game.
The community is toxic based on the nature of the internet, but HoN currenty has no reason to be a law abiding citizen.
The penalites are a joke.  So if you don't know how to punish people without the threat of losing players to competing games.

Then find a way to setup a reward system so that the game isn't full of trolls, and leavers.  The Dogs will do anything for a treat, So hand out more treats!

 

Next: Solving the noob issue:  There is two types of newbs,  people who are actually new, and ignorant who don't read.  Because there is an overwhelming amount on knowledge to read for anyone starting a serious moba.  Either way, no one wants to play with scrubs because its a team based game and nothing more irritating that people who can't pull their weight.

Ultimately, its not about losing.  Its fine to lose a good game, but lets face it, how often do you play a GOOD game.  It sux both ways, either you lose too instantly or you win too instantly.
 

When HoN first started there was a youtube channel with nix who taught HoN.  I think teaching hon NEEDS to be implemented into the game and not just on youtube.
All you have to do to get good in HoN is read more and watch youtube, especially Zlapped and Testie when they teach and explain.
HoN needs to talk about wards, and other strategies, and basic attribute system so that new players can easily educate themselves.
AND there needs to be TREATS given for completing the courses.  Like 30 silver for each video watched and it can't be skipped or fast forwarded.

HoN can be a robust experience when all players have reasonable knowledge on the game  like any game.
but unlike most games HoN cannot be taught when the game begins,  there is no time, the talking bothers the other players, and that player has to play too.
Newbies to the game do not know anyone to be mentored.

You guys could also do a tutor system, where people can volunteer to  mentor other players for silver or gold.

 

The point is,  Dogs respond better to Treats,  HAND OUT MORE TREATS

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


 

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1 hour ago, pegasus1337 said:

The point is,  Dogs respond better to Treats,  HAND OUT MORE TREATS

Crime rate drops to 0.

that's not how shit works btw. in fact people would just start abusing that mechanic too on every possible step of the way and/or resort to griefing if it's not possible or someone else abused it better than they did.

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7 hours ago, MerryHONmas said:

Crime rate drops to 0.

that's not how shit works btw. in fact people would just start abusing that mechanic too on every possible step of the way and/or resort to griefing if it's not possible or someone else abused it better than they did.

Then why are you even here?  You don't have a better idea, and by your logic we should do nothing.
You're like the kind of person that if someone introduced a vending machine, you're going to say, people will just break into it.

Do you know of more instances that people just pay or more machines broken into?
The world will never be perfect but these are steps in the right direction.
If you don't have a better suggestion, and either you don't see a possible fix or you don't care to help.  Then refrain from replying.

Anyone can post what you did,   Can you offer helpful ideas?  No?  then what are you doing?

This is the "suggestions" area.  What's your suggestion?  oh nothing?

Don't be that annoying date, that will only tell you where she doesn't want to go.
 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

not i am actually not sure why you would react as passively aggressive as you did to a simple response.
i am talking from experience and i have actually contributed my fair share to this game, including suggestions regarding the RAP system among other.
not long ago FB introduced silver rewards, and people instantly abused it for infinte silver.
if you want any more proof than that you are delusional.
people already abuse the TMM bugs and leaver issues. They abuse the VIP votes and whatnot.
 

Edited by MerryHONmas

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9 hours ago, pegasus1337 said:

This is the "suggestions" area.  What's your suggestion?  oh nothing?

Well one suggestion should be put into each thread and others should respond to it. Preferebly with arguments. He put one argument 😉 - since you didn't write when exactly additional rewards should be handed out, it's hard to criticize more about that suggestion itself.

But to put some additional feedback here:

  • Cashback systems intend to force people to use a system, not have an influence of how they handle things. If people can abuse a system, they will. And HoN can't hand out rewards that are not only valid in their own game. As an SRCT I know that people join RCT because of rewards they can use in Retail but leave after they can buy what they wanted. Those usually also just do the bare minimum required for rewards. If they find a weakness in the system, they will use it.
  • Disabling low-level accounts when they troll, won't do anything at all. People that just create accounts for trolling will just create another one - doesn't matter if it's banned for a week or eternity.
  • Having tutorial videos helps some people, while it doesn't help others. And it just prevents those from even trying HoN. The way to go imho is the DotA2 way to have tutorials which aren't horrible for new players to go through. That also prevents trolls from creating new accounts (if you have to play through 2 hours of tutorials each time) while not really preventing new players from joining. But implementing those is a bunch of work and will probably not happen. Anyways there are bot-matches, which are a joke for experienced players, but new players which have heard of mobas before should try bot-mtaches first anyways and not play real games until they can win hard bot matches (if they don't that's their own fault 😛).

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The first guy says it won't work so don't try.

The Second guy says its too much work, so don't bother.

Both of you are neither imaginative nor actually want change.
I made a suggestion,. get that through your head.  I'm not here to write the constitution for them.

The idea is to incentives good behavior rather than the current punish system.
Neither one of you want to try simply because YOU can't think of how to implement.

That's like saying a hero sucks because you don't know how it works.

 

I thought the first response i got was ridiculous, the second one about too much work.  How about you like FrostBurn  decide if it's "too much work"?

As far as this ABUSE you're talking about,  just be smart about it.  No one is going to setup something like free real money everytime you play so people will join just to disconnect because it's based on games joined and not games completed.

You do SMARTer well thought out things. You setup more bonuses for team asisst bot including gobal spells.  This should encourage more effort to team play than to solo afk.
Then you see how hat could be exploited negatively, and tweak it from there.  STILL. it won't be perfect, no deterrent stops things 100% of the time. but we're moving in a better direction.   Not everyone will read the path update, not everyone will care, some won't even understand it at first.  but therefore Do nothing?

 

#1 won't work, do nothing

#2 too hard, do nothing

#3 too much work, do nothing

So you like the way things are?   How often do you get a "good game"  something that went back and forth and not because both teams are too weak.
Not because there is a troll on the winning team who refuses to push so the game is dragged out.  How often do you truly get to play that felt evenly matched?

1 in 20?  1 in 30?   Most games end are ruined by bad behavior.  So how do we encourage good behavior?  Both of you guys response.  WE DON'T

Ok helpful and helpful.

 

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Oh the irony, guy who's name ends with 1337 calls out people on being toxic... listen man, people who you think are the reason that game is dying are not actually the reason... it's because of people like you that the game is not enjoyable. Super troll thread

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11 hours ago, Diabetis said:

Oh the irony, guy who's name ends with 1337 calls out people on being toxic... listen man, people who you think are the reason that game is dying are not actually the reason... it's because of people like you that the game is not enjoyable. Super troll thread

how miserable is your life that you have to speculate on others?  Not a single thing you said is confirm-able.  
Nest you'll assume I'm probably fat and I live in my mom's basement,  yes?  Keyword probably.  Maybe some type of virgin joke? again keyword Maybe.

I never called anyone out on being Toxic. you said that.  You're the one trolling here.
For whatever reason you took offense to what I said,  That's your problem.

It's like if I said hey douche-bag and you're the only one who responds.  OK,  I guess you're a it then.

did that go the way you expected it?  nope.  "Oh the irony~!"  That's not even what Irony means.   Love when kids use big words to sound ambidextrous.  

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think you went too far from your topic which proves my point.... you are more toxic than the people you are fighting against. Worthless thread as the HoN RAP system is pretty good.

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I understand the person who created the thread and is right on several points, but you cannot change the community with rewards as if they were small children, man we are generally older, almost all of us are adults and if they cannot behave then simply You report them and you follow them, they have touched me with many trolls and they have discriminated against me in many ways for being Latino, but what I do is silence them and I enjoy my game, I know it is annoying I understand it but people take advantage of those rewards at all times. The ones you are talking about just to behave well and I don't think so, we should all be good players because the game warrants it, because we are adults now.

You touch a very good point and the truth is that I had not thought about it and that is to carry out a community of HoN teachers, so to tell them to teach new players, and who says that you cannot teach someone to play with bots, you start from scratch and I'm willing to teach someone how to play precisely so they don't become a troll or a feeder. I have invited several friends who play LoL to join HoN, you create a discord room and a public room in HoN and that's it, but it would be great if HoN created an option to help the newest and well I would be willing to help, everything so that the community is less toxic and I have thought that the changes always begin is for you, if you respond to a toxic and play along with a troll, they will be pleased.

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On 6/29/2020 at 12:47 AM, Diabetis said:

think you went too far from your topic which proves my point.... you are more toxic than the people you are fighting against. Worthless thread as the HoN RAP system is pretty good.

I think you contribute nothing and this will be the last time I acknowledge your existence.

The Hon Rap system is garbage,
Ban an account for 5 days while they play on an alt account.  REAL EFFECTIVE.

None of you guys work at frostburn yet so quickly to help them say, lets not do this, lets not do that.

The punishment system has been tried, and it's not working.  The parking tickets on HoN is BS!
So therefore try a reward system.  EVEN IF people abuse it.  As long as it is still better than yesterday then its good progress and we'll tweak it from there.

Every Great idea is good till it's not.  You implement it, then wait for results, then tweak the bugs.  Just like patching the game.

What you DONT DO!  is NOTHING!  By your logic patching is too much work, don't make a game at all.  That's EXACTLY what you're suggesting.

Nothing is perfect.  Make the game, Make the rules, tweak as you go along to make it better.  How does this logic not apply to what i'm suggesting?
You don't know if something will or will not work till you actually do it.  And if people abuse it, SO WHAT?  how egregious is the abuse?
Recycling cans in some states is worth money, so some people do nothing but collect cans to recycle. IS THAT ABUSE!?  Alternatively it keeps streets cleaner than if the cans were worthless.  YES there are plenty of adults who are responsible and put away their trash despite no reward system.

Sure, if you setup a tutorial program where the game will pay the tutor in silver to teach the noob, there are people who might create two accounts to grind that silver.
That's where you have moderators come in and examine what's happening, and tweak it by adding certain restrictions or conditions so that the incentive isn't loss but the abuse is deterred.  You do this by having smart creative people spend time on this.  Not like you turds who don't want to lift a finger.  that's exactly what I mean by you morons are stubborn and unimaginative.

I left a suggestion, NOT Guideline.  It's up to Frostburn to decide where to go from there.
YOU are here to swat down suggestions and you don't even work for the company.  Whose the TROLL?
You're so much of a lose you even troll the forums!  that's how much time you have on your hands.
I'm here with good intentions,  you're here with bad ones.  Whose the Toxic?

The reason I'm so harsh on you isn't because I'm toxic.

It's because this is the suggestion area, and I left a suggestion.  Good or bad it's not for you.  It's for frostburn. It's none of your business.
What are YOU doing here?  Do you GET THAT?  I don't care what you think, and you're in no place to judge.  Go do that in the general discussion.

 

Seriously think about what you're doing,  I leave a suggestion note in the suggestion box,  You immediately leave a note that say I'm toxic.  WTF?

You got a better idea?  Start your own thread.  WTF are you doing swatting down other ideas?  Do you HAVE IDEAS?  no?  then STFU what are you doing here?

Seriously  you got a lot of nerve showing your face trying to get the last word when you can't even justify being here.

 

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25 minutes ago, pegasus1337 said:

 

you shouldn't use that language here on forum. Calling frostburn employees  turds and morons... grow up friend and then make a suggestion.

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3 hours ago, DragnSlyer said:

I understand the person who created the thread and is right on several points, but you cannot change the community with rewards as if they were small children, man we are generally older, almost all of us are adults and if they cannot behave then simply You report them and you follow them, they have touched me with many trolls and they have discriminated against me in many ways for being Latino, but what I do is silence them and I enjoy my game, I know it is annoying I understand it but people take advantage of those rewards at all times. The ones you are talking about just to behave well and I don't think so, we should all be good players because the game warrants it, because we are adults now.

You touch a very good point and the truth is that I had not thought about it and that is to carry out a community of HoN teachers, so to tell them to teach new players, and who says that you cannot teach someone to play with bots, you start from scratch and I'm willing to teach someone how to play precisely so they don't become a troll or a feeder. I have invited several friends who play LoL to join HoN, you create a discord room and a public room in HoN and that's it, but it would be great if HoN created an option to help the newest and well I would be willing to help, everything so that the community is less toxic and I have thought that the changes always begin is for you, if you respond to a toxic and play along with a troll, they will be pleased.

And that's all I'm saying,  A step in the right direction,  Everything new under the sun will have holes in it.
That's why version 2 version 3 comes out.  what you don't say is.  ITS NOT PERFECT SO LETS NOT DO IT.  ITS TOO MUCH WORK SO LETS NOT DO IT.

I don't even get why these morons are saying that, they don't even work here.  They have no skin the game.  If HoN is truly fine as it is, then why even have a suggestion area in the forums?  It's because Forstburn cares.   This is like I'm talking to a friend and a stranger comes over and says  I DONT CARE! THATS A DUMB IDEA!
Should I feel insulted or is he the idiot?

The tutoring system might be cool if they did something like, players of a certain Level can tutor for Gold or Silver.
The bounty is later decided by the student of how helpful and courteous he thought his tutor was. Kind of like your Uber Driver on a star system.
The higher the stars, the more gold or silver you get.  While bad ratings will go on your permanent record.
To prevent some douche from making two accounts or grinding with a friend.  It's a Blind queue. So you don't get to choose which tutor you get.
If too many students think you're bad, just like having a leaver %, if it gets too high you're gone.  HoN will provide the curriculum for the both the tutor and the pupil to choose.
The topic on, how to play a specific hero,  Warding, Item builds, picking for team synergy and picking for team countering.  I don't know, these are just examples.
There should also be a video library of tips on the client software.  Bonus gold could be given to good players who submit guides or willing to submit hero guide videos.
Maybe the more up votes and views you get for your guide, the is a royalty payout in silver or plinko tickets.  But this is what I mean by reward system.

Not everyone will do it, some won't care, some won't even look into it, but if there is no egregious abuse, and it causes less feeders, then how are we not better for it?

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Just now, Diabetis said:

you shouldn't use that language here on forum. Calling frostburn employees  turds and morons... grow up friend and then make a suggestion.

you first

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Hello,

first off I kinda dislike the way you are trying to make your point here using an offensive language. You are not perfect yourself considering your past (and recent) suspensions.

Sometimes people let other players provoke them and react in a way they usually would not. We do not want them to stop playing the game cause they made a mistake.

But you are wrong on multiple parts of your assumptions:

a) a new account used for griefing will lead to all accounts being suspended as those are considered as throwaway accounts.

b) if you are getting suspended while already having an active suspension on another account you will also receive a global suspension.

These processes are not automated - it's a manual thing GMs have to do so obviously there is room for "mistakes" so it's not perfect but it works.

 

What I do partially agree on is that main accounts should receive some extras that make it more hurtful if they get suspended. It already hurts a lot of people since they have all their avatars n stuff on them but encouraging people to focus on their main account more would also reduce the smurfing. Currently the incentives for using just one account are rather small.

Other games have other types of validations e.g. phone numbers to prevent smurfing to some extend. But most of the stuff cannot be applied to HoN at this state.

Having IP restrictions for account creation does not make any sense. Besides that it's very easy to circumvent there are also potentially multiple people on the same ip address on the same household/internet cafe.

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19 hours ago, pegasus1337 said:

 ITS NOT PERFECT SO LETS NOT DO IT.  ITS TOO MUCH WORK SO LETS NOT DO IT.

I am not saying that, I am just saying that with a game you cannot change the world, you cannot only with rewards make people behave well, because they are simply trolls and they like trolling, to tell you about an experience I had yesterday, I I play with an NH in my team and he started to follow me, taking away my exp and gold, what does one do in those moments, if it is known that he is lost, you start to argue with him, you get angry, you get angry and the troll is happy because you fell into his game, I'm sure that person will not change because they give him 500 silver or an announcer.

I agree with you on one point, and that is if you need people who have been playing for years, which are many, to start teaching those who have not played for a long time, or the novice, to teach them how to play, and so you can the community is less toxic, but in all games there are trolls, it is something normal in the video game community and the truth is I do not agree that rewards should be given for behaving well, because they should do so with rewards or not. I have friends who are very aggressive, rude and discriminatory and it really hurts them not to be able to play in their main account, because it is the account where they have everything and you lose many things to advance in the first place if they report you.

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