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You are again stuck on a deserted island...  

25 members have voted

  1. 1. You are again stuck on a deserted island...

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I guess we'll have to wait and see. What's the ETA? 2 days?

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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The same poll.... Oh dear.   Oh yeah, the regular Balance/Design subforum rules don't apply in this thread (but the global forum rules still do). You can chat about almost anything you want

In keeping in the spirit of HoN, I feel like a place for people to have less formal discussion about Balance while still having a place to discuss Balance is required. Sometimes there are discussions

Honestly Blacksmith IS the RNG. What would be his identity without it? You could do something similar to Legionnaire but with the power of a 1600 Damage Multicast on the line its a little more than ju

Posted (edited)

A 70s cooldown on an aoe ultimate of that caliber is still considered really good. It adds a bit more downtime risk for farming or wave clearing, without it being too penalizing if your team unexpectedly engages while it is down. 40s was too generous. 

 

The whole point of the nerf is to address that issue, without crippling the option to use it as a wave clear. 

Edited by ElementUser
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Posted (edited)

Yeh, I do understand your point,  but what I'm pointing out is that for me the issue is with the caliber of the ult, which is currently balanced only by the long cd in the base kit. I do concur that the nerf was needed, but my initial feeling is that the cd won't allow for the option of wave clear since it is the short CD that allows Hag to heavily control lanes and apply pressure to farming carries (Kinda like chipper's ult). Besides that, I don't really like the ult being superior magic damage since it heavily reduces the number of counters it can have, hence I would have preferred a change to that, but it may be more of a preference.

It is worth to note that Queen Of Pain (aka, dota counterpart) has true damage in the ult as part of the base kit and the 40 sec cd as an upgrade and was never and issue in the previous meta, but the damage increase from SOTM was lower

 

As an additional point, and more from experience than from data, most of the current Hag gameplay revolves around building SOTM, which is one of the reasons that I worry that a nerf to her upgrade instead of a rebalance of her base kit (this could go both ways, either the SOTM build was too strong, or any other build was too weak) will heavily reduce her play time. But again, this is mostly for consideration, since I still have to see how the change impacts on players ?

Edited by Bersk
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On a different topic, how will Ioyn Stone interact with the Merrick's rune? Will it also grant gold? Will it just take the rune as a refreshment?

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1 minute ago, ElementUser said:

You'll see in the patch notes, but TL;DR Refreshment rune, with the on-consume effect giving gold when the rune disappears

Nice! Guess my stubborn plan of always getting Ioyn stone will finally pay back ?

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Also important to note is that Queen of Pain doesn't apply Dagger to her R nor does it slow.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)

Oh, yes, but Hag's Q damage is magic, not superior, even when applied with the ult (and the focus was mostly on its splitpushing uses) which is why I didn't considered it for the comparison ? (though additional slow is certainly better than no slow). Same reason why I didn't include QoP pushback

Edited by Bersk
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Posted (edited)

I don't want to make a whole thread to ask, but where should we put silly Hero Draft ideas nowadays? I have a feeling it might just be me doing this but I always found it super fun to make things even if it wasn't ever going to be implemented.

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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You got it then.

Didn't want to clog up the Suggestions subforum.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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I saw the attack projectile speed increase in CD, I wanted to ask (too lazy to check :P), which are the heroes with the slowest and fastest attack projectiles? Is there a backround philosophy on this or is it a legacy feature?

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I think Flint or Artillery has one of the fastest projectile speeds.

Pollywog might have the slowest but this is going off of memory.

This is one case where consistency would be bad IMO so I'm glad they all still have different speeds.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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21 hours ago, Hubaris said:

I think Flint or Artillery has one of the fastest projectile speeds.

Pollywog might have the slowest but this is going off of memory.

This is one case where consistency would be bad IMO so I'm glad they all still have different speeds.

I agree that consistency would be bad, I was curious to learn how the attack projectile speed is adjusted, somehting like the squishiest the hero the fastest attack speed/heavy nuker low speed etc...

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I think it's flavour mixed with balance. Could you imagine Flint with Polly's projectile speed? It would look super silly. Alternatively, Flint's high projectile speed with Voodoo's base damage? That would be silly in a different way.

I'm no expert of course but that's my view.  

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)

I expected an initial higher reveal area for the Rev ward changes, but I'm glad with the final number, it feels really good. Thanks for taking the suggestion @ElementUser !

Edited by Bersk
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Posted (edited)
On 5/29/2020 at 5:41 AM, Bersk said:

Oh, yes, but Hag's Q damage is magic, not superior, even when applied with the ult (and the focus was mostly on its splitpushing uses) which is why I didn't considered it for the comparison ? (though additional slow is certainly better than no slow). Same reason why I didn't include QoP pushback

if hag ulties u and then press shrunken yes . But if you pop shrunken and hag ulties afterwards you u are getting the dot ( its not applied during the duration of the shrunken, but still stays there, and damage starts counting after the expiriation of the immune state)

Edited by doctornik
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Can tarot become her old self ,and put some skill cap on her. 
-Atm one of the stronger DPS  carries in the game, and the only thing u have to do is get 2 -3 items, mark someone and autoattack.

 -Old Tarot needed to mark someone and then hit another target so the hit will bounce to the marked on. So as you will get maximum damage output even if it required a bit of thinking do to so.
-Now everyone can play her with literally not a bit of skill reward. Maybe the only skill -wise thing on her ;is positioning, but this applies to all the carries i guess.

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Posted (edited)

She pretty much is her old self. W has been made to actually be good now if you attack the target you W'ed. The ultimate mechanics are really the only things that have changed & it didn't make sense on her before because you had to participate in kills early on, where carries are typically the weakest.

 

I mean, unless you want to somehow rework the ultimate to be a bit more "fair" - right now the numbers may be a little high, but she's been underperforming for quite some time & she's finally in more or less a good spot, statistically. Give me a suggestion where it's fair & scriptable & also doesn't drop her overall power level and then maybe it can be implemented.

Edited by ElementUser
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@ElementUser I didnt think anything else.As i kinda love the overall concept of the hero.Never crossed my mind to change the abilities of her.

Furthermore I dont want her numbers to be dropped. i actually  like the position Tarot is atm also.  The only thing that i thought to make her more `fair` was what i suggested above.
So as to get 100% damage output to be able to quick think during a fight. Mark someone, hit another.  But rather seing her numbers get nerfed ( as she already got a nerf last patch i think? )and put her in a bad position  i prefer nothing happens to her ?

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I think ElementUser comment is because you didn't mention a suggestion, you just described how it worked, which is not that different from now except that if you attack the marked hero, it also bounces. Is that the part you are complaining about?

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I think Tarot is fine as she is. Literally the definition of a glascannon hero. Sure he can be brutal sometimes with little farm, but she also dies to literally every hero without crits. She is also the fastest dying carry so yeah, she is fine i think.

A suggestion i would have for this Thread is:
Change Xemplar from Str to Agi???

Atm i don't rly understand the Hero. It feels like a carry, plays like a Ganker and is kinda a Mix out of Sand and TDL, but is a STR Hero. The Hero literally screams 'BUY GEOS' and Geos well, is an Agility Item. Keeping the Bulk of him as it is in early, but less STR gain per Level and more Agi gain and we would have another playable carry in the game, insteat of a weird hero without a role.

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Posted (edited)
22 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

It's based off of Chaos Knight from Dota, which is a Str hero that also uses illusions. 

 Well, because DotA does it, doesn't mean it's good, right? ? I totally forgot about the Hero in DotA to be honest. The concept of STR + Illus is just weird since that rather belongs to a carry imo. 

Checking his Overall Stats, his winquote is pretty solid (47/53), but his usage and Stats are just bad. (500 uses, 7/6.3/5.3 KDR, 300 average GPM). That kinda shows me people don't know how to position him. His KDR looks like he is a farmer, his GPM shows he is a Ganker / Tank, but his winquote shows he is still decent.

Dunno if im completely wrong about that hero, but as it stands now, him and Warchief are the only 2 heroes i totally don't understand rolewise. They are no Supports, no Carries, no Pushers, no Wooders, nothing really.

 

Edited by cobaye
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