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What would you like to see addressed in Midwars?


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On 8/28/2020 at 2:26 AM, CuysauruS said:

Make 5-4 players queues wait till they find another 5-4 player queue. Thanks.

I know a lot of players complain about this and so have I in the past. The reason for the 1900-2k mmr big groups is simply there aren't enough players in the high ranks.

Once you get about 1850 and higher you usually get +-0.4 mmr/ game. This is because too much mmr difference and I agree a 1950 player shouldn't get +5 mmr for beating 1500 players. 

Mm tries to make matchups as even as possible but can be frustrating if there aren't enough players at your level. It's not uncommon if a 1900 enters the q solo the teams will be the 1900 and 4 15-1600 players vs 5 17-1800 players. It's not impossible but you can imagine what's going to happen.

Usually the only games high players get more than 2 mmr is if it's against another high group so the goal is not playing vs 5 1400 for 0 mmr.

Or they are just friends and like playing together.

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I'd like to see more of the funny old quirks that would last a patch or so. The neutral creeps running through middle was a personal favourite and the snowball boss was pretty fun too.

Handle FoC? There is strange legitimacy of the claim that FoC players and FoC is some kind superior over midwar. From my perspective midwar should be main mode and it is future of moba. I play mw beca

100% true. In FoC u need to wait and fight the boredom and must figure out how not to fall into sleep. In Midwars you need to know the heroes and the skillset and react quickly and with brai

Worst scenario which is ironically pretty common is something like 1900 1650 1500 1200 1400 vs  1700 1600 1600 1500 1500

Helborn will win because legion has 2 trolls. 1900 will be ok. -0.4. No bother too much... but..   What happens with innocent 1650? He is punished -5.

There should be algorithm which decreases punishment points not only for 1900 but 1650 too if team has significant troll. I had to play with ppl like 1000 mmr 1100 or 1200. There should be some spread limit. 

 

 

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On 8/28/2020 at 10:37 PM, VaYha said:

Respawn time for T1 down is enough now. It's much more harder to come back after patch anyway. if you increase this penalty, attacking team will snowball after they get T1.  Your point of view is point of winning side. We don't want T1wars but midwars. Some heroes have advantage on river so it's good for other heroes and strategy not to make game only about T1. Let teams feel they fight for more than T1. You don't want easy wins. Increasing penalty time will affect picking les variety heroes. Time is one factor but passive exp which is hold during death time is another hidden penalty. Even now late carries feel weaker and it's much more easier to win by power skills/aoe heroes... game is more oriented on taking T1 asap which is good. I was against last changes before release but now game is better and feel balanced enough. Sometimes enough is enough. You don't want to pass this point and make game to easy after T1 with no chance for comeback and making autoattack carries useless picks. 

I'm writing specifically to you Sorais because you are listened by ElementUser and we don't want another advice which will bring another catastrophe for midwars. I respect you because you have same intention as mine.. making mw better and better. Problem is that top players like you don't represent majority of mw community. What want to say is... If top players would design games they wouldn't be playable for average players. There is some kind of pleasure to play 25lvl carry with perfect inventory. Don't make mw for early tower pushers teams only. 

I'm not suggesting the penalty be increased, I was just pointing out it has barely any impact right now. Yes it becomes harder to comeback if the penalty for losing T1 tower is increased. So it's a tradeoff. As I wrote I've not seen much turtling for a while, so it feels like the penalty does not need to be increased, but I am not sure if I see less turtling because it's less viable now, or because I've not been 5qing.

I certainly would not say late carries feel weaker. Games scale into late-game much more now compared to five years ago. Heroes such as Torturer have gotten significantly weaker relative to the competition because they scale so badly. Sure, your 6-slotted carry can no longer solo the enemy team, but you are much more likely to get to the point where your hero is useful.

It might be fun to play a 6-slotted level 25 carry with multiple Corrupted Swords, but it's not fun to play against these heroes unless you are also on a carry - you'll be spending a lot of the rest of the game dead.

Also EU doesn't always listen to me -_-

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13 hours ago, SupaPowaXXL said:

I know a lot of players complain about this and so have I in the past ... and like playing together.

I would like to suggest match 4-5 queues vs 4-5 queues. It doesn't matter their mmr! In fact, most of those so called "1900 mmr midwars warriors" have less than 1600 mmr in caldavar.

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22 minutes ago, CuysauruS said:

most of those so called "1900 mmr midwars warriors" have less than 1600 mmr in caldavar.

It's a different skillset...

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Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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2 hours ago, MacroHard said:

It's a different skillset...

100% true.

In FoC u need to wait and fight the boredom and must figure out how not to fall into sleep.

In Midwars you need to know the heroes and the skillset and react quickly and with brain.

 

So my suggestion would be Let All players Ban 3 Heroes and show what all have banned or 

get some balancing for Midwars only on some heroes. Some are just unbalanced gamebreakers.

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By the way:

- Main Base Structure's Health Regeneration per second reduced from 50 to 20 (when not damaged by an enemy within the last 10 seconds).

+ This change partially addresses the frustration of getting the base to a low Health value, only to see it regenerate to full Health too quickly.

This change is silly. All this change does is increase the frustration that comes with knowing you have lost the game (because the throne is at too low HP), but the throne hasn't actually gone down. If the reason given here really is what the change is about, imagine Kongor health regen getting reduced to "partially address the frustration of getting Kongor to a low Health value, only to see it fully regenerate to full Health too quickly", because that's what this change does. Next time don't go for the throne kill unless you have the damage to kill it.

Also if this is because of "difficulty in ending game", which I have a suspicion it is about, let me spell out how to end the game:

1) Kill Zorg/Trans.
2) Don't pick up power rune until your creep wave is approaching the throne.
3) Buy lots of rev wards (and preferably sight wards) before approaching the throne. Use to kill their vision.
4) Don't initiate. Hit the throne, preferably with tanky and/or ranged heroes. Hold all your initiation (that means heroes like Behemoth, Magmus, Deadwood, Moraxus, Pharaoh, etc, should NOT go and hit the throne).
5) Opponents must initiate or throne dies. They can only initiate on tanky/solo heroes because they can't see anyone else. Counter their initiation, wipe them, and win the game.

All this assumes you don't have the patience to slowly outfarm the opposing team (remember neutrals are buffed now).

Hell you might even be able to end game now without resorting to this kind of tactic, simply because heroes take longer to respawn.

tl; dr: no positive impact, some negative impact. Revert this change.

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So much Heroes that need to be banned now u can never ban all and every game sucks,

because there is a Tarot, a Sapphire, a Predator, or one of the other 15 Heroes that are much to OP and unbalanced in Midwars in every game u start. If u get more OP heroes in your Team u have Won, if the other team has more they have won.

This game has 300 Heroes or so, but in Midwars i only see the same 20 + those that are only a meal for them in the end.

Give me Just a Midwars mode where every player can Ban 5 Heroes, or make the unbalanced Heroes Autoban if you refuse to balance them for the 2 Game modes. No matter what u do, something needs to change. Today i gave u some money, use it not just for FoC please.

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Just emptying my mind here before bedtime.

Thoughts on making it possible to pick the same heroes on both teams? Only bans will remove the possibility of playing a certain hero on either team.

This could follow the suggestion of giving players more bans.

 

Also, how about giving both teams the ability to vote for a ban on either columns or rows of heroes. If both sides have given their votes to the same row/column, then those heroes are banned.  if none of them matches, then no additional heroes will be banned.

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23 hours ago, Lifewaster said:

So much Heroes that need to be banned now u can never ban all and every game sucks,

because there is a Tarot, a Sapphire, a Predator, or one of the other 15 Heroes that are much to OP and unbalanced in Midwars in every game u start. If u get more OP heroes in your Team u have Won, if the other team has more they have won.

This game has 300 Heroes or so, but in Midwars i only see the same 20 + those that are only a meal for them in the end.

Give me Just a Midwars mode where every player can Ban 5 Heroes, or make the unbalanced Heroes Autoban if you refuse to balance them for the 2 Game modes. No matter what u do, something needs to change. Today i gave u some money, use it not just for FoC please.

Honestly very few heroes are op in midwars and none of the ones you mentioned are, players just dont know how to counter them efficiantly. The heroes who are most frequently banned in high level games are:

Hookers: just in case because they might give a lucky advantage early.

Vindicator: global silence, aoe silence and aoe disarm. Probably one of the best heroes in mw.

DR and Paralax: they can be dealt with but they are just a pain.

Accursed: probably the best support.

MW is much more team oriented. Astro, Nomes, Bola and Sandscepter are great items and I hardly ever see sand in lower mmr games. I'm trying to say "git gud" and stop complaining about silly things in a nice way, not just to the guy who's post i quoted. Please realize that playing a great sup (accu, rhap, pearl, emp) and boosting your own carry while countering theirs is usually much better than picking a second carry. 

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Agreed. After 6500 mw games I can tell. Mw is more about people skills than heroes. My favourite game was playing  predator with full inventory vs pearl who taught me that I'm nothing. Some dude kited me so smoothly that it was funny even for me. I've seen guys playing rhapsody like that too. 

Now there is many ways to win mw. Early towers push or crowd control parties or heal parties.. few days ago I've seen fast port party like behe midas magmus hag. Untouchable and snowballing. Mw is not about flint or tarot. 

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People skills don't matter when the picks are shadowpicks and you learn that u need a specific hero to counter 

just after the game has started. Also there are a lot of OP Heroes, if you refuse to see it, i can't help you but there is just no breaking a Armadon, Ichor, Deadlift, Accursed max level all items they need?

Tell me how u wanna survive against a Tarot, flint, MoA, Sapphire, Predator max Level with all items they need?

You should not forget, you not always play with 4 profigamers in your team, mostly with FoC guys who can't adapt to the fast paced game style.

wile anyone can bring annihilation with the OP heroes, even those guys, as i mentioned those who got more win.

But i don't wanna see even more of those, or two Flints, Devourers please no.

Just give us a opportunity to ban all OP Heroes. Lets make HoN Great again, give us back Midwars games with heroes that are not the

20 usual subjects.

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18 hours ago, Lifewaster said:

People skills don't matter when the picks are shadowpicks and you learn that u need a specific hero to counter 

just after the game has started. Also there are a lot of OP Heroes, if you refuse to see it, i can't help you but there is just no breaking a Armadon, Ichor, Deadlift, Accursed max level all items they need?

Tell me how u wanna survive against a Tarot, flint, MoA, Sapphire, Predator max Level with all items they need?

You should not forget, you not always play with 4 profigamers in your team, mostly with FoC guys who can't adapt to the fast paced game style.

wile anyone can bring annihilation with the OP heroes, even those guys, as i mentioned those who got more win.

But i don't wanna see even more of those, or two Flints, Devourers please no.

Just give us a opportunity to ban all OP Heroes. Lets make HoN Great again, give us back Midwars games with heroes that are not the

20 usual subjects.

Seriously? Are you seriously asking how to beat Tarot Flint MoA Sapphire Predator with max level and all items? The question is so bad I'm tempted to answer "6 Wildsouls with max level and 12 items" or "Bramble with 1000 hero kills, you can one-shot them all".

They picked an ALL CARRY LINEUP. You win by not letting them get into the extreme late game. How much more obvious does that get? Hell, they're even heavily handicapped until 5+ items simply because they have no good initiation, no support, no AoE ultimates, etc. They could be up kills and still lose (that just happened to me, by the way - I solo queued and wound up in a Tarot Calamity FA MoA Gladiator lineup, and we lost in spite of being up kills). 

And the thing about all these OP heroes you're referring to: you can pick them too you know. You tell me who wins a game where one side has Tarot Flint and the other has MoA Sapphire (this is a rhetorical question by the way, I don't consider all five of the heroes you listed OP).

Skill is the first cut in MW. Yes, given equal skill lineups play a huge role, but I'll take good players with bad heroes over bad players with good heroes any day of the week. If you are losing to heroes as bad as Predator (??) and calling it an OP hero, you should take a hard look at your personal skill. 

Finally: MW currently has 20 bans. This is already borderline too many - it's rare that one gets to play heroes like Devourer. Under no circumstances should MW have so many bans that ALL the heroes you mention are banned. Remember, MW players want to use their avatars too, and there're few things more frustrating than buying an avatar for a hero that never survives the ban phase.

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Wow you live in a dreamworld where everyone bans the right heroes, 

and your team plays perfect so no enemy can reach a high level or get items.

Wish i would have those drugs. But the reality is not what u are talking about here.

The reality is that u get stupid team members that ban ophelia or wildsoul and that feed

until the enemy is maxed out. This is reality, this is what we have to deal with.

 

PS: If you buy a Avatar and wanna use it just play FoC or a midwars mode where no heroes get banned 

like singel draft. 

Also it seems like the Members of the Forum that are not Staff think they are the ELITE, thats sad.

Edited by Lifewaster
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We could use a lot less bans, i can't remember the last time i got to play devourer because people always ban him.... 

We all know there is only one problem with midwars: feeding teammates. I don't care about losing, I care about some guy in my team who just obviously ruins the fun in the game. And i'm not talking about the guys who do this on purpose, im talking about the people who don't notice they are making their team lose because they die EVERY MINUTE. Mind you, this is with 1800+ games, so you would expect people to know that. 

 

Biggest reason: I'm tank so I can die (3-11-4) scores. Yes, I'm frustrate by this phenomenon, I like to play healers so watching teammates rush in like rambo really grinds my gears.   

 

Btw: something I noticed is that people who use voice chat to talk about the game, makes the whole team more serious. 

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If you mentioned high mmr bracket feeding which is uncommon, there are few explanations. 

Guy is feeding on purpose and you can't do anything with that. Fb, hon, mw... nothing and no one is responsible for that. Troll has this state of mind and you have to overcome. 

Guy is sacrifice himself because he knows the hidden truth about midwar. Mw is about team's hp vs team's hp and he is trying to make advantage for rest of your team. 

Guy is drunk or stoned etc. Which is corresponding to explanation no.1. but he is not doing it purposely. 

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im not in a high midwars mmr and how should i ever enter, if the team is always a mix of skills and bad picks or just the usual OP heroes on the enemy team.

to give you some information about my mindset, i don't like when a hero is op, so i will not pick them.

Its frustrating when you can only win by pure randomness or just if you pick always the same OP stuff.

Thats not how i wanna play. 'The game has 300+ heroes, give me a fair winning chance with everyone of them.

 

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If you can not Balance it for whatever reasons, why don't make 2 play modes,

One where no heroes can be banned for the people that don't mind unfair games.

And the other with 5 Bans per player and all bans visible so both sides can ban all the heroes they don't want.

 

For once the playerbase that cries about bans because of there alternative avatars can use whatever avatar they want, and every hero is in the game, so horrible imbalanced wars can happen and those players will have their fun.

And second the playerbase that don't want to have one of the 20 Overpowered imbalanced heroes in every game have a high chance of playing games where those total unfair heroes are not included.

 

Guess that change would not cost the world.

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4 hours ago, Lifewaster said:

If you can not Balance it for whatever reasons, why don't make 2 play modes,

One where no heroes can be banned for the people that don't mind unfair games.

And the other with 5 Bans per player and all bans visible so both sides can ban all the heroes they don't want.

 

For once the playerbase that cries about bans because of there alternative avatars can use whatever avatar they want, and every hero is in the game, so horrible imbalanced wars can happen and those players will have their fun.

And second the playerbase that don't want to have one of the 20 Overpowered imbalanced heroes in every game have a high chance of playing games where those total unfair heroes are not included.

 

Guess that change would not cost the world.

q time is already long enough and honestly 20 bans is more than enough. My suggestion is try to find some people to play with, maybe through the official HoN discord, and coordinate your bans better so you won't have to play against the heros you hate so much.

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Q times 2 minutes is much too long?
Play a round of Dead by Daylight as Killer and u will learn how a long Q time looks like.

well 50 bans are a lot but u will never get players that do all 20 bans right.
everyone has a different "tier list" in mind.

and only play with the same 5 guys is no fun either.

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23 minutes ago, Lifewaster said:

Q times 2 minutes is much too long?
Play a round of Dead by Daylight as Killer and u will learn how a long Q time looks like.

well 50 bans are a lot but u will never get players that do all 20 bans right.
everyone has a different "tier list" in mind.

and only play with the same 5 guys is no fun either.

5-10 min q is the norm for me, it depends on your mmr and group size.

You don't have to stop after you've made 4 friends. You can also just add nice people you find in game, that's how I did it.

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You are not wrong, but i think my idea would not hurt either.
maybe the no ban mode is the one that will have the bigger Q times.
Would show im not alone with my thinking that games without imbalanced heroes are better.

If im wrong i will have the longer Q times with the 5 Bans per player Mode, but it would
rather take a 10 minutes waiting time for a game then every minute a game that sucks for 
the 10 minutes it takes until my team or the other team can cc because the imbalanced heroes destroyed the game at the picking phase.

Well i can be wrong, and me and my friends are the only people that hate this imbalanced Heroes taking over every game.
But i really think we are not alone.

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On 9/6/2020 at 9:17 AM, Lifewaster said:

Wow you live in a dreamworld where everyone bans the right heroes, 

and your team plays perfect so no enemy can reach a high level or get items.

Wish i would have those drugs. But the reality is not what u are talking about here.

The reality is that u get stupid team members that ban ophelia or wildsoul and that feed

until the enemy is maxed out. This is reality, this is what we have to deal with.

 

PS: If you buy a Avatar and wanna use it just play FoC or a midwars mode where no heroes get banned 

like singel draft. 

Also it seems like the Members of the Forum that are not Staff think they are the ELITE, thats sad.

You think I lose a lot of games to god tiers? You're wrong. These days I've been banning Ophelia and Keeper (two of the worst heroes) because I know how to play against - and beat - god tiers, and in fact I actively want to play against hem. Sometimes I am disadvantaged based solely on hero picks, yes, but I seldom outright lose. And very often I outright beat these so-called god tier heroes. Up until recently (when he quit the game), I also played with someone who regularly picks Magebane, Scout, Legionnaire, Nomad, etc, and often overperformed expectations as well. What do you know?

"Team plays perfectly" - they often don't, but so what? This is what my match history looks like. Most of these involved pubs on my team, none of them went to the 6-slot carries with Corrupted Sword phase, and many of them never went into the late-game. If you think I didn't play against good heroes, you're wrong, e.g. in the Deadwood game we 3q'ed and beat a lineup with Klanx + Bramble + Ellonia. And if you think this is an anomaly, just ask for the screenshot with the next-previous 9 games.

D4Vh8Ic.png

By the way, since you're fond of flaunting your 6.5k MW games, I'll tell you that I have more MW games than that, and I have played MW tournament games. I've reached 2100+ MW MMR before. You?

Don't blame game balance because right now all indications are you have a lot more room to improve as a player.

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