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  1. 1. You are again stuck on a deserted island...

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Posted (edited)

His laning performance was buffed in my opinion, and for the first time in a long time I've been actually able to overpower or at least equalize Mid lane, I've also to my surprise been able to overpower an Electrician in mid lane and completely push him off the lane, forcing him to go jungle. That's something that didn't happen to me before.

The extra 15 damage makes the difference in last-hitting creeps with Q, and also providing an edge in harassing enemies. I'd even call it a "breakpoint" value.

I've seen his winrate rose to 47% but then dropped to 44% (now 43%) at the time I looked. 

 

I think his 1v1 performance is where it should be, not too weak and not too strong. Making the Q damage higher would just cause people to say "Adrena OP" in laning phase, so I think. (As in, from 80 to 100) It would make it too easy to completely out-harass enemy heroes, even strength heroes.

I think a significant boost at this point would be to his base attack speed rate, being a strength hero, it's quite slow. I think it would allow his transition from early to mid-late game to be more powerful and significant, hopefully allowing him to reach a stable 48-50% winrate

An alternative approach to that might be just removing the Q function of 2+ targets hit reduces cooldown to 2.25/1.5 and reduces manacost; and just making it a flat 2.5 second cooldown and cause it to drain 3/6/9/12 mana per target with a valid manapool hit, up to 40 mana drained to self. (The logic behind this is to strengthen his 1v1 performance in the laning phase and strengthen his farming power)

But I personally dislike the second option, I really think a boost to his base attack speed would create very, very interesting results.

Regarding base attack speed I'm talking about from 1.7 to 1.55. For comparison Magebane is 1.45.

Edited by Lunarios
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The same poll.... Oh dear.   Oh yeah, the regular Balance/Design subforum rules don't apply in this thread (but the global forum rules still do). You can chat about almost anything you want

I'd love to. I think the main frustration factor with Adrenaline was mitigated when the change to his Q cooldown occurred. He is no longer able to create large one-sided fights with a 3>2.25&g

Let's rock and roll with Adrenaline. I've suffered enough testing that previous design, time to reap the rewards. Just so it isn't lost on Discord, can we please let Adrenaline cast his W outside

From what I've seen recently, Adrenaline winrate stands on 49% win 51% lose. I think the reasoning behind it is that it took time for players to understand how to take advantage of Adrenaline's laning presence. 

I personally experienced an unusual scenario where I won alone a 1v2 lane with Adrenaline against a Cthulu+Demented Shaman combo in a Diamond-rank game.

 

I think there should be caution in buffing Adrenaline too much, as I think there's a very gentle breakpoint that Adrenaline is facing, and should one go beyond it, it could spike the winrate by ~5-10%.

I still am in favor of the base attack speed rate buff. I don't know how much it is favored by ElementUser however, as I do not know the end-goal he's aiming for - but I do know that I really love playing a semi-carry/carry Adrenaline 🙂

 

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Oops, sorry I didn't get back to you @Lunarios

 

The problem is that people don't play Adrenaline. He's one of the lowest played heroes now (which I'm okay with compared to what he was before), though I still want his play rate to be higher.

 

Here will be his changes for the next patch just so the average baseline is a little better for him:

 

Quote

Adrenaline

Shard Blast
- Base cooldown reduced from 3 seconds to 2.4 seconds.
- When 2 or more enemy heroes are hit, cooldown is now reduced by 0.6 seconds (instead of 0.75 seconds).
*Overall, Shard Blast's possible cooldown values are now reduced from 3/2.25/1.5 seconds to 2.4/1.8/1.2 seconds with respect to hitting 2 or more enemy heroes 0/1/2 times within the last 10 seconds.

Death's Halo
- Now also grants 5 Attack Speed per real hero inside Death's Halo (still 2x the value for enemy heroes).

_______________________________________________

It should make his performance even more consistent.

Edited by ElementUser
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Also @Sorais

Doctor Repulsor got more nerfs on Attack Range and Movement Speed. I know you & some others hate this hero, but it's important to remember that his identity is precisely because of how his ultimate works. I have the choice of making him more consistent, or giving him more blatant weaknesses in exchange for his powerful ultimate ability.

Hopefully he's more bearable by your standards. Speaking of which, other heroes you exclaimed "OP" in the past like Pebbles have not been faring so well lately.

Edited by ElementUser
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That's because you nerfed Pebbles. And DR is still at 55% win rate with Silhouette not far behind.

54CVwty.png

If they are more "bearable" it's because you gave everyone four bans, and I've been banning Peb/DR/Silh every single game. Pebbles is not so broken these days and there's an argument to not ban him, but I do not ever want to play against DR/Silh.

Edited by Sorais
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You know one thing I really hate? When people know something that others don't, and flaunt it. "Guess what my age is! I'm not telling you!" "I know what's in the next patch notes. Guess what's in them, I'll give you cryptic hints!" "I also know what Pebbles' win rate is, it's lower than you think, but I'm not telling you what it is!"

I know you know what the real stats are. If you don't want to share them then please do NOT bring up stats. I will not respond to any further guessing games.

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On 6/11/2021 at 10:57 PM, ElementUser said:

Oops, sorry I didn't get back to you @Lunarios

 

The problem is that people don't play Adrenaline. He's one of the lowest played heroes now (which I'm okay with compared to what he was before), though I still want his play rate to be higher.

 

Here will be his changes for the next patch just so the average baseline is a little better for him:

 

It should make his performance even more consistent.

Wow those changes look really impactful, and having Adrenaline as my #1 most played hero, I'm really excited about it.

 

Just a small experience I had regarding Ichor last game that I'd like to share - I tried playing Ichor in a few roles after the recent changes (Support, Mid-laner, sui/secondary support with farm); and I must say that during laning phase, Ichor is extremely powerful. He is one of the more dominant support heroes, only being overshadowed slightly by Martyr.

However, he is very item dependent, more so than other supports. That is why I did not enjoy playing him as a conservative Short Lane Support role. After the laning phase is over, he doesn't really have space to farm properly, and being a support my prime focus is warding - which doesn't really allow me to bank up the items I need. This creates a situation where during mid-late game, I feel absurdly useless - I die quickly, don't have a lot of impact, and I mostly just feel like a walking creep with an Astrolabe. It feels much better in general to play with more conservative supports in the short lane such as Witch Slayer/Martyr, where it is enough to simply have Striders/Grave Locket/PK+wards and you are set for the game, perhaps a Stormspirit or Sand Scepter in the end-game. 

Mid-lane was an interesting experience, since it is more easy to win with Ichor than with other heroes during the laning phase (due to his heavy harass potential). However, he lacks proper lockdown mechanics and farm mechanics, so you always have the feeling that "you have to do something, and a lot of it, or the enemy will be ahead". I think Mid lane has better heroes to fit that spot, i.e. Lord Salforis, Adrenaline, King Klout, Kane, Ellonia, Monkey King, etc.

I enjoyed Ichor most as a sui roamer/ganker. Spreading his impact around the map, counter-pressuring an enemy duo-long lane, ganking mid, really shows how much power Ichor has in the early stages of the game. After the dust settles, there is a time frame where there is enough space for Ichor to farm mid-range items that greatly boost his performance. I prefer Barrier Idol, Ultor's Heavy Helm (Even though it only has 50% effect on him, it is still unbelievably impactful when synergized with his natural+passive damage mitigation), and if the gods allow Behemoth's Heart. Once Ichor gets a hold of these items, he becomes truly unstoppable in terms of resilience during a teamfight, really putting his amazing skillset on a pedestal.

 

I don't have anything specific that I aim for, these are just my thoughts regarding Ichor. I personally enjoy the hero, but I think it's really important to pick the right spot for him, otherwise he feels very lackluster. I will probably only be playing him as a solo offlaner, or a farm-dependant duo-long laner. If there's a Strength based carry in the team, or heroes with a sufficient health pool that they don't get instantly burst down, it can get really crazy during teamfights.

 

Edited by Lunarios
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He's really durable such that he warranted a nerf next patch along with sac stone taking a tiny hit. 

All you really need on him is sac stone and then you can protect most heroes without much worry in the current patch. You're basically a reliable savior in both skirmishes and ganks. 

Next patch he'll still be able to do it, just with a little more item dependency. Not sure if you saw my post to acnowlegia in the patch discussion thread, but the hero is way too resilient with barely any items.

Edited by ElementUser
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I didn't see the post, but it's interesting because this isn't my experience with the hero. But then again, I usually have weird experiences with items/heroes, like when I said Sacrificial Stone is underwhelming (I still feel its underwhelming every time I use it/buy it), but I guess it's just me.

I'm still enjoying Ichor even if he will be nerfed, so I don't really have anything to say against it or for it 😄

Edited by Lunarios
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  • 1 month later...

@ElementUserIs it intended that Bramble Q does not trigger Nomad ulti?

I can understand that the channeling should not trigger Nomad ulti, but why the stun as well?

Probably Tempest is the only other hero that can stun without triggering Nomad ulti, but that is only achievable with his ulti.

I know that there are other types of spells that can bypass Nomad ulti, for example Adrenaline E, Flux R. But again, it's either an ultimate spell or Adrenaline, which is already a super 'balanced' hero on his own.

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Bramble's Q deals all DoT damage, and never deals an instance of non-DoT damage.

The stun application is not targeted, and it also does not do non-DoT damage.

It's working as intended, mechanically. Nomad's R does not trigger on DoT damage.

Edited by ElementUser
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33 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

Bramble's Q deals all DoT damage, and never deals an instance of non-DoT damage.

The stun application is not targeted, and it also does not do non-DoT damage.

It's working as intended, mechanically. Nomad's R does not trigger on DoT damage.

The hero description said “attack and spell” so it wasnt clear.

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  • 1 month later...

I have a balance suggestion regarding hatchet. Don't know if it is something that can be implemented, but I think that making hatchet shareable could improve the situation of melee supports. In a good game, mid or safe lane carry will be able to leave theirs around the 10 min mark, and giving it to their supports, specially melee ones can contribute both to their farm pace and in utility aspects around the map (for dewarding, cutting trees, breaking enemy gadgets, etc).

 

While I think making it a shareable item from the start would be preferrable, I get that it can lead both to balance and cooperation issues (supports giving hatchet for free in organized games, or teammates raging for not getting one in pubs). Maybe it could become a shareable item after the 5 min mark, but this is what I'm not sure if it is possible to code under the current mechanics.

 

Should I open a post for this balance suggestion?

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44 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

I don't think they'll do that. They value their farm speed too much if they auto

Yes, but sometimes the mid gets one, and it is usually one that can also farm with spells. Sooner or later they will get ride of the hatchet and there are always escenarios in which that item would have been useful for any of the lower team positions imo.

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In dota 2, Homecoming stone have separated slot and when you buy Boots of Travel, it's upgrade your homecoming stone and allow it to teleport to creep. And it give free one stone each time you dead

I think it's very nice idea to use in HoN ? There ward also require one slot to use

Also there are total 3 portal Key upgrate but i didnt see anyone use it

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Devourer still overpowered.

On 6/13/2021 at 5:14 PM, Sorais said:

 

You know one thing I really hate? When people know something that others don't, and flaunt it. "Guess what my age is! I'm not telling you!" "I know what's in the next patch notes. Guess what's in them, I'll give you cryptic hints!" "I also know what Pebbles' win rate is, it's lower than you think, but I'm not telling you what it is!"

I know you know what the real stats are. If you don't want to share them then please do NOT bring up stats. I will not respond to any further guessing games.

 

Devo still have 70% wr, but its secret. 

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13 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Not happening. Post Haste & Pegasus Boots are very powerful items to have.

I think it is interesting stuff for a poor person like me who spent all the gold i have to buy ward and homecoming stone 😞 

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1 hour ago, w3wstarboy said:

I think it is interesting stuff for a poor person like me who spent all the gold i have to buy ward and homecoming stone 😞 

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Still, that thing feels awkward to me because of the button (minor issue the more I think) and player still has to spend gold to teleport.

Homecoming stone on death is interesting because it could save 50 gold (75 gold if it is sellable). 

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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