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When looking at recent buffs and changes in mechancs to alot of heroes, I wonder how that ability always gets forgotten or ignored.

Initially when the hero saw it's light of life in HoN, she was absolutely fine, as a matter of fact even very well balanced.

devastating if played really well, unnoticeable if played really poorly.

 

however lately with alot of abilities being buffed or tweaked, and alot of abilities that related to the direction your hero was facing (Gauntlet, Kane, Rally), hers remained untouched and unchanged. As a matter of fact, I perfectly like it the way it mechanically works as it requires a bit of skill. However for starters, it has an initially ridiculously high cooldown. something that made sense back in the old days but not anymore, especially after portal keys cooldown was changed years ago, she should have received a buff to her cooldown times.

There are other mobility abilities, that are far superior to it in every way.

when it comes to terms of disjointing, compare it to Drunken Master. when it comes to terms of Cool Down, compare it to every single other one.

Now there are alot of reasons to apply different cool downs, some abilities only provide a blink (which is already more flexible), some deal damage (bubbels) and so on. Valk grants a small movementspeed buff to self and allies within radius of where you land. thats neat. but doesnt justify 40 seconds on level 1. i CAN get behind the 20 seconds on level 4 i guess but still that does feel weak compared to bubbels who has less, higher range and deals damage. oh and can decide where he wants to land along that range. sure it doesnt cost much mana but then again... blinks dont do either.

 

i would like to request for it's cooldown to be tweaked and maybe apply an additional attackspeed bonus (not a big one) as it does with movementspeed, to actually justify picking up the ability earlier, and providing more than a run away or jump to cast Q after hitting W tool.

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Posted (edited)

-I agree it doesnt need a direction. 
-On Valkyrie suggestion , what could be ideal would be a diifferent kind of low cd  approach. So as the game would have disparity.
What i would like  to see is a Mirana approach(Dota 2):

 

Spoiler

 

Number of Charges: 3
Charge Replenish Time: 45/40/35/30
Valkyrie gets all 3 charges immediately upon learning Leap.

 

Edited by doctornik
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Posted (edited)
17 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

Valkyrie as a hero is perfectly fine though, so there's no need to change this skill.

 

If anything she may need some minor nerfs to Q. 

I agree that her Kit alltogether performs decently well, However I strongly disagree that her level 1 Leap needs no changes.

In it's current form, the 40 seconds cooldown for a few seconds of minimal speedboost, a short disjoint window and 200 units jump is just too much. that is ultimate level cool down!!!!

can we rescale level 1 and 2 cooldown of that ability please so level 3 stays close and 4 stays the same, but 1 and 2 aren't such horrendously high cooldowns?

to be honest, i'd even agree that her q could use an additional second or two cooldown, rather than nerfing it's damage (as it does provide a tool for clearing waves).

but the 40 seconds are just a joke, no offense.
i often even wanna skip it due to the high cd but find myself unable to do it because it is necessary to her entire kit and role (she is damn squishy) and ebcause i'd have to eventually pick it up anyway.

@doctornik not sure whether you misunderstood, i actually dislike removing the factor of faced direction, as it does somewhat reduce the intended skillceiling for a hero, if the ability get's enabled further than initially.

Edited by merryhonmas
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8 minutes ago, merryhonmas said:

not sure whether you misunderstood, i actually dislike removing the factor of faced direction, as it does somewhat reduce the intended skillceiling for a hero, if the ability get's enabled further than initially.

I never said to remove it.I do like the skillceiling. Actually im one of the few posting in the forums about  the removal of skill  requirements on certain heroes since forever ? 

i just said that if her leap changes i wouldnt like to see again a low cd leap in the game, rather a different approach like Mirana has.

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I do agree that 40 seconds is a little too hard to stomach at times.

That being said I don't think Q and W need changes, I think they're perfectly fine as is. I think you could scale E down to 25 / 23 / 21 / 19 and it would still be reasonable. If the issue is it being a 1-Point Wonder, make the Courage scale harder.

As a whole though, I think she's fine but when I play Mirana and come back to Valkyrie, I feel sluggish; but that isn't a real balancing point just anecdotal.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)

I think the E having long Cooldown balances the Hero as Suicide in some ways. She has way harder Times on Sui, but benefits alot more from her Ult giving global Free Assists and her Arrow being a Ganking Tool without leaving the lane. Valk is completely fine as it is and especially the facing thing on Leap is what makes her super fun to play. Why make her even more simple? There are literally tons of players just afking at Tier 2, Spamming Arrow and Ults for free kills and assists. So why making her more simple by that Leap Change?

Edited by cobaye
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Posted (edited)

As a 600 ranged hero valkyrie has decent stats and average ~ good attack animation/projectile, she can already bully some heroes with just auto attacks on top of having effectively a blink, on top of having additional bonuses. 40s might be too high, but it's easy to imagine the hero getting out of hand.

In terms of overall balance, her ult is good and annoying as is, but it's her Q and W that have high potential ceilings, that Q nuke can do 450 damage to a single target and that W can stun up to 5s on top of above average damage. Therefor her normal state should be just a bit lower in the power curve imo, there's also hybrid/flexibility tax. Her E also costs less than a blink, 40/35/30/25 which is already favorable in an aggressive position, in which case the cooldown isn't as important as her mana management.

However i do have some critiques, her leap having a varying value means that leveling it up might do more harm than good. You want precise positioning for Q, but the leap range goes from 600 to 900 throws you off, having to readjust yourself takes time and that means dps loss. I myself subconsciously give up trying to combo it due to this. Perhaps lock the leap range to 600, increase the aura bonus and increase the cooldown reduction per level up to 40/32/24/16.

Edited by rezziedahl
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Posted (edited)

As Valkyrie is my favourite and most played hero I believe the hero is performing ok,  minor tweak I might want to have is increasing slightly the length of the leap at level 1 and 2,  or a step further have the same leap distance on all levels.

Edited by Garrote
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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Garrote said:

As Valkyrie is my favourite and most played hero I believe the hero is performing ok,  minor tweak I might want to have is increasing slightly the length of the leap at level 1 and 2,  or a step further have the same leap distance on all levels.

I'd honestly rather have her on 600 units range on all levels with rescaled cool down times, as suggested by @rezziedahl.

she is one of my most beloved heroes but i rarely pick her as she is actually quite circumstancial with the current meta. there is by far better suicide options currently (even deadwood could be more beneficial in alot of situations rofl) and her kit is not really made for shortlaning or properly laning mid. she does perform well in dual long lanes, espcially with a combo but then again that is kinda boring to me.
thus i often don't pick her ?
plus there is too many hardcounters tbh and her current staff is in my oppinion actually boring.
it's GOOD, but boring. much rather see her get leap charges and maybe charge based ultimate similar to vindicator, or a buff to the ult, rather than a buff to the stun.

altho I would have to agree that having multiple charges on her Leap would be too good for her unless their range got nerfed drastically (instead of 900 units on level 4, each leap is only 300 units max for example).

i do however 100% agree that she is a good hero and in a good spot.

i still think tho that alot of heroes have better mobility or more recently updated mobility tools at hand.

Regarding the comparison to other blinks, someone else drew earlier in this thread, do keep in mind that either of those is neither direction- nor distance-bound, only radial, thus justifying the different mana costs.

 

underline is that the hero as it is, is terribly difficult to actually balance as any minor change can have devastating outcome either direction. nonetheless certain parts of the hero just feel non rewarding mechanically. or rather i never feel satisfied after leaping or prismarizing idk. like it's missing SOMETHING.

Edited by merryhonmas
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I think people tend to underestimate the greatest strength of the hero, which is actually the ultimate and the ganking potential. Since we dont have smoke of deceit in HoN, Valkyrie's ulit is the best ganking ability in the game but this is severely under-utilised in low-mmr games.

p.s I love the sotm as hitting arrows is one of the most satisfying aspects of the game for me, combined with spellshards it can damage hard ?.

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  • 1 month later...
Posted (edited)

Valkyrie needs a nerf first before any kind of buffs due to the level of power creep in the game being adjusted (& her power creep being a bit too high right now as a result). I don't mind her receiving shorter but more versatile uses of Leap (similar to her mechanic in Dota2), but maybe in a future patch.

 

I'm adjusting her Q mana cost since it's far too good at amplifying her farming. Don't worry, it won't be as high as her original Q mana cost numbers.

Edited by ElementUser
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  • 2 weeks later...

Add charges to leap with a regresh rate of todays CD. Except for valks ulti she currently is bad except when 5+slotted which she rarely gets due to her not being able to really Short farm or mid. (i know she can Short farm and mid shh but u get My point) and cuz of this she gets Staff spell shards and legacy a Friend. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Valkyrie's Leap is great for her allies in terms of the effects when landing on a location.

I usually play Valk as a ganker/suicide hero. Her design is defining her as a early-to-mid game ganker with leap helping her allies in either getting close to the enemies, or working as a saving grace when the hard carry gets ganked. Not only does she have the blink effect, but the additional 800 AOE, 5 seconds +20% movement speed boost is really not bad (it's effectively 60+ movement speed on most heroes without boots).

What I'd really like to see is (cherry pick as you desire):

  • Valkyrie's base attack damage changed from 21 - 26 (42 - 47) to 23 - 25 (44 - 46). 
    • This will effectively make her attack damage more precise when playing the suicide role.
  • Valkyrie's base movement speed reduced from 300 to 295.
    • This is a QoL update for the passive and level 1 learned ability suggestions on Courageous Leap (slow hero becoming fast later on).
  • Courageous Leap is given 5 levels (one that is already level granted from start), where no other effects than the leap is granted on the first level.
    • This will grant Valkyrie the ability to gank the other lanes earlier when playing the suicide/support role.
  • Courageous Leap passively gives (0)/5/10/15/20 movement speed to Valkyrie.
    • QoL update for a faster hero later on in the game.
  • Courageous Leap getting 600 range on all levels (as suggested by others).
    • As others have already mentioned: This will make the hero easier to control / predict the landing zone with the current "facing direction" approach. 
  • Courageous Leap mana cost increased to 40 at all levels (currently scaling from 40/35/30/20).
    • Makes her save some extra mana for an anti-gank leap (rather than wasting everything on farming fast).
  • Courageous Leap cooldown from 35/30/25/20 seconds to (35)/30/25/20/15 seconds.
    • Gives her more mobility in general, and fits perfectly with the range "nerf".
  • Call of the Valkyrie damage rescaled from 75/150/225/300 to 110/180/250/320, but now only deals 80% damage to creeps (88/144/200/256 damage)
    • Reduces her ability to farm fast (and make her stand out more than other heroes fitting the same roles).
  • Call of the Valkyrie mana cost increased from 80/100/120/140 to 85/110/135/160.
    • Another approach to reduce her ability to farm fast as she levels this ability.

 

Also, there's a tooltip error stating that the Courageous Leap effect is applied to heroes for 10 seconds while it's only 5 seconds on her allies (and 10 seconds on herself - just a minor detail).

 

 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Make leap more selfish. So we can get a leap without The team buff but More Leaping. More +as for valk, charges 1//2/2/2 refresh rate 25/25/20/15. As+ to valk 25/30/35/40 ms+  5/10/15/20% No aura for team. Nerf ulti slightly. Increase agi/lvl and start agi. 

The arrow stuns to Long on low Ranges. Like 2s in auto attack range...

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/23/2020 at 3:05 PM, RUS_AGENT007 said:

Make leap more selfish. So we can get a leap without The team buff but More Leaping. More +as for valk, charges 1//2/2/2 refresh rate 25/25/20/15. As+ to valk 25/30/35/40 ms+  5/10/15/20% No aura for team. Nerf ulti slightly. Increase agi/lvl and start agi. 

The arrow stuns to Long on low Ranges. Like 2s in auto attack range...

 

When I read the patch note, this suggestion is similar to PBT Valkyrie.

Edited by datfizh
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No...PBT stands for Public Beta testing

 

It was available to the public to view and try out at any time. Still is actually, we just don't put them in official TMM games because the project associated with the mode is no longer maintained.

Edited by ElementUser
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Also can I just remind everyone that keeps complaining about the incosistency of Valks leap, that Silhouette's Death Lotus is by far worse?
Especially since an entire single blade rotation takes roughly 2 seconds or so which makes the skill unreliable as fuck early if your opponent has roughly the same mechanical skill as you do.
So before you adjust any valk leap distances for QoL, maybe change those blades and consistently make them 4 and only scale the damage and or cooldown...

 

Just to throw that in here!

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5 hours ago, MerryHONmas said:

Also can I just remind everyone that keeps complaining about the incosistency of Valks leap, that Silhouette's Death Lotus is by far worse?
Especially since an entire single blade rotation takes roughly 2 seconds or so which makes the skill unreliable as fuck early if your opponent has roughly the same mechanical skill as you do.
So before you adjust any valk leap distances for QoL, maybe change those blades and consistently make them 4 and only scale the damage and or cooldown...

 

Just to throw that in here!

Plz, may I remind Everyone that nymph ulti can be seen.... Plz fix this before fixing death lotus. 

Your text dont belong here. 

May I redirect your suggestion here: https://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/index.php?/forum/3-balancedesign-discussion/&do=add

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6 hours ago, RUS_AGENT007 said:

Plz, may I remind Everyone that nymph ulti can be seen.... Plz fix this before fixing death lotus. 

Your text dont belong here. 

May I redirect your suggestion here: https://forums.heroesofnewerth.com/index.php?/forum/3-balancedesign-discussion/&do=add

hm yes it does it's a subtle note toward the fact that her leap having different ranges is not the issue she has.
so im not entirely sure why you are showing attitude rn?!

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As a long time Valk suicide player, I like the way RUS_AGENT007 is thinking. Lower CD/Charges will help immensely against supports who are able to box you out with spammable spells.

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