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Please bring back the old SpellShards !


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Please bring the old SpellShards back ! The game isnt fun now becoz the nerf on spellshards is too much ( i play int hero mostly ), no points to buying it anymore. maybe everyone should just buy codex instead.

Edited by zip1122
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Starting Magic Armor for people is what? About a 25% reduction?  I think its 24.8 but I can't care enough to be that accurate.

The old Spellshards reduced them by 65%. You would effectively make their Magic Armor 8.75% reduction instead. That is a net change of 16.25% damage for a 2.5k~ ish item.

This doesn't take into account anything else, lets see here:

Old Spellshards

Type MA (in %)        EMA%                   Amp%
Base 25 8.75 16.25
Vestments 37.5 13.125 24.375
Shaman's 48.1 16.835

31.265

  • MA is you Magic Armor in a %.
  • EMA% is your effective Magic Armor versus Spellshards.
  • Amp% is how much the Spellshards user gets in 'bonus' damage.

For a tiny amount of gold you were able to increase your total magic damage by 16.25 / 24.375 / 31.265%. That is an obscene amount of damage amplification for an item that barely cost a little more than a core initiator item (Portal Key), or a Shieldbreaker. Spellshards ripped through Shaman's Headdress (up until Nome's), the only way to get more Magic Armor. On the bright side, the item is now cheaper which means you can get your initial investment earlier, capitalize on it earlier, and get the stats earlier.

Spellshards were overbuffed and people were spoiled with them, they are back to a spot where they shouldn't completely make someone's choice to grab Shaman's irrelevant. Which begs the question, why can't it just be a -2 / -3 / -4 Magic Armor on spell cast instead? Why should a person with Shaman's get punished for buying better magic armor? Why not just get a Vest and call it a day? 

Edited by Hubaris
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I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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8 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

Starting Magic Armor for people is what? About a 25% reduction?  I think its 24.8 but I can't care enough to be that accurate.

The old Spellshards reduced them by 65%. You would effectively make their Magic Armor 8.75% reduction instead. That is a net change of 16.25% damage for a 2.5k~ ish item.

This doesn't take into account anything else, lets see here:

Old Spellshards

Type MA (in %)        EMA%                   Amp%
Base 25 8.75 16.25
Vestments 37.5 13.125 24.375
Shaman's 48.1 16.835

31.265

  • MA is you Magic Armor in a %.
  • EMA% is your effective Magic Armor versus Spellshards.
  • Amp% is how much the Spellshards user gets in 'bonus' damage.

For a tiny amount of gold you were able to increase your total magic damage by 16.25 / 24.375 / 31.265%. That is an obscene amount of damage amplification for an item that barely cost a little more than a core initiator item (Portal Key), or a Shieldbreaker. Spellshards ripped through Shaman's Headdress (up until Nome's), the only way to get more Magic Armor. On the bright side, the item is now cheaper which means you can get your initial investment earlier, capitalize on it earlier, and get the stats earlier.

Spellshards were overbuffed and people were spoiled with them, they are back to a spot where they shouldn't completely make someone's choice to grab Shaman's irrelevant. Which begs the question, why can't it just be a -2 / -3 / -4 Magic Armor on spell cast instead? Why should a person with Shaman's get punished for buying better magic armor? Why not just get a Vest and call it a day? 

You're talking as if the old spell shards used to make shamans useless? first of all, shamans was only 2k which made spell shards useless (not the other way around imo. Also, the old spell shards took away 60% not 65. The item is actually worse than it was at 2.5k) I'm not saying it didn't need a nurf, but making a 2.5 k item now worth 4k??? that's a tad ridiculous. That said, I do like the idea of -3.5 -4.5 -5.5.

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My mistake with the 65, the Wiki is a little out of date (still has unique magic armor per hero). Doesn't change a huge amount though.

Spellshards absolutely made Headdress worse. You lost more. You invested more for less. It was actually a really bad play to buy Shaman's unless you intended on getting Barrier.

You effectively spent 1500 to get a 3% effective boost over Mystic Vestments. That to me sounds like a completely garbage deal.

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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18 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

My mistake with the 65, the Wiki is a little out of date (still has unique magic armor per hero). Doesn't change a huge amount though.

Spellshards absolutely made Headdress worse. You lost more. You invested more for less. It was actually a really bad play to buy Shaman's unless you intended on getting Barrier.

You effectively spent 1500 to get a 3% effective boost over Mystic Vestments. That to me sounds like a completely garbage deal.

becoz Shaman's is everywhere and its cheaper , that is why we need  a item to counter it.

Edited by WayTooCooI
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Let me ask you all the question:

Why? Why should there be an Item that counters Shaman's so cheaply? (I know Mad Mage and Harkon's exist)

Better yet, why do you feel that heroes who are meant to be strong early are meant to be strong all game?

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I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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33 minutes ago, Sky said:

 

You're talking as if the old spell shards used to make shamans useless? first of all, shamans was only 2k which made spell shards useless (not the other way around imo. Also, the old spell shards took away 60% not 65. The item is actually worse than it was at 2.5k) I'm not saying it didn't need a nurf, but making a 2.5 k item now worth 4k??? that's a tad ridiculous. That said, I do like the idea of -3.5 -4.5 -5.5.

@Hubaris its was 65%  you were not wrong.. before the nerf i made a specific post also explaining how cost effective buying spellshards  was ( from magic armor reduction to flash farming efficiency, how its was making specific mid heroes i.e Bubbles , to flash farm and ur carry was getting a weaker farming item for 2,9k. etc etc)and how it completly nullified shamans.
People complaining about this ``nerf`` just cant understand properly the game. And also its cheaper now atm, so u get the stats earlier in a way. That was a perfect balance of the item.
 

Edited by doctornik
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4 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

Let me ask you all the question:

Why? Why should there be an Item that counters Shaman's so cheaply? (I know Mad Mage and Harkon's exist)

Better yet, why do you feel that heroes who are meant to be strong early are meant to be strong all game?

becoz 2575 was more expensive than 2050. becoz Shaman's is too cheap and too good.

which hero?

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Just now, WayTooCooI said:

becoz 2575 was more expensive than 2050. becoz Shaman's is too cheap and too good.

which hero?

Shaman's is a limiting factor in the game. The game was balanced around Shaman's Headdress from some of the earliest patches of DotA. There are plenty of ways to decrease magic armor but very few ways to actually increase it. Besides, why should Spellshards be cheaper and more effective than Armor of the Mad Mage, a 4200 gold item?

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I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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23 minutes ago, doctornik said:

@Hubaris its was 65%  you were not wrong.. before the nerf i made a specific post also explaining how cost effective buying spellshards  was ( from magic armor reduction to flash farming efficiency, how its was making specific mid heroes i.e Bubbles , to flash farm and ur carry was getting a weaker farming item for 2,9k. etc etc)and how it completly nullified shamans.
People complaining about this ``nerf`` just cant understand properly the game. And also its cheaper now atm, so u get the stats earlier in a way. That was a perfect balance of the item.
 

how do you know "we" cant understand properly the game? 

PERPETUAL COGWHEEL which cost 1325 is not "cheap" than 450+325+800, becoz u die sometimes and u lost money and you dont get the stats earlier in another way.

and which weaker farming item for 2,9k?

Edited by WayTooCooI
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40 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

Shaman's is a limiting factor in the game. The game was balanced around Shaman's Headdress from some of the earliest patches of DotA. There are plenty of ways to decrease magic armor but very few ways to actually increase it. Besides, why should Spellshards be cheaper and more effective than Armor of the Mad Mage, a 4200 gold item?

There are plenty of ways to decrease magic armor but very few ways to actually increase it.  :

becoz you can only do limited magic skills but unlimited autoattacks.thats why magic armor do not stack.

why should Spellshards be cheaper and more effective than Armor of the Mad Mage, a 4200 gold item? :

becoz it grant yourself 60 Armor that tapers off over 6 seconds as it says and the - magic armor effect is an aura meanning it does to everyone from ur team.

 

Edited by WayTooCooI
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I appreciate the lively chat but unless you have numbers to back things up it's just going to be a back and forth opinion tennis.

Heroes with magic damage generally taper off, consider it a blessing that there are a plethora of items to help nuking heroes scale into the late game.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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22 hours ago, Sky said:

Maybe make the recipe cost something more reasonable? maybe 500 instead of 825? 1500 increase for a lesser item is a massssssive nerf to spell shards.

yes , FB reduce the recipe cost pls. imo 625 is decent.

Edited by WayTooCooI
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4 hours ago, doctornik said:

@Hubaris its was 65%  you were not wrong.. before the nerf i made a specific post also explaining how cost effective buying spellshards  was ( from magic armor reduction to flash farming efficiency, how its was making specific mid heroes i.e Bubbles , to flash farm and ur carry was getting a weaker farming item for 2,9k. etc etc)and how it completly nullified shamans.
People complaining about this ``nerf`` just cant understand properly the game. And also its cheaper now atm, so u get the stats earlier in a way. That was a perfect balance of the item.
 

@doctornikYou're a silver player, so i'm not sure why YOU think other people have a lack of understanding of the game simply because they don't agree with you. Also you don't get "stats" earlier, you get nothing but mana regen, for 13** gold, rather than, attack speed, damage, mana regen and intelligence gain for 1575.
Did spell shards need a nerf, sure, but making a lesser item for 1500 more gold is a bit ridiculous. The old spell shards was kept relatively the same for a loooooooooong time with not a single in game complaint.
Im no fortune teller, but I imagine intelligence hero picks will dramatically drop in the 1400-1699 brackets. Intelligence hero win rates have already dropped significantly over the last week.

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10 minutes ago, zip1122 said:

its trash now no one would buy it.

just played 2 games pyro and bubbles, spellshards is totally useless now. hard to get early and expensive much more. the reality is that the 10% Spell Damage against non-hero units doesnt help u farm faster at all.  my game is ruined so hard becoz the nerf of spellshards .becoz i play only mid int heroes. GG FB.

Edited by WayTooCooI
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I do agree that spellshard cost is a bit high for what you don't previously get but I think it's in a better spot now. If you play heroes like pyro that has good flash farming spells, upgrading it to level 3 is not a big deal. You could get it within a reasonable amount of time too.

Some people here should not ignore the fact that for what it was worth, it was quite strong. Hubaris's stats seems pretty accurate to me so I don't know why people are judging it. It's still a good item for heroes who can't clear creep waves instantly like pebbles.

Sounds to me like people here can't burst down someone the same way they used to so now they feel the need to complain about not feeling overpowered with one item. ?

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39 minutes ago, Whyzozerious said:

I do agree that spellshard cost is a bit high for what you don't previously get but I think it's in a better spot now. If you play heroes like pyro that has good flash farming spells, upgrading it to level 3 is not a big deal. You could get it within a reasonable amount of time too.

Some people here should not ignore the fact that for what it was worth, it was quite strong. Hubaris's stats seems pretty accurate to me so I don't know why people are judging it. It's still a good item for heroes who can't clear creep waves instantly like pebbles.

Sounds to me like people here can't burst down someone the same way they used to so now they feel the need to complain about not feeling overpowered with one item. ?

sry , a peb player just told me he wont get spellshards anymore .

Edited by WayTooCooI
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Anecdotal evidence but honestly as Pebbles you're better off getting Staff (for Mana and the triple toss utility) or Daemonic (to see your enemies driven before you and hear the lamentations of their women).

Pebbles very rarely needs Spellshards anyway because he's usually played with a level lead and has enough damage to wipe a good portion of the cast anyway. Seems a little redundant.

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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