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My feedback on new Nitro


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A few things i would like to see change:

Q skill: dont really like it, its not good for farming nor good at dealing dmg, its only alright early for extra harras and to combo with ulti on a running enemy but i feel it underperforms a lot

W skill: overall fine except for the fact that it misses your stun even when you click on the enemy, and since the range is short it makes you miss a lot, its also super easy to miss at close range, its nuts

E: pretty weak almost unnoticeable movement speed boost, varely enough to choose it over stats

R: ulti is great and fun but it needs to give vision like Corrupted W or it is super easy to juke

Overall feels the hero is very weak and mostly shines when using ult in combination with high dmg items but its very squishy and all of his skills rely on being very close to the enemy

Edited by GiveUpBra
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Nitros rework is really bad. Not bad enough it got nerfed but now it has been reworked to a worse than ever hero. I am so disappointed in FB. 
you should just remove the hero from the game instead of redestroying it.

You nerfed it, which I can agree was fine I can agree it was to OP for players who could play it properly, then you nerfed it making it harder for good players to use it.

Now you have made it unplayable and its a total different hero. 

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May I remind you that there were points where Nitro had a sub 25% win rate before? That was the lowest win rate I've seen in any MOBA ever.

There are room for tweaks but being reactionary doesn't really help either. There is also a whole sub section of the forums dedicated for balance but I still think it is a little too early to tell, wait for the numbers to settle down a bit before jumping to rash conclusions.

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I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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19 hours ago, GiveUpBra said:

Algumas coisas que eu gostaria de ver mudar:

Habilidade Q: realmente não gosto, não é bom para a agricultura nem bom para lidar com dmg, só é cedo para harras extras e combinar com ulti em um inimigo em execução, mas sinto que ele tem um desempenho muito baixo

Habilidade W: geral bem, exceto pelo fato de que ele perde o seu atordoamento, mesmo quando você clica no inimigo, e como o alcance é curto, você sente muita falta, também é super fácil de perder de perto,

E: aumento de velocidade de movimento quase imperceptível, bastante fraco, variado o suficiente para escolhê-lo sobre as estatísticas

R: ulti é ótimo e divertido, mas precisa dar uma visão como Corrupted W ou é super fácil de jogar

No geral, sente que o herói é muito fraco e brilha principalmente ao usar ult em combinação com itens com alto teor de mg, mas é muito mole e todas as suas habilidades dependem de estar muito perto do inimigo

I also feel the same thing when I played with nitro. I played a few games and I can't really have fun with it.

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The Hero is fine and actually an awesome midder imo. It feels like a little Arachna now with worse ganking but better carrypotential. Yeah her E is pretty bad and could need a buff (just readd the Evasion and it's cool) and i kinda agree with the Ult doesn't reveal stuff (especially at Night the Ult is kinda weird to use and often fails) but damn, the new Nitro with some DMG Items can just rek their carries so fast, its super fun.

Never liking the concept of the Old Nitro, i think this rework is super amazing. It feels like a new Hero that surely needs some little twerks over time but honestly, no single HoN or DotA Hero was perfect at release.  And the Old Nitro? Well, noone will miss it, so screw it. Very cool change imo, and crap like 'just delete the hero, the rework is garbage' is just disrecpectful to the Dev-Team.

Edited by cobaye
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I really like the concept of the new Nitro, but it is underperforming, hes a bad ganker since his ulti at first deals very little dmg  cuz low stats at lvl 6 or 7, the W pushes enemies away from nitro wich doesnt help when ganking unless you come from behind the target wich is uncommon. Q doesnt really add any significant dmg vs single target nor for farming. And yes i have won even some 4vs5 games with nitro and my overall mastery lvl is 1500+ so iam speaking from experience. These are my suggestions:

Q) Needs to give an impactull bonus, right now his main use is to harras without agroeing creeps

W) Fine, but it seems like you can easily miss it even at close range, probably cuz of the small starting angle of the aoe (something similar to rally ulti), it also makes you fail clicked enemies within the limits of your aoe as long as they are moving

E) Same, needs a more meaningfull bonus

R) Fine, needs to provide vision and could use some sort of minimun guaranteed dmg per attack in order to make it a bit more viable early to gank

It also has a bad lategame in the sense that null pretty much blocks his ulti wich is the only big dmg he has, without his ulti Nitro is just a regular auto atacker carry with no dmg or atack speed bonuses, in other words, bad ganker early game, bad carry late game.

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i am heavily against nitros R providing vision and turning into a free-kill ability.
she is supposed to be annoying but you are supposed to be able to outplay her.
I suspect that was one of the main aspects revelation was removed from bushwacks ult. Altho it was simultaneously one of the few reasons the hero actually could excel, wish that they had kept it around for his staff as his current staff effect is really situational even AFTER pickup (you need a chain of targets to maintain your selfbuff, considering how instantly it expires).

if nitro now gains true vision with her bonus attackspeed, bonus movementspeed, and grenade shells, you will be facing the exact same issue as pre-rework: no escaping her. except that this time you don't need to be a skilled nitro player, just a rightclicked. 2 apm would be all you need (1 to press R and 1 to richtglick) and then you sit back and wait. currently it leaves room for counterplay which i find is perfectly fine.

i do agree tho that her e seems a bit underwhelming in it's entirety. however buffing it too much would render abilities such as Corrupteds passive, or valkyries leap weak (an ability i think does need updating with recent chain of buffs/changes).

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I never said it should reveal invi heroes, just provide regular vision of the target, you are also forgeting that any stun or disarm will render his entire ultimate useless, since it doesnt attack when disabled. All im asking for its to make it more viable cuz i find his ulti concept pretty cool and fun and i would love to play the hero more, but in reality i have to play it way below my real mmr to make an impact. Right now you can just use void talisman or any disable and the hero is 100% useless, Harkons Blade its not even an option since it will burn his mana super fast and hes already using a lot just for his Q.

 

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Played Nitro a couple times and I think I have a handle on his kit and the idea behind it, but I find him exceedingly weak:

So Nitro is incredibly fragile and I feel like her stats still expect her to have a 1500 range and evasion. She now has neither and, especially with her Q, is expected to be up close harassing. This is incredible dangerous for her as her Q is not a deterrent in contrast to a hero such as Arachna, who's orb slows hard AND has a DOT.

Q
Nitro's Q is cheap and allows her to attack under a tower, through a creep wave, etc. However, the shrapnel left behind is very hit or miss, because the variable range they appear at makes it hard to force opponents to walk over it. From what I understand, the idea is to lay down tons of shrapnel, then chase opponents away over the shrapnel or use W to force them on it. Interesting mechanic, but in such a movement-focused game, it's very hard to put this into practice or lay down enough shrapnel to not have it absorbed quickly or eaten by creeps.
Furthermore, the variable range gives it a decent chance of hitting creeps, thus pushing the lane when you may not want to.

 

W
I hate her W. As others have pointed out it is super hard to hit close enemies, thus negating a lot of its defensive use - getting attackers away from a glass cannon Nitro. Secondly the targeting is very short range and has too much of a cast time. An opponent in the middle of the cursor can easily walk out of the blast area before it goes off. 

I do have a suggestion for this though - Artillery used to have a similar ability, but it would push him away rather than the opponent. The targeting was a circular AOE reticle and was much easier to land. Perhaps Nitro could use that instead?

E
Underwhelming. The speed boost is very meh. I understand it should synergize with keeping people in her ulti, but it doesn't help when the real issues are stuns and slows rather than speed. Also, the active is slightly useful for getting to a gank, but she isn't a ganker, so I don't really understand  the point. Also, why should it slow down around opponents?  A good move, imho, would be to add evasion onto the ability as an active that gives 20/30/40/50% evasion for x seconds. This would allow her to focus on maneuvering while using her ulti, rather than running away from opponents.

R
Interesting ability, I love that she can move while firing. However, enemies can juke, go invisible, stun or get out of range to nullify it completely. Also, if you get stunned, you have basically wasted it. Finally, it seems to force Nitro into going for modifiers or proc items, but they leave her so squishy that following someone with her ulti is pretty much an instant death.

Would love to discuss further.

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Played her again and the Ult Revealing the Target is a BIG BIG must Change. People just run into Trees or in Shadows and the Ult just stopps. You chase them, Fog griefs you and you wasted your ult for nothing. Especially at Night the Ult is completely worthless, when you are not in a big fight. It totally has to perma reveal the target, as long as the Ult is active. Not revealing Invis, but totally perma Revealing it otherwise, so Fog is not your biggest enemy for the Hero.


Also super weak against blink heroes. They Blink into Fog and Ult did nothing. That's stupid.

Edited by cobaye
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My 2 cents:

Q is overall bad spell, only good thing is that you can orb-harass without aggroing creeps (like arachna). The shrapnels have a very small touch radius, making them not very consistent as a farming tool.

W is a good spell

E is veeeery veeeery bad spell, especially in lane. First level is like +15 move speed for 50 mana (if there are enemies around), literally no reason to level it over stats.

R is good spell with farm, but as other have mentioned.. it's too easy to grief ? . If you really don't wanna add the sighting+reveal thing, then i'd say it should last at least 10 seconds. And also the cooldown on level 1-2 is really too large.

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1 hour ago, ScrubFactory said:

You mean like it is on say Succubus? Or Voodoo etc?

Sure, but at least both Succubus and Voodoo can position themselves defensively. Nitro has to literally follow their target around

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