Pulling

[YoUCan`THidE 3]

Pulling ruins the game. It allows the shortlane to f*ck up the lanecontrol, then just earn it back without any effort. Back in the day there was only one camp, a small camp, that could be blocked with a ward, which sometimes the support couldnt afford to counter. 

Now things have changed. There are 2 pull camps, one of them is a medium, making it close to impossible to block both of them. This completely ruins any suicide lane, and even dual longlanes too.

My suggestion is that lane creeps should not be aggressive towards neutral camps, bringing more focus to the lane rather than the neutral camps.
I created a poll, to see if others agree or not.

[Froschbein 32]

bro, puIIing the medium camp heIps the suicide/manup Iane not the short Iane xD

[ElementUser 839]

8 minutes ago, Froschbein said:

bro, puIIing the medium camp heIps the suicide/manup Iane not the short Iane xD

This - although I do admit that the current implementation isn't ideal for suicide lanes. Hopefully I'll be able to find time to fix that next patch, as map changes of this calibur are particularly delicate.

[hegelsohn 88]

Keep it as it is. Imho it's healthy for the game to have the medium camp contested by short and offlane. It doesn't ruin anything. If you remove the ability to pull camps you won't be able to obtain any lane control vs certain heroes (behe, pr) and you are screwed if anybody pulls the creeps even a little bit.

[YoUCan`THidE 3]

1 hour ago, hegelsohn said:

Keep it as it is. Imho it's healthy for the game to have the medium camp contested by short and offlane. It doesn't ruin anything. If you remove the ability to pull camps you won't be able to obtain any lane control vs certain heroes (behe, pr) and you are screwed if anybody pulls the creeps even a little bit.

I disagree. Behe cant really have good lanecontrol as a suicide, even with blocking the creeps (since he is not killing them)
And PR is not one of those heroes that is so OP this would break the game.

[doctornik 48]

1 hour ago, hegelsohn said:

Keep it as it is. Imho it's healthy for the game to have the medium camp contested by short and offlane. It doesn't ruin anything. If you remove the ability to pull camps you won't be able to obtain any lane control vs certain heroes (behe, pr) and you are screwed if anybody pulls the creeps even a little bit.

-I dont think its easy to be contested.Ofc if u have a good combo short u can get out of ur tower and contest it sure.
My points and thoughts regarding this mainly are :
a) Man up lanes thrive on 2 vs 2 .You; coming out of ur comfort zone and contesting the pull, is what they want most of the times.(This ofc doesnt apply always, maybe  u got levels and 1 item lets say , and u can take the fight.)
  b)  Most of the times carry heroes will just go to farm the wave inside their tower. Meaning the support is left alone to contest the pull( denying creeps , or last hitting them). 

-If you are laning with a bad support player and overextends he is dead. On the other hand If he stays passive opponents end up farming a double stack or a triple stack + lane creeps.

Meaning they get xp and gold from 10 to 13 creeps. Whilst your carry gets 4 creeps and the lane back to the tower. Weighting this,the two long laners always stay on top. Yes you get the lane back , aka Lane control, but point being in this meta, lane control doesnt really exist.

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->The idea of removing pulls, is bad. The idea of reverting it to the old pull concept( 1 pull,the easy camp) is valid- as it was always for many years at HoN .
->This could also be the solution of the inequality that exists between the battle at the safe lane.

 

Old hon map had a bunch of trees around the hard camp( where the medium is now) ( in my mind i have hellbourne side btw) and camp was facing torwards the shop in jungle. 
I dont know what twist, or easy route can be followed. A trick like what was done at legion side safe camp could be possible. The only thing that maybe be an obstacle is that there are two instances of pulling the camp as there are two exits. So we are talking about different time frames of you being able to pull. I dont know how the aggro mechanic of neutral works( what amount of distance they keep following).

****If distance of aggro with the addition of trees can be easily toggled then it can be a solution / change of neutral camp facing and addition of some trees.****

 

edit:  i think this should be in balance sub section

Edited June 5, 2020 by doctornik

[hegelsohn 88]

7 hours ago, YouCan`tHide said:

I disagree. Behe cant really have good lanecontrol as a suicide, even with blocking the creeps (since he is not killing them)
And PR is not one of those heroes that is so OP this would break the game.

Maybe you misread my post but those heroes easily can obtain lane control. Behe can block the creeps fairly easy and if there is no possibility to pull it means that behe can farm at the tower while the enemy carry needs to farm in danger. Free xp and farm for the suicide is whats going to happen if you can't even pull a single camp. That would entirely break the game thus shouldn't even be discussed.

 

I myself kinda disliked the endless farming meta with suicides hiding in the trees leeching xp. A second pull camp brings a more contestable lane for suicide and also brings more options in a 2v2 laning phase (in that case a 2nd camp to pull for short lane side might help). It goes in both directions which makes it healthy. It also works fine in dota2. 

[ResT 0]

keep it as it is. better to have a 2-1-2 lanes now. suicides are supposed to have a hard time in lane to begin with.
since they sent a jungler to the other side to gank and farm .