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Please bring back the old SpellShards !


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3 hours ago, Hubaris said:

Anecdotal evidence but honestly as Pebbles you're better off getting Staff (for Mana and the triple toss utility) or Daemonic (to see your enemies driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women).

Pebbles very rarely needs Spellshards anyway because he's usually played with a level lead and has enough damage to wipe a good portion of the cast anyway. Seems a little redundant.

Previously it was okay cause it gave good Mana pool/Regen and it was quick. Yes staff is better but it takes longer to build. Now it's better to go staff over spellshards. Personally I wouldn't go spellshards at all but you can clear waves with spellshards before. Without it, pebbles couldn't clear creep waves with the Q and W combo. 

Edited by Whyzozerious
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2 hours ago, WayTooCooI said:

not gonna play anymore until they buff spellshards. ridiculous all i can say.

Aren't you being a bit overdramatic? You can't deny the fact that spellshards was indeed quite strong for it's cost. With you being a mid wars player, sounds like you can't cheese people with ridiculous damage now since you farm heroes instead of creeps. Sounds to me like you need to get good and expand your hero pool choices instead of spamming int heroes.

You can get angry all you want, won't change the fact that spellshards needed a nerf. Could it be buff in the future? Sure but the only thing that would get buffed is the cost if anything.

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40 minutes ago, Whyzozerious said:

Aren't you being a bit overdramatic? You can't deny the fact that spellshards was indeed quite strong for it's cost. With you being a mid wars player, sounds like you can't cheese people with ridiculous damage now since you farm heroes instead of creeps. Sounds to me like you need to get good and expand your hero pool choices instead of spamming int heroes.

You can get angry all you want, won't change the fact that spellshards needed a nerf. Could it be buff in the future? Sure but the only thing that would get buffed is the cost if anything.

A part of me really wanted to open a thread with a poll asking about the reception of the change (Like / Dislike / Neutral) with what you normally play (FoC / MW / Either).

Maybe I'll do that.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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50 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

A part of me really wanted to open a thread with a poll asking about the reception of the change (Like / Dislike / Neutral) with what you normally play (FoC / MW / Either).

Maybe I'll do that.

Why? You won't get much data out of that. The balance will always revolve around Forest of Caldavar. Getting a # of players who play midwars and have them tell you their opinion on spell shards is almost pointless cause majority will say "i hate it" cause I can't buy it as conveniently as I used to cause I don't have much farm to work with to upgrade it to level 3 in a mid wars game. A handful of players complaining about spellshards in Mid Wars isn't convincing enough to make a drastic change to the item. Again, the only change that they can do is probably buff the cost of the recipe by a bit and it might be in a better spot.

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8 minutes ago, Whyzozerious said:

Why? You won't get much data out of that. The balance will always revolve around Forest of Caldavar. Getting a # of players who play midwars and have them tell you their opinion on spell shards is almost pointless cause majority will say "i hate it" cause I can't buy it as conveniently as I used to cause I don't have much farm to work with to upgrade it to level 3 in a mid wars game. A handful of players complaining about spellshards in Mid Wars isn't convincing enough to make a drastic change to the item. Again, the only change that they can do is probably buff the cost of the recipe by a bit and it might be in a better spot.

Colour me curious.

Besides I like understanding the community and their thought process.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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17 minutes ago, Whyzozerious said:

Why? You won't get much data out of that. The balance will always revolve around Forest of Caldavar. Getting a # of players who play midwars and have them tell you their opinion on spell shards is almost pointless cause majority will say "i hate it" cause I can't buy it as conveniently as I used to cause I don't have much farm to work with to upgrade it to level 3 in a mid wars game. A handful of players complaining about spellshards in Mid Wars isn't convincing enough to make a drastic change to the item. Again, the only change that they can do is probably buff the cost of the recipe by a bit and it might be in a better spot.

who is midwar player? i dont play midwar btw.

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On 6/11/2020 at 10:29 PM, WayTooCooI said:

not gonna play anymore until they buff spellshards. ridiculous all i can say.

if thats how you handle life i'm shocked at the fact you still breathe...

but seriously, just because one item now is not as broken anymore as it used to be (not just even on spellcasters, if you got a mock or codex as a physical carry and added spellshards you still went above and beyond which is just more than any fucking item should ever do) you throw a tantrum and act tho as if someone took away your lollipop and sent you to bed early. like what the hell dude.

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On 6/12/2020 at 3:08 AM, Whyzozerious said:

Why? You won't get much data out of that. The balance will always revolve around Forest of Caldavar. Getting a # of players who play midwars and have them tell you their opinion on spell shards is almost pointless cause majority will say "i hate it" cause I can't buy it as conveniently as I used to cause I don't have much farm to work with to upgrade it to level 3 in a mid wars game. A handful of players complaining about spellshards in Mid Wars isn't convincing enough to make a drastic change to the item. Again, the only change that they can do is probably buff the cost of the recipe by a bit and it might be in a better spot.

I like how you basically exactly hit what would happen with the poll ? 

 

Rn 4 players voted for "playing MW" (against 41 for Foc) and majority indeed is saying they hate it. Which imho is mostly due to simple reasons which make this poll pretty biased: People hate change, people hate to adjust, people love to complain and hate to praise.

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On 6/11/2020 at 4:51 AM, Hubaris said:

Starting Magic Armor for people is what? About a 25% reduction?  I think its 24.8 but I can't care enough to be that accurate.

The old Spellshards reduced them by 65%. You would effectively make their Magic Armor 8.75% reduction instead. That is a net change of 16.25% damage for a 2.5k~ ish item.

This doesn't take into account anything else, lets see here:

Old Spellshards

Type MA (in %)        EMA%                   Amp%
Base 25 8.75 16.25
Vestments 37.5 13.125 24.375
Shaman's 48.1 16.835

31.265

  • MA is you Magic Armor in a %.
  • EMA% is your effective Magic Armor versus Spellshards.
  • Amp% is how much the Spellshards user gets in 'bonus' damage.

For a tiny amount of gold you were able to increase your total magic damage by 16.25 / 24.375 / 31.265%. That is an obscene amount of damage amplification for an item that barely cost a little more than a core initiator item (Portal Key), or a Shieldbreaker. Spellshards ripped through Shaman's Headdress (up until Nome's), the only way to get more Magic Armor. On the bright side, the item is now cheaper which means you can get your initial investment earlier, capitalize on it earlier, and get the stats earlier.

Spellshards were overbuffed and people were spoiled with them, they are back to a spot where they shouldn't completely make someone's choice to grab Shaman's irrelevant. Which begs the question, why can't it just be a -2 / -3 / -4 Magic Armor on spell cast instead? Why should a person with Shaman's get punished for buying better magic armor? Why not just get a Vest and call it a day? 

Armor of the mad mage also does 21.9% Spell Damage against non-hero units and it does more magic damage if enermy has no Shaman's or Mysitc vestments.

But it does less damage when  enermy has Shaman's. The designer of the game clearly made spellshards  for counter shaman's .But lets have a look.

Savage Mace cost 4800 to counter  Wingbow which cost 5700. Spellshards cost 3800 to counter Shaman's which cost only 2050?

If you say Spell does Spell Damage against non-hero units which helps u farm faster, but Armor of the mad mage also does.

Hero with only one magic aoe skill spellshards doesnt help you farm faster ! It only does to hero which has 2 magic aoe skill ( like bubbles pyro tourt etc ).

Strength hero usualy buys Shaman's, how many strength hero on enermy team? do you really need a spellshards if its so expensive?

Do you really want to pay 3800 just for  countering maybe one or two hero ( most time one hero ) which has shaman's?

Edited by WayTooCooI
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On 6/14/2020 at 6:24 PM, Manu311 said:

I like how you basically exactly hit what would happen with the poll ? 

 

Rn 4 players voted for "playing MW" (against 41 for Foc) and majority indeed is saying they hate it. Which imho is mostly due to simple reasons which make this poll pretty biased: People hate change, people hate to adjust, people love to complain and hate to praise.

people not hate change. people hate imbalance.

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2 minutes ago, WayTooCooI said:

people not hate change. people hate imbalance.

Both actually.
But only few are able to identify imbalance, everyone is able to see change.
 

Spoiler

workflow.png

 

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Shards were OP, anyone complaining was just using them as a crutch. You can still farm waves with bubbles Q+W combo in one shot. You shouldnt be getting shards as that hero anyway. Getting a EULS or Tablet to help your carry is a much better choice. no more PEW PEW.

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22 hours ago, Chianti said:

Long as I dont gotta see them on flints anymore, game is already ruined enough.

i like the new spellshards change, but  last patch was the first and only time flint was a legit hero pick in tmm

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Finally the stupid FB Build is gone. It's a goddamn carry hero that abused Spellshards on the cheapest way possible. Just being visioned anywhere in the Map and an Ult hits you, and takes away 70% of your HP, how is that even fun. If he follows up with Flare, most of the Heroes die 1 Shot.  Literally every time you played against a Flint with Spellshards he did most Hero DMG just with that item only. Why should the hero with the longest Range ingame should have a super Short CD, long Range Witch Slayer Ulti, when holding Spellshards.

I'm so glad it's gone. Now Flints can go the old way with Thunderclaw and actual carryitems.

Edited by cobaye
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