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Patch 4.8.4 discussion thread


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10 hours ago, haradon said:

I get what u are trying to say but i personally prefer if there is a hero that can output a lot of damage then it should have a major disadvantage and in Qi's case its his low suvivability. Like seriously every game i played good with Qi, the enemy team RIGHTLY focused me before each fight. I agree that it can output major damage to carry (erases hammer storm from the map) but was it really outputting that much damage to non-carry heroes?

Suppose a support with 150 damage mid game, previous patch Qi's ulti will do about 725 superior magic damage (not that huge of a burst compared to dampeer boi), it does seem a lot of damage BUT think about it in a fight situation, the enemy team knows they shouldn't stand close to each other or they don't say 'hey lets walk in a straight line for lols' ( unless its a combo with tempest etc which is totally an other thing ). Why would someone playing Qi would focus a non-carry hero or say by chance Qi can manage to land ulti on say 3 heroes but why would that even happen if the enemy team is aware that Qi is a serious threat and is easily countered with items or heroes or jump on him, its too easy to kill/shutdown Qi. Its potential lies within focusing the carry and i dont think any Qi player would land ulti on non-carry heroes in a fight and avoid carry. Qi requires proper items to become useful and survive and its not just about pressing R.

Suppose in lane Qi decides to land ulti on a support with 100 dmg he would only do 525 superior magic damage, with 80 sec cd i doubt anyone would throw it on a support (lvl 16) whereas Witch slayer would do 850 magic damage (lvl 16) with 55 sec cd. The comparison isnt fair but it puts into perspective that its not REALLY that unbalanced as it seems on paper.

I Agree with you @ElementUser on that unintended mechanism but within gameplay it seems plausible. And isnt this the purpose of the game, to outplay your opponent by playing smart (picking items like Hellflower or even a Pk jump on Qi will render him useless).

The people who are not familiar with Qi enough are the ones that get 'melted' (0.2% usage ?). Anyone who knows how potent Qi can be WILL COUNTER IT (heck pick vindi). So i say if something seems OP then it should also have weakness and i feel like with these changes, For me Qi would end up having the same fate as Nitro.

But at the end its just how i feel towards this and in my opinion its just unnecessary nerfing.

I played alot of Qi. 

He was supposed to be "carry killer" with his E. 

However. Supports and other nukers (Every Hero in the game except behemoth and Magmus) get a lot of atk dng by buullding core items and becomes vurnerable without a Choice vs Qi. 

I loved solo killing almost Any Hero onn the Map. Except Magmus and behemoth. They have 0 dmg.

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I only play for midwars mmr. My life now has no meaning.

You got me. Obviously I have 0 knowledge on hero models ?

Seriously!?!? Bring back MMR in MIDWARS please. Such a lame change.

I used to play HoN China client , I can say that not only Aluna avatar(CN) is so bad, all the Chinese avatar are so bad.

So does Midas avatar(CN) Legionnaire avatar(CN) Dampeer avatar(CN) Arachna avatar(CN).

Its nothing to do with the higher-definition, it is the model itself is so bad.

Legionnaire avatar(CN) is a joke, its like a walking crab (many of my Chinese friends also said this avatar is so bad).

I hope someday they can change back the avatars.

Edited by fattythrow
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Pretty excited about the Geostalk change - I proposed this exact mechanic in SBT long ago when the Geo rework happened and I don't think it was ever tried.  Thematically, it made much more sense and should provide a lot more tension and skill to playing Geomancer!

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On 5/31/2020 at 4:29 AM, fattythrow said:

I used to play HoN China client , I can say that not only Aluna avatar(CN) is so bad, all the Chinese avatar are so bad.

So does Midas avatar(CN) Legionnaire avatar(CN) Dampeer avatar(CN) Arachna avatar(CN).

Its nothing to do with the higher-definition, it is the model itself is so bad.

Legionnaire avatar(CN) is a joke, its like a walking crab (many of my Chinese friends also said this avatar is so bad).

I hope someday they can change back the avatars.

This is a prime example of bad constructive criticism and just a straight out biased opinion. Why is it bad? Where is the walking crab you describe in the default legionnaire skin? 

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1 hour ago, Whyzozerious said:

This is a prime example of bad constructive criticism and just a straight out biased opinion. Why is it bad? Where is the walking crab you describe in the default legionnaire skin? 

Pssshh... he CLEARLY said those hero models are bad!  What do YOU know about hero models!?

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Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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11 hours ago, Whyzozerious said:

This is a prime example of bad constructive criticism and just a straight out biased opinion. Why is it bad? Where is the walking crab you describe in the default legionnaire skin? 

just look at the way he walking.

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9 minutes ago, CLANMAIN said:

The hag staff nerf was needed. The balph buff will be fun. The MW mmr removal is sad ? Can't wait to troll with the kane staff. 

You will still be able to see your personal MW MMR, which is what is important.  There is no constructive value to seeing other players’.

Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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On 5/29/2020 at 2:32 PM, Zen said:

** hidden MW mmr

 

Killing the game again and again.

For the 30 people who play foc "to have fun" with it.

I thought EU was a smart guy, have to reconsider.

Harsh but I agree.

I only play mw. Its a faster more intense game mode and the banning pick makes the lineups diverse plus if you get a griefer on your team you don't have to suffer for up to an hour like in FoC.

Removing the mmr from pick screen will not make the game mode more fun if you ask me. Low-medium mmr mw is already a fun/chill game where people try new heroes and item builds. High mmr mw is more meta oriented and people who want the competetiveness of that should be able to enjoy the game they way they want to and not be told they can't enjoy the game because other players should have a "playground".

From my experience whenever a group of high players get matched vs a much lower team, resulting in +0.1/-10 mmr for high and +10/-0.1 for lower the game is almost always remade. This type of game would not be fun for anyone involved and would be counterproductive for a "fun mode".

MMR is a way to see what to expect from a player. Removing it will not create more fun.

Edited by SupaPowaXXL
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11 minutes ago, supapowaxxl said:

Harsh but I agree.

I only play mw. Its a faster more intense game mode and the banning pick makes the lineups diverse plus if you get a griefer on your team you don't have to suffer for up to an hour like in FoC.

Removing the mmr from pick screen will not make the game mode more fun if you ask me. Low-medium mmr mw is already a fun/chill game where people try new heroes and item builds. High mmr mw is more meta oriented and people who want the competetiveness of that should be able to enjoy the game they way they want to and not be told they can't enjoy the game because other players should have a "playground".

From my experience whenever a group of high players get matched vs a much lower team, resulting in +0.1/-10 mmr for high and +10/-0.1 for lower the game is almost always remade. This type of game would not be fun for anyone involved and would be counterproductive for a "fun mode".

MMR is a way to see what to expect from a player. Removing it will create more fun.

Please re-read the patch notes for that section. It was changed to display your own Mid Wars MMR only to yourself.

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4 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

Please re-read the patch notes for that section. It was changed to display your own Mid Wars MMR only to yourself.

I saw that.

Why not people enjoy the game the way they want to? 

If you feel we need unranked fun modes create a "no rank/ no mmr" option when entering queue for both foc and mw. This way people can have fun and learn on both maps while ranked becomes more serious for both.

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8 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

Because it splits the queues. 

The unranked q can still have short q time if it disregards mmr.

Players who in the competitive q will wait longer but the quality of games should increase creating a more enjoyable experience. 

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18 minutes ago, Diabetis said:

@ElementUserthere is also a pretty big unintentional bug in regards of Balphagore staff ult. But I would need plenty of time and space to explain it. Long story short, if you use ult on 4 people... you gonna have another ult again in 5-10 secs. Because W that spreads on enemies also reset your ult CD.

I would suggest that W from your R, doesn't reset cd on your ult. It might be hard for you to understand or for someone who doesn't play the hero often.

I play lots of Balpha and i know that W reduces your ultimates cd. I replicated a scenario at practise mode just now and from 70 sec cd it went to 25ish until the silence effects ends. 

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@Diabetis yes you are correct, as there is the cd reduction by spell usage, plus ur cd reduction from Demonic Pathogen. Well i guess this is unintended ? ,
*with full charges still went 20-25ish, but with 2 3 more spells it was indeed up again in no time 

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I really don’t get this obsession people seem to have knowing other people’s MMR in midwars.  If you’re high ranked you’ll still be matched against other people at high rank.  Literally nothing will change for high ranked MW.

I just don’t get it.

Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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7 minutes ago, MacroHard said:

I really don’t get this obsession people seem to have knowing other people’s MMR in midwars.  If you’re high ranked you’ll still be matched against other people at high rank.  Literally nothing will change for high ranked MW.

I just don’t get it.

Humans naturally like to put labels on everything, and that includes skill level.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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@ElementUser  Hello elementuser I hope you doing great , first of all thank you for trying the best with all of your limited resources  to bring hon to live , it really is hard job and you guys are doing great. 

 

I wanted to send you  tons of thought and feedbacks but sadly I couldn't reach your discord and general forum isn't always a best place to share thoughts  but regardless  here are few changes that I had on my mind that I wanted to share , hopefully it helps  you and if you want  full list I can send it to you or one of staff members so they give it to you .

 

regarding this patch I think many changes you did were good  and game it self is in really good balance , but how ever they are few things that I want to mention .

 

Bushwack :  I really disagree with new change you made to this hero and the reason for it is that  bushwack is one of  those heroes who was really good against heroes who were relying on invisibility for example a good counter to madman who is literally good at any lane and any role ,. removing this ability which was one of its survivability tool  puts him in really undefying position ,  I mean comparing him to his fellow heroes such as silhouette or even tarot , silhouette has long range grapple and good  ulti tarot can reveal and bind heroes to eachother , 

bush doesn't have this kit and now they can really hurt the hero . 

 

adrenaline ; I am really glad you guys brought  Nitro rework to this patch but don't you think Adrenaline deserves its own mana pool , and we remove this LOL mechanism on him  I still don't get it why it has this mana pool and people trying to buy chalice and power supply to solve that problem.

 

Jungle  Role : over these months I really tried to pick jungle role again how ever I really think  jungle creeps give too much experience at early stages of the game. I can reach level 8 with solstice , dragon , tempo , wilsoul and legio in 6 min , that is almost 3 level difference to  my mid hero , 

and I think its bad because tome of elements ,  because tom is gonna boost you really good , so  even if you are playing as sui you get rewarded for doing nothing but getting huge chunk of level suddenly . 

 

one more thing that I need to mention is it will be much  better  if we can buy ophelia pact at above 7 min of the game  

well the first reason is that in 2v2 lanes you see your support leaves its lane to stack at 40 sec to game  and spends almost entire its time to stack jungle while you are getting abused by other 2 heroes , 

and the 2nd reason is that junglers can abuse it really good , i buy it all time when i do jungle role , good investment 

 

and is it possible to change the medium and easy camp place? for god sake it is suppose to be a safe lane  but you guys give much more map control and exp to offlane heroes , I mean nowdays long lanes are aggressive and only few heroes could do well on early stages for example heroes like switft blade who could dodge spells ,because heroes relying on spells in early stages. 

now putting a medium camp near offlane camp they can get map control more exp and even kills ,  I would like least to see you have  lane control over your lane and have more advantage since you are shortlane player . 

 

and lastly here are few staff of master suggestion hope it helps .

 

The dark lady : on staff effect when ever she attacks a hero with her silence  it applies cover of darkness effect I mean whenever she attacks she reduces enemy vision and  when she press R she gains 30% movement speed and 100 more damage ,  reason for this suggestion is that when i see dark lady I see the old nightstalker from Dota  and I think the ulti doesn't really give  her much compare to other heroes, 

 

Ichor ,  on staff effect he can now bring back 30% of damage he takes to enemy hero while he is protecting a hero , you are support player you know supporting isn't fun for most people but what is even worst than that  its when you have to be a human shield , Ichor has really similar mechanism to Marty , how ever marty can use his ulti either to save perfectly or kill a hero , I think with this minor change Ichor  can least put some damage and be little more fun .

 

Silhouette :  whenever she gains a kill or assists she gets harder to  be detected , I have something similar to my mind like Phantom assassin ( if i am not wrong )  how ever silhouette can gain a tree walking like fade ulti . we already talked about it before one thing you guys think that is bad about silhouette its her split push ability , this staff effect makes her to be in team fights more and more suits its ninja design and more importantly you can nerf its ulti by putting a range leash and making her illusions deal less damage to towers. 

 

Tarot: now when an enemy is marked by Farscry , enemies who are close to the hero can take up to 50/40/30/20% of that damage , short way to say it when you use w on hero if someone is close to it it takes the damage so basically tarot attacks stack between heroes unless they start to create distance  .

 

Panda: I am not really a fan of his staff because I think his Q is good on early stages and hero easily gets countred by void talisman which makes him to lose games, ( wza used to say panda is ton of fun but he doesn't win )  now the staff effect i had in my mind is that what if you turn stun on his E to superior , I mean you can still use Void when he flickers you and you can still avoid its ulti but how ever  you get that 2 sec stun so a team mate like PM Damp comes and punish you .

 

 

I hope these changes can help you and bring more fun to our beloved game . have great day everyone ?

 

 

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2 hours ago, doctornik said:

I play lots of Balpha and i know that W reduces your ultimates cd. I replicated a scenario at practise mode just now and from 70 sec cd it went to 25ish until the silence effects ends. 

I temporarily disabled Balphagore as per my recent announcement, thanks

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