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What would you like to see addressed in Midwars?


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I'd like to see more of the funny old quirks that would last a patch or so. The neutral creeps running through middle was a personal favourite and the snowball boss was pretty fun too.

Handle FoC? There is strange legitimacy of the claim that FoC players and FoC is some kind superior over midwar. From my perspective midwar should be main mode and it is future of moba. I play mw beca

100% true. In FoC u need to wait and fight the boredom and must figure out how not to fall into sleep. In Midwars you need to know the heroes and the skillset and react quickly and with brai

About mid wars. Maybe they could get all to lvl 25 after a certain amount of time, and the main structure get to the decay status which allows the game to end really quick instead of 30 min or 50 min games. About the BD if someone tries to do it unless there is a creep around any damage done heals the main structure.

Just an idea (I don't want all of these ideas to be applied to the game, I just want the HoN team to get some inspiration of these)

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1 hour ago, Garhunt said:

About mid wars. Maybe they could get all to lvl 25 after a certain amount of time, and the main structure get to the decay status which allows the game to end really quick instead of 30 min or 50 min games. About the BD if someone tries to do it unless there is a creep around any damage done heals the main structure.

Just an idea (I don't want all of these ideas to be applied to the game, I just want the HoN team to get some inspiration of these)

No, no and no.

 

We tried that in Mid Wars Beta & people hated it because the game end condition is artificial & feels anti-climatic.

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Changes are great so far.  Thanks to Elementuser and the other devs.

Games are shorter, averaging 18 mins here!  Down from about 23 mins.  Incidentally, not a single game over 42mins in my entire (accessible) game history, which is pure MW.  Yes it does happen, just not very often.

There's no apparent need to hold back, no undue comebacks.  The death timer changes allow for some comeback potential.  I'm fine with it or it could be stronger if that's what the community wants.  Don't see a need for gold boost really, nor boosting T1 health.

Laughed at a Chronos trying to backdoor.  He got the T2 tower.  Tower needs BD protection as well.  I suspect it can be bumped up a lot as people complaining about long games are clearly exaggerating.

Camping T1 is still a thing.  Think its damage should be reduced, or it runs out of ammo as I suggested.

Remaining changes I asked for are harder:

  • Games are still lost not won @1700 and below.  Putting net GPM in post-game lobby is the easiest solution and the one that keeps the mode 'competitive'.
  • Also, whilst I think some progress has been made, heroes are still very imbalanced. This requires a player/community-based balancing team.
Edited by NubbyMcNub
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Best games are when you fight for 40 min you have taken t2 but enemy is able to fight back. Comebacks are the best on midwar. You can't take only winner view on game. Balancing game to give opportunities for weaker team is better than boosting stronger team on river.

Game will be flat when this will be only about t1 push. I can't support this change. 

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19 hours ago, ElementUser said:

No, no and no.

 

We tried that in Mid Wars Beta & people hated it because the game end condition is artificial & feels anti-climatic.

Wow I wasn't expecting that, another idea I had was adding some buffs on the right side of legion jungle in mid wars, most of the time anyone gets there, (near the boss) or some canons as seen in songrank update a while ago. 

(Sorry for my atrocious idea xD)

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I'd have to much to say, i just have one question @ElementUser, how much more people are playing the actual map of midwars in comparison to bridgewars map ? 

 

I was in love with bridgewars and I cannot play this map at all. 

 

 

Edited by Ardoise
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All ppl I play with were saying same thing... bridgewar was bad as hell. Port spam skills die, port die, port die. Ppl were not playing bridgewar. Player base shrunk after 2 weeks so badly that they revert old mw... 

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The shortened AFK timer is just rediculously stupid, I just got kicked by team being support because I was standing back by tower and not moving around much, you legit have to constantly be moving or face getting kicked by your trolling team. Stupid  as shit, the hon Balance team failed hard with the last update

 

And now I'm banned from matchmaking for an entire day. WTF is this bullshit

Edited by specimen420
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I want a graphics overhaul for Mid Wars.

Caldavar Map has better Textures, high resolution I also believe.

I want Caldavar textures and assets copied over to Mid Wars

I also want a new skins I want the return of HoN to the glory days. Why can't Lord Elon Musk save us? I am going to spam his Twitter until he decides to help. It's worth a shot, will let you all know how it goes

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On 8/3/2020 at 6:26 PM, specimen420 said:

The shortened AFK timer is just rediculously stupid, I just got kicked by team being support because I was standing back by tower and not moving around much, you legit have to constantly be moving or face getting kicked by your trolling team. Stupid  as shit, the hon Balance team failed hard with the last update

 

And now I'm banned from matchmaking for an entire day. WTF is this bullshit

You're standing around the tower for 2.5 minutes doing nothing? You do have a "different" way of playing 

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Only played a couple of games post-patch, but lol @ the irony in "This also allows these heroes more variety of creeps they can take control of in the early game, though the Ancient creep has to be cleared (or the camp needs to be stacked) for them to spawn more neutral creeps they can take control of in the early game." Ophelia/Parasite cannot clear ancients on their own this early, so they need to bring their team, and their team will need to use spells, which means the other team has an easy initiation.

Upshot: Ophelia/Parasite actually got worse. I suspect both heroes are legitimate unviable now if they get their jungling skills, i.e. the best way to play both heroes are as bad nukers. RIP.

That said, I'm not completely critical because it does seem like the idea behind it is working. Just say a prayer for Ophelia & Parasite as collateral damage.

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Im not sure about valid ratio of experience gaining if team has 4 players than 5. Sometimes playing as 4 is better because levels incremental benefits more, even if score of both teams is equal. 4 players with 3 or 4 more levels take down 5 players team really easy. Now... when kick time is shorter it's even easier...  exp incremental for 4 players seems punishment for 5 players team. 

Another question speaking of the devil... what happens with experience during death time penalty? If it's not rising... we got 2 punishments on losing T1 T2 team. Extended death penalty time and passive experience. This comes for me to conclusion that, for now, game is more intense because both teams want to take down T1 asap which is good but on the other side chance for comeback is lower which is bad...

Edited by VaYha
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4 hours ago, VaYha said:

Im not sure about valid ratio of experience gaining if team has 4 players than 5. Sometimes playing as 4 is better because levels incremental benefits more, even if score of both teams is equal. 4 players with 3 or 4 more levels take down 5 players team really easy. Now... when kick time is shorter it's even easier...  exp incremental for 4 players seems punishment for 5 players team. 

But you lose 4 hero spells, 6 item slots, attack dmg and a target for the other team. 

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On 8/11/2020 at 3:31 PM, VaYha said:

both teams want to take down T1 asap which is good but on the other side chance for comeback is lower which is bad...

Not all comebacks are warranted.  Previously, it was super easy for carry-based teams to defend T2 and farm kills on the winning opposition, even if they were losing eg 20-3.  The only counter was to hang around the river doing nothing... in Midwars.

This nerf to undue comebacks seems spot on to me.  Comebacks are still possible.  Would be interested in what others think.

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I like the improved neutral camp

But

It favours legion side, they have easier access and a high ground path leading to it. If they choose to have a hero farm neutrals early and a supp running back and forth from mid and neutrals helping, helbourne have to take way more risks to stop it and legion can easily escape.

I suggest making the camp as it was before and placing ancient neutrals in front of zorgath and transmutenstein. New camp will "guard" transmutenstein and zorgath making it a little bit harder, especially for bw to solo. It will also increase the area played on and make wards more spread out.

This suggestion seems easier than redesigning the map to make access to neutrals from both sides more even.

P.S. I know heros aren't changed for mw but can we make wards immune to TB blast reveal? 

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One thing ive been wishing to have for a long time regarding MWs is this: Tweaked abilities specifically for MW's(outside of foC).  The thing about MWs that is so frustrating for me is that certain heroes are just more powerful then others(more aoe/stun) which makes for the same cookie cutter games(same heroes) every game.  It makes MWs dull for me after a few games.  In FoC there is a huge range of heroes that can be played effectively...that's not true for MWs which turns me off from it. 

One way to remedy the problem is to have separate ability damage numbers/cool downs for MWs aside from FoC; FoC being golden atm.  For many of the overpowered midwars heroes it takes very little skill to play them and do well in a given game(flint/ellonia/tb) if you know what items to get.

Edited by quick5ilver
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Can you check Polly ulti vs T1 T2 or base?. Last game we were backdoored by his doubled ulti pretty well. I know it was nerfed for midwars for obvious reason few patches before but it seems doesn't work anymore.  

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30 minutes ago, quick5ilver said:

One thing ive been wishing to have for a long time regarding MWs is this: Tweaked abilities specifically for MW's(outside of foC).  The thing about MWs that is so frustrating for me is that certain heroes are just more powerful then others(more aoe/stun) which makes for the same cookie cutter games(same heroes) every game.  It makes MWs dull for me after a few games.  In FoC there is a huge range of heroes that can be played effectively...that's not true for MWs which turns me off from it. 

One way to remedy the problem is to have separate ability damage numbers/cool downs for MWs aside from FoC; FoC being golden atm.  For many of the overpowered midwars heroes it takes very little skill to play them and do well in a given game(flint/ellonia/tb) if you know what items to get.

That won't happen due to technical maintenance overhead & player burden of knowledge for those who play between both modes.

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I think I've played enough games to say these things now:

- Definitely do not like the neutral camp change. It becomes hard to clear even at high levels, e.g. my level 15 Drunken Master with 10k+ worth of MW items still took a ton of damage from the camp.
- Respawn time change is insignificant unless the 2nd tower goes down, but if the 2nd tower goes down turtling gets a lot harder anyway. The idea is good but for real impact there needs to be a larger penalty from the first tower.
- That said, I have not seen nearly as much turtling since the Merrick's Rune change. I don't know if it's simply because I have not been 5q'ing, or if it's gotten less viable.
- Speaking of which, the Merrick's Rune is good, but I would still prefer if 1) it spawns somewhere closer to the middle so that people have to expose themselves to get it (right now it's actually possible to hug Zorgath until the rune spawns), and 2) if it's invulnerable so it cannot be denied.
- Naturally the more anti-turtling mechanisms there are, the weaker the weakest heroes like Magebane get. C'est la vie.

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The biggest Problems in MW are actually the AFK people. Not just the AFK Fountain People, also the ones staying at tower and literally doing nothing but spammin spells on creeps. It's so fckin boring and annoying that often in those matches i simply DC because it's 0 fun. When i join MW i wanna have fast paced games and not 2 teams staying afk at tower, killing creeps and waiting until some1 goes in.

 

I remember this was exactly the same for Footmen Frenzy in WC3. People just AFKED in Base, kited a little bit with their heroes and noone really wanted to go in. In later versions it got fixed and they created an autotimer which sends you automatically in after 2-3 minutes. That would be amazing for MW aswell.

Like every 1-2 Minutes, everyone gets warped at a new Side / Minimap where literally no creeps and no way to escape are. There you are forced to battle it out. The winner team get's a free boost or something.

 

Another problem is the hero balance. Some heroes are just busted in MW (Flint, Parallax, DR, Pred, SR, Ellonia, Artillery, Sapphire and probably some more). Others are completely worthless (Tremble, Parasite, Ophelia, WB, WS, Magebane). Those heroes need extra changes in MW, that don't accur to FoC. But i doubt this will ever happen.

Edited by cobaye
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9 hours ago, cobaye said:

The biggest Problems in MW are actually the AFK people. Not just the AFK Fountain People, also the ones staying at tower and literally doing nothing but spammin spells on creeps. It's so fckin boring and annoying that often in those matches i simply DC because it's 0 fun. When i join MW i wanna have fast paced games and not 2 teams staying afk at tower, killing creeps and waiting until some1 goes in.

 

I remember this was exactly the same for Footmen Frenzy in WC3. People just AFKED in Base, kited a little bit with their heroes and noone really wanted to go in. In later versions it got fixed and they created an autotimer which sends you automatically in after 2-3 minutes. That would be amazing for MW aswell.

Like every 1-2 Minutes, everyone gets warped at a new Side / Minimap where literally no creeps and no way to escape are. There you are forced to battle it out. The winner team get's a free boost or something.

 

Another problem is the hero balance. Some heroes are just busted in MW (Flint, Parallax, DR, Pred, SR, Ellonia, Artillery, Sapphire and probably some more). Others are completely worthless (Tremble, Parasite, Ophelia, WB, WS, Magebane). Those heroes need extra changes in MW, that don't accur to FoC. But i doubt this will ever happen.

Next time, pick an initiator. If you pick Artesia Polly Tarot Adrenaline Slither etc like your match history says you do, you can't complain about people not going in.

Also most of the heroes you called "busted" aren't actually busted, but it's been rehashed countless times and I'm not in the mood to argue.

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On 8/27/2020 at 1:41 AM, Sorais said:

I think I've played enough games to say these things now:

- Definitely do not like the neutral camp change. It becomes hard to clear even at high levels, e.g. my level 15 Drunken Master with 10k+ worth of MW items still took a ton of damage from the camp.
- Respawn time change is insignificant unless the 2nd tower goes down, but if the 2nd tower goes down turtling gets a lot harder anyway. The idea is good but for real impact there needs to be a larger penalty from the first tower.
- That said, I have not seen nearly as much turtling since the Merrick's Rune change. I don't know if it's simply because I have not been 5q'ing, or if it's gotten less viable.
- Speaking of which, the Merrick's Rune is good, but I would still prefer if 1) it spawns somewhere closer to the middle so that people have to expose themselves to get it (right now it's actually possible to hug Zorgath until the rune spawns), and 2) if it's invulnerable so it cannot be denied.
- Naturally the more anti-turtling mechanisms there are, the weaker the weakest heroes like Magebane get. C'est la vie.

Respawn time for T1 down is enough now. It's much more harder to come back after patch anyway. if you increase this penalty, attacking team will snowball after they get T1.  Your point of view is point of winning side. We don't want T1wars but midwars. Some heroes have advantage on river so it's good for other heroes and strategy not to make game only about T1. Let teams feel they fight for more than T1. You don't want easy wins. Increasing penalty time will affect picking les variety heroes. Time is one factor but passive exp which is hold during death time is another hidden penalty. Even now late carries feel weaker and it's much more easier to win by power skills/aoe heroes... game is more oriented on taking T1 asap which is good. I was against last changes before release but now game is better and feel balanced enough. Sometimes enough is enough. You don't want to pass this point and make game to easy after T1 with no chance for comeback and making autoattack carries useless picks. 

I'm writing specifically to you Sorais because you are listened by ElementUser and we don't want another advice which will bring another catastrophe for midwars. I respect you because you have same intention as mine.. making mw better and better. Problem is that top players like you don't represent majority of mw community. What want to say is... If top players would design games they wouldn't be playable for average players. There is some kind of pleasure to play 25lvl carry with perfect inventory. Don't make mw for early tower pushers teams only. 

 

 

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