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You are again stuck on a deserted island...  

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  1. 1. You are again stuck on a deserted island...

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Can we get a DR nerf again. The hero is incredibly frustrating given how badly he invalidates positioning. It's impossible to position safely and out of initiation range, even if you have PK, because he will always get you; while Pharaoh can do this too DR can actually escape after killing you. Plus DR bursts for a lot more than Pharaoh. It's especially nonsense when he's got a regen rune and can ulti THROUGH your team to do damage while invulnerable.

The bugger's at 57% win rate, #1 among all heroes in Garena, FWIW.

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The same poll.... Oh dear.   Oh yeah, the regular Balance/Design subforum rules don't apply in this thread (but the global forum rules still do). You can chat about almost anything you want

I'd love to. I think the main frustration factor with Adrenaline was mitigated when the change to his Q cooldown occurred. He is no longer able to create large one-sided fights with a 3>2.25&g

Let's rock and roll with Adrenaline. I've suffered enough testing that previous design, time to reap the rewards. Just so it isn't lost on Discord, can we please let Adrenaline cast his W outside

Are you finally at least even a little bit happy that Pebbles got "a nerf"?

 

For DR, how do you suggest we "nerf him" without removing the flavour that makes the hero unique (i.e. practically a 0 second cooldown blink gated by mana)?

 

Also, Adrenaline.

Edited by ElementUser
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3 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Are you finally at least even a little bit happy that Pebbles got "a nerf"?

 

For DR, how do you suggest we "nerf him" without removing the flavour that makes the hero unique (i.e. practically a 0 second cooldown blink gated by mana)?

 

Also, Adrenaline.

I'm happy.

But then again, I think that you've been on the right track with a lot of this despite the mass hysteria.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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47 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

I mean, some competitors who play Pebbles a lot complained that it was too much of a nerf. So....who can tell what's "right" these days anyway?

Yeah but people who play heroes will always find a reason to complain. There is inherent bias.

Death's Halo on Adrenaline is a little wack, I don't think it needed the 20% damage for 1 second duration aspect to it.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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4 hours ago, ElementUser said:

I mean, some competitors who play Pebbles a lot complained that it was too much of a nerf. So....who can tell what's "right" these days anyway?

Merge the servers and problem solved. After all, Zlapped is on record for saying he only learned how broken DR was after he moved to Garena.

How to fix DR, ideas:

- Make the amount of mana drained proportional to the distance travelled. Make the mana drain especially heavy If he travels more than the standard PK distance.
- Could also make it so that the amount of mana drained scales with how many times his ult is cast in unit time. I suspect this is less good than the above.
- Make his ult do damage in an AoE around the point where he arrives. Right now he damages everything he moves through.

Reactions to the patch notes in another post, although I will stress that 1) I'm playing significantly less HoN these days and 2) patch is not live on Garena yet.

Edited by Sorais
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Kneejerk Adrenaline Thoughts:

Hero requires so many different stats for so many different things (which is fine), but the rewards are currently a little low. He needs Health to sustain Death's Halo and his initiation role, he needs regen to sustain massive Q spam and his low mana pool, and of course Agility so he can wail on people and make Q scale a little.

One of these needs to be eased a little, not by much mind you. Q costs way too much currently so a minor buff to it's mana cost would help. After that, something minor like Halo's duration being less shoddy or some kind of extra Agility Scaling on W or E would help a lot (I vote for extra magical Cleave damage based on his Agility). That's really it from a first few day's perspective.

His laning is abysmal, but the payoffs are not high enough just yet. He is kind of on the precipice of being really solid but needs a push to justify the incredible amounts of farm in a sidelane (as obviously midlane Adrenaline doesn't work with how Q is designed). While he can do some damage with a partner like Glacius or someone (with a pull combo), he doesn't really justify the gold sink.

At a minimum he needs a Portal Key, Boots (Sorcery or Steams) and some kind of Regeneration Item (Sunder, Nome's, etc). Items that fill multiple parts of his objective (Dawnbringer, Icon) are more valued than ones that don't (Geo's, Bola, Wingbow).

Anyway, tl;dr:

He needs minor buffs to make his gold load a little more appealing or less burdensome. 

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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On 12/1/2020 at 10:32 PM, ElementUser said:

 

For DR, how do you suggest we "nerf him" without removing the flavour that makes the hero unique (i.e. practically a 0 second cooldown blink gated by mana)?

The broken thing on DR ain't his Ult and travel abilitys, it's actually the E doing way to much DMG for literally nothing. You can literally kill any non STR hero at Mid at lvl 7 and there is nothing they can do about it. E does way to much DMG and that's his issue.

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About pebbles

Should we increase mana cost of W when he learned ultimate?

I mean, peb's ultimate increase damage of W with no cost, and the mana cost of Q W didn't change in mid/late game, make peb too easy to play with just a small stat or max mana increase with bottle or level up

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Just a random ideal come out when I seeing Apex:

What if we rework Apex skill similar to the old Draconic

 - Skill 1: A nuke skill with slow

 - Skill 2: Burning Ground (Buff ms speed and leave burning ground behind when move)

 - Skill 3: Burning Hand (attack or cast skill leave a burning ground which is slowed enemies stand on it)

 - Skill 4: Current Ultimate with some change?

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Hi. I'll be brief. xemplar items: Barrier Idol 3650, Geometry's Bane 5200, Staff of the Master 4200(all 13050) VS Arcane Bomb 1650, kills all illusions(80%+any mass skill). Please change the cost of Arcane bomb to this cost(13050 golds). Or 5000-6000 golds. 1650 is not funny. Arcane Bomb control all items on Xemplar. This hero is useless

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DR is bull****. I hate the hero so much, even in MW. I suppose he wouldn't be so ridiculous if he could not buy Nullstone/Shrunken Head, but of course he can, and then some heroes just have literally no way to fight him anymore. Like, say you're Forsaken Archer and that guy ults next to you. What are you supposed to do, press Shrunken? He ults away, waits out your Shrunken, then comes back. You are realistically not hitting your Q on him either. So fun.

Here's another idea to solve the issues with DR: make his ult cooldown dependent on the distance travelled. Up to, say, 600 distance it can have effectively no cooldown. Beyond the standard PK distance, it should be at least two seconds long, possibly more.

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You are painting DR like he has infinite mana that can jump away from your SH then jump back on you and do whatever he wants on you...

if a SH FA is getting picked off by a DR it means that he's playing in dangerous positions and deserves to be punished

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Buy Nullfire Blade.

DR doesn't have infinite mana. I can agree he's strong but he needs so much farm for that payoff.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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  • 3 weeks later...

Posting this here before I forget, going to make a formal thread soon-ish.

Regarding Kane and Balance of Power (Mostly).

Quote

 

Balance of Power is hardly balanced and the hero is basically a walking Creep when his short range Ultimate is on cooldown. Waylay is his only real skill, and for a hero with two stances only one really scales well as the other basically just grants armor.

Offensive
Critical chance that scales geometrically as the game goes on. Mana Regen which is harder to buy, and also allows for people with heals to sustain the heals that Defense can offer.

Defensive
Armor that scales logarithmically as more armor is worse and worse, and armor in general becomes gained as people gain levels, auras, items, and Agility. Health regeneration is alright outside of combat when laning but is an easier stat to gain (as most people need Strength or Regeneration of some kind anyway).

If you really wanted to gain more survivability, Offensive aura grants good lifesteal opportunities as well as the virtue of killing your opponent faster. Kane does not want to be fighting longer than he has to because all he offers is Waylay, additionally BoP-D only offers armor (half of what could possibly be killing you) while BoP-O helps kill the one stat that needs to hit 0.

Basically, the Hero does nothing when R is down, Waylay doesn't justify enough power in his kit to give him effectively 2 passives (one of which basically never swaps late game). Balance of Power is two skills in one, but it really isn't as one's scaling is actually so bad that it falls off naturally as the game progresses as the other continues to improve. A hero who wants to switch Stances midfight... But doesn't really gain benefit from doing so. It also takes so long for BoP to switch over, by the time you need to vanguard for your team you've lost 5s of possible critical damage, there's 0 interesting way to use BoP in it's current iteration.

None of this even takes into account Steel Resolve, which really prefers you to have more Attack Damage and Critical as opposed to some Paltry Armor. Like, why do I want +8 Armor when they're already doing -80% damage to me? When the other option is to Critical them in the face with their own damage?

 

I need to clean this up, but yeah, Kane needs some work.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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On 12/11/2020 at 12:36 AM, Mr`Cactus said:

You are painting DR like he has infinite mana that can jump away from your SH then jump back on you and do whatever he wants on you...

if a SH FA is getting picked off by a DR it means that he's playing in dangerous positions and deserves to be punished

He might not have infinite mana, but he's got more than enough. It takes like several hundred mana to get to the FA, and then several hundred to get out. Meanwhile he can have, like, 2000 mana at level 16 and regenerate mana at 30/s. So he's got more than enough to get in and get out. Remember he doesn't have to ult the full distance, even moving just 700 distance means FA can no longer hit him.

There is no such thing as "playing in dangerous positions" against a DR because he's capable of moving next to you regardless of where you are. No matter where you stand, it is dangerous.

Oh and after he ults one hero, he can ult another one because his ult has effectively no cooldown.

Hero is bull**** and needs a rework badly, much more than pre-rework Adrenaline which actually had legit counterplay.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Some ideas to rework Armor of the Mad Mage:

Option 1:

  • Components: Null Stone (4500g) + Platemail (1400g) = 5900 gold
  • Stats: 10 armor + 15 all attributes + 15 damage + 6 health regeneration + 150% mana regeneration
  • Passives:
    • Single-target spell-block (15 seconds cooldown)
    • Mad Mage Aura (enemy unit; 900 radius): -4 magic armor & -35% Base Damage
  • Active: Shares the spell-block effect to a target allied hero for 15 seconds. Puts the passive on cooldown if either self or target triggers the spell-block. Has 1000 cast range, higher priority over other spell-block, and 15 seconds cooldown.
Thought Process:
  • Reworked Armor of the Mad Mage is still underpowered.
  • Null Stone is good but doing nothing much if the passive is on cooldown.
  • A HoN version of Lotus Orb (dota item).

Option 2:

  • Components: Luminous Prism (1500) + Platemail (1400g) + Recipe (400g) = 3300 gold
  • Stats: 12 armor + 18 intelligence
  • Mad Mage Aura (enemy unit; 900 radius): -3 magic armor & 10% Increased Stun and Debuff Duration (on application)
  • Active:
    • Creates shield to self by 2x wielder's primary attribute as its health for 5 seconds and converts 35% absorbed damage by the shield as mana.
    • Has lower priority than Barrier Idol's Barrier and Chipper's Focus Buffer, else it has highest priority than any shield.
    • Cooldown: 20 seconds, Mana Cost: 75.
Thought Process:
  • Proposed to be a partial counter to Shaman's Headdress.
  • Shield is favorable because it prevent on-attacked cooldown of certain item and ability.
  • Intelligence arguably is least favored attribute so the change promotes its usability.

 

 

Edited by datfizh
Adds option 2

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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  • 3 weeks later...
1 minute ago, Lunarios said:

psst, before anyone else talks about it, the new adrenaline is a bit too strong, you heard it from me first

It was kind of necessary if this is the case - his win rates were abysmal. I can't afford to be too conservative this patch.

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i didint enjoy him to much on the first game , but on the second when I knew the skills ,  I won the game from 25-7 alone , pretty fun to play but gonna be banned so much , also I think he is weak against predator ,  maliken or other carry with Shrunken.. But people dont know the hero yet so thats why they complain.

 

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Let's rock and roll with Adrenaline. I've suffered enough testing that previous design, time to reap the rewards.

Just so it isn't lost on Discord, can we please let Adrenaline cast his W outside of maximum range to move the maximum distance like Portal Key? When you have a fraction of a second to PK in, attack, turn around, if you miss that pull because you clicked slightly out of range it feels absolutely horrible.

Edited by Hubaris
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I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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New Adre is so much fun, lol. By far the most fun hero to play atm. Also super cool concept now where you have to run around until you hit 2+ enemies for spamming q. On any Solo vs 2 lane he is just super fun, haha.

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