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Oxim

mid wars mid wars update

mid wars update  

4 members have voted

  1. 1. core perma lose 1%hp per team death - 100 deaths = game over. prevent games dragging out/ spawn camping

    • yes
      2
    • no
      2


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core perma lose 1%hp per team death - 100 deaths = game over. prevent games dragging out/ spawn camping

100 is a nice number.

or let players leave without punishment

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Posted (edited)

Believe it or not, we tried a forced game ending condition in Mid Wars PBT & players absolutely hated how the game just abruptly ends. It completely negates the feeling of having a good game.

 

This will never happen 🙂

Edited by ElementUser

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i played that, problem was it died too fast. 100 is good number

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Believe it or not, we tried a forced game ending condition in Mid Wars PBT & players absolutely hated how the game just abruptly ends. It completely negates the feeling of having a good game.

 

This will never happen 🙂

You mean like backdooring? 😉

Enjoying the Merrick's Rune change.  Snotter is always fun for say 1 patch in 4-6.  There was another Kong variation that had creeps spawning from right to left.  I thought that one had promise.

@Oxim Are you talking about games that are obviously over and your team won't concede?

There's a defensive period in Midwars where all teams can defend their last tower/throne with easy heal/spawn/teleport and pull the game back a bit.  It's such an advantage that I've seen teams refuse to cross the river (and don't Kong either).  
This generally keeps the game competitive for longer but also drags it out and inhibits concede votes.

My feeling is that this defensive advantage should be toned down.  The best way I can think of is to add ~3s to the death timer for each tower lost. 
This would encourage backdooring even more so again I'd recommend boosting backdoor protection.

Edited by NubbyMcNub

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Posted (edited)

No, not like backdooring. You can see it coming if you have wards & it's still a decision that is driven by players in the game . The game itself doesn't drive that abrupt end & there is a big difference.

 

Yes, I know people will say that if you have a Pollywog Priest with Resto + SotM, then you can't do much about it if he reaches your base. It's a soft timer, but the timing & viability varies by circumstance (as influenced by all the players in said game) & is not hardcoded into the game by some formula. You can also avoid this by banning heroes like Pollywog Priest.

 

The main issue is players lacking control of the game-ending condition. This was what made the Mid Wars PBT game-end condition a failure.

Edited by ElementUser

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ElementUser said:

No, not like backdooring. You can see it coming if you have wards & it's still a decision players in the game drive. The game itself doesn't drive that abrupt end & there is a big difference.

It's only a "decision" if players remember and the anti-climax is the same. Your reasoning sounds more for Caldavar.  Midwars is different.

People play games because they enjoy be able to do what they want to do.  Not what the game 'forces' them to do.  Extra Credits called this 'agency' and did a whole series on it starting with this one:

In Midwars, players want thrilling teamfights.  They don't want to remember to ward against a strategy they wish didn't exist, then trail across the map alone, telling their team they should avoid fighting... not that anyone listens anyway.

At 1600 level, almost no-one wards for backdooring and almost no-one carries TP.  Heck, Kong doesn't get warded in at least 60% of games.

Re: 'lost' games that drag on, an old idea I had was if the concede vote is lost by one, allow players to leave freely.

 

Edited by NubbyMcNub

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16 hours ago, NubbyMcNub said:

It's only a "decision" if players remember and the anti-climax is the same. Your reasoning sounds more for Caldavar.  Midwars is different.

People play games because they enjoy be able to do what they want to do.  Not what the game 'forces' them to do.  Extra Credits called this 'agency' and did a whole series on it starting with this one:

In Midwars, players want thrilling teamfights.  They don't want to remember to ward against a strategy they wish didn't exist, then trail across the map alone, telling their team they should avoid fighting... not that anyone listens anyway.

At 1600 level, almost no-one wards for backdooring and almost no-one carries TP.  Heck, Kong doesn't get warded in at least 60% of games.

Re: 'lost' games that drag on, an old idea I had was if the concede vote is lost by one, allow players to leave freely.
 

This sounds like how wza did his balancing, taking his own word for law without considering what players in general actually liked. And here we are with wildsoul.

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4 hours ago, Syllab said:

This sounds like how wza did his balancing, taking his own word for law without considering what players in general actually liked. And here we are with wildsoul.

Give him a chance.  Midwars isn't at the top of ElementUser's priority list and that design philosophy was probably ubiquitous in Frostburn -- it's fine for Caldavar.  All we can do is present a different case for Midwars.

ElementUser was maintaining HoN pretty much single-handedly until the situation improved a couple of months ago, probably doing a lot in his spare time.  I don't want to diminish the work of the others, especially when unpaid.

But, ElementUser is a big reason the game is still going and will keep going for years to come.

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Posted (edited)

Mid Wars is generally fine as is. If you want a serious discussion on problems with Mid Wars & proposed solutions, we can do that in a separate thread for Mid Wars.

 

The original premise of this thread is denied for the reasons I've outlined.

Edited by ElementUser
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