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You are again stuck on a deserted island...  

25 members have voted

  1. 1. You are again stuck on a deserted island...

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29 minutes ago, Syllab said:

I think that setting a max of 1 creep dominated at a time is more practical and achieves the same result. Ophelia has a limit so the mechanical aspect already exists.

No need to change what's already working. If I did what you said, you can replace the creep any time it dies. "Oh, so add a cooldown" this is what we have now ?

Edited by ElementUser
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The same poll.... Oh dear.   Oh yeah, the regular Balance/Design subforum rules don't apply in this thread (but the global forum rules still do). You can chat about almost anything you want

In keeping in the spirit of HoN, I feel like a place for people to have less formal discussion about Balance while still having a place to discuss Balance is required. Sometimes there are discussions

Honestly Blacksmith IS the RNG. What would be his identity without it? You could do something similar to Legionnaire but with the power of a 1600 Damage Multicast on the line its a little more than ju

Posted (edited)

So would it be insane for Codex to scale like 400 / 550 / 700 / 850 / 1000 instead of just 400 / 500 / 600 / 700 / 800?

Considering the item costs 7000 Gold to fully upgrade, most other items at that cost do far more for far less.

Edited by Hubaris
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I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Question, is the Mystic Illusion Rune buff invisible to enemies? If not, it really needs to be.

Also I was playing a game the other day where one of the enemies AFK'd in well and they refused to kick him, knowing that I wouldn't be able to reset my Ultimate on Goldenveil. Is there any way to get around this at all?

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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The main argument for the state to not be hidden (the actual state, or just the VFX) is because of the CD altering property affecting a veteran player's ability to gauge when a hero's ability cycle starts again. If that effect isn't visible, veteran players will be caught off guard by a stun/escape being available 4s later, and it could cost them a hero kill (or more).

 

Now if people think that's less of an issue than the actual deception part of the illusion rune (which, let's admit, it's more rarely used to good measure than the other facets of the rune), then we can talk about it.

 

Why not separate the CD reducing effect to another rune? Because it dilutes the rune pool (which is already good as is). Why even have the auxiliary effects in the first place? Because illusion rune was hugely underwhelming compared to the other rune choices. For all intents & purposes, the rune is here to stay because of these reasons.

 

Refusing to kick a player hurts their own team since they don't reap the bonus items/gold from the AFK player. That's a fine tradeoff & there's nothing we should realistically do for Goldenveil to accommodate such a niche scenario.

Edited by ElementUser
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I think in the laning phase the deception part is really relevant. 

Did you ever fix the bug with AFK Timers and TB Ult / SW Ult / Pharaoh Ball hitting them in well.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Related to the EW thread, maybe the wolves could be changed to do half damage or no damage if they hit a target in FOG? I think that is the most annoying part of the hero, just no-skill spam that hits you if you are in such a big range of the enemy. Vision timer could be upped a little to compensate.

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20 hours ago, Bersk said:

Related to the EW thread, maybe the wolves could be changed to do half damage or no damage if they hit a target in FOG? I think that is the most annoying part of the hero, just no-skill spam that hits you if you are in such a big range of the enemy. Vision timer could be upped a little to compensate.

Not a bad idea. Your mindset of the changes needed to be done its correct. Dont agree with the no-damage, but the concept behind the nerf in fog seems kinda interesting

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ElementUser: Can we get a tracker for Electric Shield's remaining health on the skill itself? In the middle of chaotic fights it's sometimes impossible to tell when Shield is up and how much is remaining on it which causes some pretty devastating doublecasts sometimes (as each cast cripples the next). That and we have one for Nome's now so...

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Unfortunately not =( we don't have a pip system for the shield bar & we can't dynamically represent the scaling of mana. We can only do shield bars for shields with static max health values like Moraxus.

 

It's more an issue with how drastic Electrician's shield can scale more than anything else.

Edited by ElementUser
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Posted (edited)

Would it be possible to take the mana spent and add them as  Numerical Charges on the skill? As damage is dealt charges are removed? Or even a value on the State like the Nome's Wisdom Overheal?

I'll honestly even settle for some kind of differentiation between Energy Absorption's Sphere and Electric Shield's Sphere.

I get on kicks where I play certain heroes nonstop and it's one of the worst things with Elec.

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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any thoughts about old salomon vs new salomon? 
Imo old salomon used to be much more fun, and more skill based than the current one . (Hitting your slashes, popping up your ultimate at the right time)
I never play the hero atm. I find him quite the boring hero. Thas how it feels at least in my mind. 

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A few things. Can we consider changing SW's E into something like this:

Each attack gives self and nearby instances of self a charge, at 4 charges gain 50 attack speed and deal 8/12/16/20 extra damage on attacks for 4s then put the skill on cooldown for 20/16/12/8s. Illusions share this ability.

Point is to give flavor and a burst effect with down time instead of a 100% up time effect, which is bland, too ineffective in the early game and has no counter in the late game. In the laning phase SW lacks a whole ability slot and is forced to turtle farm until late game. Which imo kinda exacerbate the either he makes it or he doesn't kind of feeling.

 

Also how about the old-new prisoner ultimate. I feel like the effect of reducing damage dealt by enemies hit by ult fits the hero more, he wants to stand in the middle of the fight to hit stuff but he's too squishy. Lacking such a sustaining combat tool makes him reliant on burst damage, and that doesn't feel good when you die faster than the enemy you're trying to burst.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, rezziedahl said:

A few things. Can we consider changing SW's E into something like this:

Each attack gives self and nearby instances of self a charge, at 4 charges gain 50 attack speed and deal 8/12/16/20 extra damage on attacks for 4s then put the skill on cooldown for 20/16/12/8s. Illusions share this ability.

Point is to give flavor and a burst effect with down time instead of a 100% up time effect, which is bland, too ineffective in the early game and has no counter in the late game. In the laning phase SW lacks a whole ability slot and is forced to turtle farm until late game. Which imo kinda exacerbate the either he makes it or he doesn't kind of feeling.

 

Also how about the old-new prisoner ultimate. I feel like the effect of reducing damage dealt by enemies hit by ult fits the hero more, he wants to stand in the middle of the fight to hit stuff but he's too squishy. Lacking such a sustaining combat tool makes him reliant on burst damage, and that doesn't feel good when you die faster than the enemy you're trying to burst.

While I'm not sure where is Prisio situated balanced wise, I wouldnt mind a rebalance to his passive in that sense. Maybe combine part of that ult buff with his old E, going to something like this:

One Man Riot (passive) - Back to 15/20/25/30% Base damage for each of your abilities on cooldown (so he just doesnt get a permanent 30% base damage increase with 1 point in the ability during laning phase)
One Man Riot (active) - Enemies deal 10% less damage to prisioner and an additional 10% for any other enemy hero in the radius. (sinergy with the new passive and allows him to have better chances in the heat of the fight)

On another hand, Im still not sure if he requires a pseudo-hook. Thematically, I really would prefer if heroes were allowed to get closer and dirty to fight against Prisio and punished if they didnt do so, instead of just being hooked right to his side ?

 

Edited by Bersk
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Posted (edited)

I really like the new One Man Riot over the old one which I thought was fairly uninspired. He wants to be in the center of attention and it works extremely well with his whole kit.

On 7/2/2020 at 4:58 AM, doctornik said:

any thoughts about old salomon vs new salomon? 
Imo old salomon used to be much more fun, and more skill based than the current one . (Hitting your slashes, popping up your ultimate at the right time)
I never play the hero atm. I find him quite the boring hero. Thas how it feels at least in my mind. 

I read old Salomon and I got excited before realizing that we were still referring to the jungling Alchemist instead. I find Salomon to be one of the worst designed heroes in the game, he is so incredibly dull in my mind. He is inevitable even if he does stop scaling; but by then the damage is done. Trying to gank a hero with a 5-7 minute Frostwolf Skull / Heart is basically impossible and it only spirals out of control there.

Spoiler

Old, Old Salomon for reference had a Q that shot a scaling wave out which healed/harmed. A W which was basically the trail portion of Bramble, granting allies a ton of movespeed. An E that granted him a shield the more he moved, a mirror to Nomad's Wanderer, but he was able to activate it to share it with allies in exchange for his own shield. His R transformed him, and sent out orbs that spiraled out before crashing back in to whereever his location was when the lag on it ended.

If I recall his Q during transform was the Slashes, W was the jump stun, but I could be mistaking that for another iteration.

Honestly he was pretty cool.

 

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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I too, got excited when he started talking about old Salomon, it was an amazingly fun hero, I stopped playing him once he was changed.

I saw that bramble was closer to him at some point, but he had lost so many things from the original Salomon that it wasn't the same.

And while we're at it, look how they massacred my boy Rampage ? changed all the skills of my favorite hero that it might as well be a new hero now.. tried to play it once, just gave up on him too.

At least the parallax radius on his ulti made him a lot more viable now, so I can play him more.

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So like, what's the story behind Adrenaline? He feels like a HotS hero (Valeera) with the way he manages his "resource" pool.

So wack.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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They just wanted an energy hero in HoN.

 

It's just too bad the hero's design is totally horrible & lacks proper counterplay (% of Max Health dealt as True Damage). It's always going to be a garbage hero conceptually because of that.

 

I intend to change that by end of 2020.

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33 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

They just wanted a ___________ in HoN.

Sounds about right.

I think some of it is salvageable (mostly Death's Halo), but there's no way in its current state.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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I see many ppl build spellshard on gravekeeper. Does it work with his ultimate?? From my experince, damage his ultimate come from minion not gravekeeper so it doesnt working

HoN SEA Player

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6 hours ago, w3_starboy said:

I see many ppl build spellshard on gravekeeper. Does it work with his ultimate?? From my experince, damage his ultimate come from minion not gravekeeper so it doesnt working

People don't actually know how Spellshards work and when they should get them.

The fact you see Revenant and Blacksmith with Spellshards is pretty telling.

... And no it doesn't work on GK Ultimate.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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I have to wonder. When Apex uses Armageddon and doubles the duration of The Burning Ember on his enemies, can we have it apply a second Debuff or State instead?

The reason being is you sometimes will just hit them and reapply the regular 5s buff, basically making this empowered version pointless.

If it's meant to catch stragglers I guess the current way works, but with him being in the thick of things and applying TBE constantly it feels almost redundant.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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While the changes to jungle were good for viability, I think it should have been coupled with nerfs to carry junglers. I have the feeling that as days pass, Solstice and Draco will rise in impact in high games, and Salo might become a big issue in low-mmr games. Obviously is an early analysis and hopefully I am wrong, but my initial impression is that ?

Edited by Bersk
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It's better to get junglers noticed first & then nerf rather than pre-emptively trying to balance everything & then see that there were some misses on balance changes & seeing some jungle heroes becoming too weak.

 

The whole point of the patch is so people try different laning options, with one of them being suicide/jungle.

Edited by ElementUser
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Yeh, patch really feels good for that, there are more options that feel viable which I'm really enjoying! I get the approach and I think it's a good one, just worried because regular patches take 2 months, so it kinda worries me that I might end up playing against draconis and sols every game for that long ?

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27 minutes ago, Bersk said:

Yeh, patch really feels good for that, there are more options that feel viable which I'm really enjoying! I get the approach and I think it's a good one, just worried because regular patches take 2 months, so it kinda worries me that I might end up playing against draconis and sols every game for that long ?

That's what bans are for

 

?

 

It's a good collective control mechanism once trends are figured out & in the event that the gap between patches is a bit long.

Edited by ElementUser
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