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I really don’t get this obsession people seem to have knowing other people’s MMR in midwars.  If you’re high ranked you’ll still be matched against other people at high rank.  Literally nothing will change for high ranked MW.

I just don’t get it.

Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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I only play for midwars mmr. My life now has no meaning.

You got me. Obviously I have 0 knowledge on hero models ?

Seriously!?!? Bring back MMR in MIDWARS please. Such a lame change.

7 minutes ago, MacroHard said:

I really don’t get this obsession people seem to have knowing other people’s MMR in midwars.  If you’re high ranked you’ll still be matched against other people at high rank.  Literally nothing will change for high ranked MW.

I just don’t get it.

Humans naturally like to put labels on everything, and that includes skill level.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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@ElementUser  Hello elementuser I hope you doing great , first of all thank you for trying the best with all of your limited resources  to bring hon to live , it really is hard job and you guys are doing great. 

 

I wanted to send you  tons of thought and feedbacks but sadly I couldn't reach your discord and general forum isn't always a best place to share thoughts  but regardless  here are few changes that I had on my mind that I wanted to share , hopefully it helps  you and if you want  full list I can send it to you or one of staff members so they give it to you .

 

regarding this patch I think many changes you did were good  and game it self is in really good balance , but how ever they are few things that I want to mention .

 

Bushwack :  I really disagree with new change you made to this hero and the reason for it is that  bushwack is one of  those heroes who was really good against heroes who were relying on invisibility for example a good counter to madman who is literally good at any lane and any role ,. removing this ability which was one of its survivability tool  puts him in really undefying position ,  I mean comparing him to his fellow heroes such as silhouette or even tarot , silhouette has long range grapple and good  ulti tarot can reveal and bind heroes to eachother , 

bush doesn't have this kit and now they can really hurt the hero . 

 

adrenaline ; I am really glad you guys brought  Nitro rework to this patch but don't you think Adrenaline deserves its own mana pool , and we remove this LOL mechanism on him  I still don't get it why it has this mana pool and people trying to buy chalice and power supply to solve that problem.

 

Jungle  Role : over these months I really tried to pick jungle role again how ever I really think  jungle creeps give too much experience at early stages of the game. I can reach level 8 with solstice , dragon , tempo , wilsoul and legio in 6 min , that is almost 3 level difference to  my mid hero , 

and I think its bad because tome of elements ,  because tom is gonna boost you really good , so  even if you are playing as sui you get rewarded for doing nothing but getting huge chunk of level suddenly . 

 

one more thing that I need to mention is it will be much  better  if we can buy ophelia pact at above 7 min of the game  

well the first reason is that in 2v2 lanes you see your support leaves its lane to stack at 40 sec to game  and spends almost entire its time to stack jungle while you are getting abused by other 2 heroes , 

and the 2nd reason is that junglers can abuse it really good , i buy it all time when i do jungle role , good investment 

 

and is it possible to change the medium and easy camp place? for god sake it is suppose to be a safe lane  but you guys give much more map control and exp to offlane heroes , I mean nowdays long lanes are aggressive and only few heroes could do well on early stages for example heroes like switft blade who could dodge spells ,because heroes relying on spells in early stages. 

now putting a medium camp near offlane camp they can get map control more exp and even kills ,  I would like least to see you have  lane control over your lane and have more advantage since you are shortlane player . 

 

and lastly here are few staff of master suggestion hope it helps .

 

The dark lady : on staff effect when ever she attacks a hero with her silence  it applies cover of darkness effect I mean whenever she attacks she reduces enemy vision and  when she press R she gains 30% movement speed and 100 more damage ,  reason for this suggestion is that when i see dark lady I see the old nightstalker from Dota  and I think the ulti doesn't really give  her much compare to other heroes, 

 

Ichor ,  on staff effect he can now bring back 30% of damage he takes to enemy hero while he is protecting a hero , you are support player you know supporting isn't fun for most people but what is even worst than that  its when you have to be a human shield , Ichor has really similar mechanism to Marty , how ever marty can use his ulti either to save perfectly or kill a hero , I think with this minor change Ichor  can least put some damage and be little more fun .

 

Silhouette :  whenever she gains a kill or assists she gets harder to  be detected , I have something similar to my mind like Phantom assassin ( if i am not wrong )  how ever silhouette can gain a tree walking like fade ulti . we already talked about it before one thing you guys think that is bad about silhouette its her split push ability , this staff effect makes her to be in team fights more and more suits its ninja design and more importantly you can nerf its ulti by putting a range leash and making her illusions deal less damage to towers. 

 

Tarot: now when an enemy is marked by Farscry , enemies who are close to the hero can take up to 50/40/30/20% of that damage , short way to say it when you use w on hero if someone is close to it it takes the damage so basically tarot attacks stack between heroes unless they start to create distance  .

 

Panda: I am not really a fan of his staff because I think his Q is good on early stages and hero easily gets countred by void talisman which makes him to lose games, ( wza used to say panda is ton of fun but he doesn't win )  now the staff effect i had in my mind is that what if you turn stun on his E to superior , I mean you can still use Void when he flickers you and you can still avoid its ulti but how ever  you get that 2 sec stun so a team mate like PM Damp comes and punish you .

 

 

I hope these changes can help you and bring more fun to our beloved game . have great day everyone ?

 

 

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2 hours ago, doctornik said:

I play lots of Balpha and i know that W reduces your ultimates cd. I replicated a scenario at practise mode just now and from 70 sec cd it went to 25ish until the silence effects ends. 

I temporarily disabled Balphagore as per my recent announcement, thanks

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Wow the Bushwack nerf makes him basically pointless. Why would you chose him now over Tarot or similar hard carries. 

MMR gone in MW.. meh now you have again to check all ppls stats to judge if the game makes sense or not. 

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21 hours ago, `thewizard` said:

Bushwack :  I really disagree with new change you made to this hero and the reason for it is that  bushwack is one of  those heroes who was really good against heroes who were relying on invisibility for example a good counter to madman who is literally good at any lane and any role ,. removing this ability which was one of its survivability tool  puts him in really undefying position ,  I mean comparing him to his fellow heroes such as silhouette or even tarot , silhouette has long range grapple and good  ulti tarot can reveal and bind heroes to eachother , 

bush doesn't have this kit and now they can really hurt the hero . 

I suggested implementing it to his staff effect, to smooth the nerf ?

21 hours ago, `thewizard` said:

and is it possible to change the medium and easy camp place? for god sake it is suppose to be a safe lane  but you guys give much more map control and exp to offlane heroes , I mean nowdays long lanes are aggressive and only few heroes could do well on early stages for example heroes like switft blade who could dodge spells ,because heroes relying on spells in early stages. 

now putting a medium camp near offlane camp they can get map control more exp and even kills ,  I would like least to see you have  lane control over your lane and have more advantage since you are shortlane player . 

 

Disss i agree......  I made a threat about another thing that can be changed regarding this matter at the  balance thread, but your suggestion seems interesting also

 

21 hours ago, `thewizard` said:

Tarot: now when an enemy is marked by Farscry , enemies who are close to the hero can take up to 50/40/30/20% of that damage , short way to say it when you use w on hero if someone is close to it it takes the damage so basically tarot attacks stack between heroes unless they start to create distance  .

I quoted many times that heroes got simplified with no rewards. some times i was wrong ofc, but with tarot i think im correct. You dont get  reward for being able to mark someone, and hit another target, so as your hit will bounce to the marked target. Now it automatically bounces to the nearest hero, making tarot a strong carry that anyone can play at the 100% of damage output she can offer

Edited by doctornik
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19 minutes ago, Zen said:

Just played some Mw and god they suck so much.

Worst patch ever.

  It's the same nightmare over and over again. Clueless people managing the game destroying it.

RIP MW, RIP HON better uninstall  fast

be proud when you see the numbers and give yourself a cookie

You could just install the Mid Wars MMR mod if you really wanted to.

 

It's all psychology though, nothing is actually different other than a visual being hidden from you.

Edited by ElementUser
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I too think Bushwack is useless. You know with his obscene blinks, his ability to crush Kong solo at 6, his Physical Q that penetrates the popular Shrunken Head that melee carries need...

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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On 5/30/2020 at 4:35 PM, ElementUser said:

I'm sure you'll change your mind if you see a clip where Qi just melts everyone's HP at level 11/16. I can't find a Twitch clip of that, but I remember seeing it on either Testie's or Dutchownage's stream. If anyone can find such a clip, feel free to post it in this thread.

The conceptual problem with Qi is that the damage on E/R scales with an opponent's natural attribute that also scales roughly the same amount even on heroes that don't normally build Attack Damage. Because of this problem, he melts HP pools of heroes that he shouldn't, when his goal is to only melt heroes that have high Attack Damage. However, the difference in Attack Damage for the heroes that actually build it isn't high enough (from an absolute/mathematical standpoint) compared to any hero's natural damage scaling.

Because of this flawed concept, Qi will either be remade to do something else, or the entire concept has to be rebalanced appropriately with new mathematical equations. Basing it off just Attack Damage is not enough, and because every hero has pretty similar natural scaling, it's not easy to distinguish what the scaling/threshold of power should be against heroes that build autoattack-based DPS vs. those that don't/those that build a hybrid.

 

In other words, Qi's concept & its execution/implementation is flawed & causes an unfair level of frustration with little to no counterplay, so the power has to be kept in check until it can be fixed. The process of fixing this takes an ample amount of time to do properly (from design + conceptual, to getting a first draft, to getting iterations, to implementation, to adding VFX/SFX, to QA testing). Needless to say, there's a lot more that goes into a rework than what the players think.

I will have to wait and see but with Qi being one of my favourite heroes (so I will admit some bias here) and a lot of play time with him I understand where you are coming from with respect to his potentially insane damage output BUT my suspicion is you may have been overly aggressive on the nerf here... And I really hope hope it wasn't motivated by a few clips of top tier players making insane plays.

My experience with Qi since the previous nerf with tapering damage made a noticeable difference between consistently pulling off clutch ults and otherwise simply dealing with your primary target i.e. the enemy carry. This to me was a subtle change that had the intended effect whilst leaving room for a more confident and experienced player to take greater risks with their positioning to increase their damage output (this was a really well executed design choice).

Now though I fear that a reduction in base dmg and 60% of attack dmg at all levels you may have severely undermined the one thing he was always meant to do well - anti carry!

As long as I could pull off his Q in time I felt confident that I could deal with the enemy carry but only dependent on how they built - my biggest concern in match was an enemy str carry who knew the score with Qi. A hero like Hammer or Berserker with Insanitarius/Frostwolf/Whispering into Symbol hard counters my ult leaving me with Q just to make sure they can't auto, but then again this is kinda the deal with Qi - disable the carry and nuke the people who are foolish enough to stack attack dmg.

The first "nerf" to Qi was totally headed in the right direction and maybe some consideration to how his passive plays into the damage scaling factor would alleviate the issues you have with his nuke potential against supports and the like, but its not like we don't have other semi-support heroes that can effectively do the same thing - ws, polly, voodoo...

Qi is one of the more interesting hero designs you guys have produced recently and with all due respect "Qi's concept & its execution/implementation is flawed" seems an unusual conclusion to reach (somewhat out of the blue as well) considering the fairly limited time since the previous patch to see what effect it has had on the hero. This conclusion is made even more worrying with the suggestion that it may force a complete rework of the hero!

Please note the italics because: "Needless to say, there's a lot more that goes into a rework than what the players think", I am not a game dev but experience in my own industry translates easily enough that I appreciate the difficulties that come about with redesign and balance.

Like I said Qi is one of my favourites (replacing Kinesis after his rework), so yes I am somewhat bias here, but I really hope potential changes made in the future remain numerical and not a complete rework.

ps. possible suggestions: full ult dmg only applies to target (maybe targeted with Q or E?), Ancestral Assault behaves more like myrm weed field, so a slight delay (easier to see and avoid before it activates and gives it more of a skill shot quality)?... Just some quick ideas off the top of my head.

I hope this has been constructive and I will report back once I have a healthy amount of Qi games under my belt.

 

 

Edited by iamrudd
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1 hour ago, ElementUser said:

So your point is something else entirely, aka you strawmaned. Okay.

Hello! I got 2 questions - were the mastery boosts removed from the game ( I had quite many unused) and why the silver prices in the shop are still uncut?

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27 minutes ago, ArrowDoctor said:

Hello! I got 2 questions - were the mastery boosts removed from the game ( I had quite many unused) and why the silver prices in the shop are still uncut?

For the shop prices, there was a bug in retail.

Here is the post. Instead they increased the MM Multiplier from 4x to 5x.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Mastery Boosts are likely not going to work in the future (since you can't see the post-match screen for Mastery Boosts). We've looked into it many times when we found out it was broken, but unfortunately we could not see why. Also, we don't have the resources to further look into it.

 

The Mastery system itself is working just fine though.

Edited by ElementUser
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Just now, ElementUser said:

Mastery Boosts are likely not going to work in the future (since you can't see the post-match screen for Mastery Boosts). We've looked into it many times when we found out it was broken, but unfortunately we could not see why. Also, we don't have the resources to further look into it.

 

The Mastery system itself is working just fine though.

Ok, ty.
One more question came up - why it's not possible to see all the chat symbols for purchased alternate avatars in the vault?

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1 hour ago, ElementUser said:

É provável que o Mastery Boosts não funcione no futuro (já que você não pode ver a tela pós-jogo do Mastery Boosts). Examinamos isso muitas vezes quando descobrimos que estava quebrado, mas, infelizmente, não conseguimos entender o porquê. Além disso, não temos recursos para analisar melhor.

 

O sistema Mastery em si está funcionando muito bem.

is there a possibility of the mastery ranking being updated?  i managed to complete lvl 15 mastery for all heroes.  I would really like this updated rank.  I'm sad to not be able to enjoy the hon birthday using plinko tickets.  taking advantage of the contact I would like to request a gift add 2 plinko to my account, so I can cast my last luck.

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9 hours ago, MacroHard said:

I really don’t get this obsession people seem to have knowing other people’s MMR in midwars.  If you’re high ranked you’ll still be matched against other people at high rank.  Literally nothing will change for high ranked MW.

I just don’t get it.

Once you get high enough there arent enough players to mm evenly. After 1850 most games are +-0.4 mmr. It might be fun to play if someone on the other team is high aswell but now you wont know. 

Imo they ruined it for no reason. FoC players dont care about mw mmr anyway and players who like mw better got punished just to make the mode more casual for players who didn't care to begin with

Edited by SupaPowaXXL
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I've been playing MW for ~10 years now, and can say that making MMR visible a few years ago was responsible for a dramatic increase in the average MW game quality, and skill level. For instance, before mmr was made visible, our stack got several accounts to 1850+ without even considering it. After it was made visible, we noticed that games which were once easy stomps actually had some difficulty. It is my opinion that removing visible MMRs will have the opposite effect, and regress the average skill level, making good games even fewer and far between.

Seeing MMR of your allies and enemies is high signal for whether the game will be good or not. When a 1900 stack gets matched up with 1500s, a remake is almost always passed. Now, it's a guessing game. Same thing with people on your own team. Is my ally Magmus going to be dependable as our single initiator or do I need to cover his role with a secondary jump?

High level MW has its own meta, strats, team comps, and split-second fast paced gameplay not found in any MOBA outside of HoN. In many ways, I (along with a lot of people I know), only ever play HoN for the MW, because Dota 2 is available for normal games. I feel like this MW change will have a largely negative impact on players who decided to play for the mmr, only to have it now be visually hidden.
 

Why fix something that isn't broken?

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Having played a couple of midwars games now, I don't really care all that much about whether or not the MMR is visible, 90% of the time high midwars mmr players know who the other high mmr players are anyway.

I do however have an issue with the bounty rune that spawns every 30 seconds, it is beyond a joke. The spawn heavily favours the hellbourne side of the map and it allows pretty much any hero to jungle with a bottle, gaining gpm boost every 30 seconds and basically infinite bottle charges with almost no threat from the legion because of the layout of the map. If the hellbourne has a semi-agressive team then this bounty rune basically allows the hellbourne to gain a risk free gold and exp advantage. Now warding the neutral camp *potentially* prevents it being farmed however in several games i have encountered players willing to aggressively counter blocked camps and will still be able to gain some advantage.

Ideally I think the bounty rune should spawn on the other side of the map, near the transmutanstien/zargoth/snotter boss pit and travel along the river from there as that side of the map already recieves much less focus than the upper/left side of the map. I also think that the spawn frequency of the spawn frequency of the rune should be lowered, as right now buying a bottle for the bounty rune provides an insane amount of value with very little downside (~8 runes to pay off bottle if you plan on selling it mid/late) basically the bottle has paid for itself by around 4-5 minutes into the game.

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Patch notes say:

Spoiler

Ichor

Transfusion
- Percentage of damage transferred from the affected ally to Ichor reduced from 50/60/70/80% to 30/40/50/60%.
- When used on an enemy, no longer transfers Stuns to the enemy.

You still get stunned when Ichor transfers the "Glacial Blasts" of Tempest.

Bug or intended?

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