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datfizh

Middle Lane Hero(es)

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I open this discussion because recently I saw several threads discussing the heroes at middle lane, Hellbringer and Arachna for instance. So, let me ask the other's opinion about:

  • Which hero(es) do(es) usually take middle lane?
  • What's so good about the hero(es) mentioned on previous question so (s)he worth takes middle lane?
  • Which hero(es) do(es) possibly contest the hero(es) mentioned in first question? Or what kind of strategy is needed to contest the hero?

This is my first time opening this discussion, so I also open up the feedback about this thread as well. Though, those questions still needs to be answered beside the feedback given.

Thank you.

 

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Posted (edited)

A mid hero can do multiple different things and any hero that does any of those well, can go mid. That doesn't mean it's a good or the best choice, but an option.

1. Good Harassment of enemy, forces enemy to miss last hits or use more regen - Magmus (for meele), Salforis and Thunderbringer are good examples
2. Good push, if enemy leaves mid they loose xp and their tower is going down fast  - Balphagore and Defiler
3. Good gank, if you win top and bottom because you can gank a lot, you win games - a lot of heroes do this, including Hellbringer and Arachna
4. Good rune control, which kinda only buffs the 3rd point, but is worth extra mentioning - example: bubbles

Answering the counter-question is kinda difficult. Mid lane is not (only) about winning mid-lane.
If your enemy harasses you, you can pick a ganker. Simply leave him alone and win other lanes.
If you encounter a ganker, you can pick a pusher. If he ganks, you kill his tower.
If you encoutner a pusher, you can pick good harassment and prevent him from farming/pushing.

Edited by Manu311
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26 minutes ago, datfizh said:

Which hero(es) do(es) usually take middle lane?

The number of middlaners is high, though as your question leads to strong midlaners, (after seeing the next questions) im gonna refer to  my top 5  try hard picks:
1) Succubus, 2) Ellonia, 3) Arachna, 4)  Amun Ra , 5) Zephyr

27 minutes ago, datfizh said:

What's so good about the hero(es) mentioned on previous question so (s)he worth takes middle lane?

Im gonna reply in short, not over extend with words:
1) Succubus : Ranged, True damage -> into lifesteal for you, Sleep .. u cant kill her 1 v 1 for no reason at all, and even with a gank killing her is a tough task
2) Ellonia: If you are taking melee hero for mid you insta lost mid, If you are ranged you will suffer from the constant spam of her Q and W, and their low mana cost
3) Arachna: Ranged,Orbwalking. If you are mellee hero you just play like you are on a suicide lane, sit back and get your exp :D. Also her damage output combined with the orbwalking can outharass any hero she has against her. 
4) Amun Ra:, a good Q on you, and u have to run back, especially if you are playing intelligent heroes against him . Even with strength heroes against him u can suffer. He may not kill you but you are going to have a hard time . Also he has a good amount of health regen early on, an aura for damage around him  and his spells have a good burst. If you are a good player you cant die with this hero 1 vs 1. He is kinda  a simila rzephyr -mid playstyle. Rush helmet , no bottle etc etc. BUT the hard thing about Ra is that you cant possibly know he is going mid, unless you check his games, or know the player etc. So you cant contest him with a range hero lets say

5)Zephyr: Cyclones.   If you are  solo queuing and picked  a melee for mid, and noone wants to gank, then you are going to suffer a lot.
 

38 minutes ago, datfizh said:

Which hero(es) do(es) possibly contest the hero(es) mentioned in first question? Or what kind of strategy is needed to contest the hero?

* These are the strats i would use, there are many heroes in the pool to mention if i wanted, also the strats are a lot. So i will just reply in short with what i am doing/ or i think i have to do.
1)Succubus: I cant think of anyone constesting her mid 1 vs 1. The strats are: either to burst her down before she lifesteals from you. But that means you have a bad Succubus player against you, or ask for a gank from a good ganker( ex witch slayer) provided you are playing something like chipper lets say( so you can nuke her). 
2) Ellonia: A gank will suffice, intelligent hero, no escape, just raw damage in her toolkit. Maybe sometimes she can take someone with her in the grave though xD
3) Arachna: When i see arachna mid, i mostly pick magmus long lane, and around level 4( mid lane level 4, not mine) i rotate with a rot 🙂
4) Amun Ra: Need a good rotation early on from a stunner imo. But you need communication for that, as most people will underestimate the power of Ra , so they might ignore you.And believe me a high level Ra and with farm is a pain in the ***** !!!!, also my go choice for going against him mid is always Ellonia ❤️ . If he is a good player he might not die, and he might harass me also, but i will make sure this lane is contested to the limits.
5)Zephyr:  You need a nuker against him, like Ellonia to get contested. Also a gank might not be enough to kill him. It needs to have some criteria the gank( maybe have him on ur cliff, harrass him a bit,so he is not full hp, maybe have a good rune in ur bottle) 

Generally as i was writing this i noticed that there are so many different ways to play against them mid, and also so many more  options of heroes that go mid that i dont think a post should suffice to describe everything. 
There are a lot of heroes that go mid,a lot of the scenarios following a mid lane, and what is going to happen in the game. For example while i was thinking what to write in my mind came  Fayde. Which is a different kind of middlaner. She just hit 6 and snowballs easily. So that is a general try hard pick, not a try hard mid pick. But at the same time a fun pick.
So i do believe the replies in this post should be directed to the personal flavour of each one of us, and be more specified , as the replies on this subject can be vast. 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, doctornik said:


4) Amun Ra:, a good Q on you, and u have to run back, especially if you are playing intelligent heroes against him . Even with strength heroes against him u can suffer. He may not kill you but you are going to have a hard time . Also he has a good amount of health regen early on, an aura for damage around him  and his spells have a good burst. If you are a good player you cant die with this hero 1 vs 1. He is kinda  a simila rzephyr -mid playstyle. Rush helmet , no bottle etc etc. BUT the hard thing about Ra is that you cant possibly know he is going mid, unless you check his games, or know the player etc. So you cant contest him with a range hero lets say

IMO Ra is one of the absolute WORST Mid heroes. He has some viability against very specific melee heroes but his extreme squishiness at low levels makes him fish food for most ranged mids. If you're against a Grinex or a Nomad- I guess he's okay despite having very little rune control capability and being extremely susceptible to ganks before level 6.
You seriously think that Ra more deserving of a top 5 mid list over Kraken, Oogie, PEBBLES, devo, pharoah or Deadwood? I rest my case.

People overthink "Who can go mid". Just look at what the lane gives you.
-Access to runes

-Faster leveling

-Pivot point between lanes/Jungle.

 

I refuse to argue that you need a specific purpose or role for a certain hero to be able to perform well in the mid lane. It's situational like everything else in this game. For example:
You're against a skilled succubus mid- Might want to dual lane it.

Your team has picked a pushing lineup- Defiler or Slither.

Your team lacks CC or disables- Polywog or Witch slayer.

High possibility of facing a melee mid- Pebbles or Magmus.

Worried about your team's suicide abilities and need to help long lane? Draconis, Chipper or Pharoah.

#1 thing people fail about this game in lower brackets is picking screen. There is no right answer for a pick. It depends on the situation and your playstyle of any particular hero.

Heroes I enjoy playing mid the most: Kraken, Hellbringer, Chipper, Hag, Pyro, Torturer, Ellonia, Riftwalker, Pyro, Deadwood, Slither, PEBBLES, Soulstealer (only if I'm last pick), Zephyr. 

Edited by DitchMitch

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Posted (edited)
11 hours ago, DitchMitch said:

IMO Ra is one of the absolute WORST Mid heroes. He has some viability against very specific melee heroes but his extreme squishiness at low levels makes him fish food for most ranged mids. If you're against a Grinex or a Nomad- I guess he's okay despite having very little rune control capability and being extremely susceptible to ganks before level 6.
You seriously think that Ra more deserving of a top 5 mid list over Kraken, Oogie, PEBBLES, devo, pharoah or Deadwood? I rest my case.

  1)  First of all lets make something clear. I dont like the attitude you approached my answer. It was my top 5. not yours. My reply not yours. It is a thread in General Discussion asking for each ones personal opinions.I put effort to reply with detail and so on. And i see a quoted reply, starting with IMO in capitals, and ending with: `You seriously think..... i rest my case'. And for that reason im going to reply to you, instead of ignoring you. 

 

2) Lets revise my post

15 hours ago, doctornik said:

4) Amun Ra:, a good Q on you, and u have to run back, especially if you are playing intelligent heroes against him .

->Have u ever played as lets say a 500 hp hero against a level 4 Ra who level ups Q and E? propably not. When you face a  good player i mean, coz as i checked your account i dont think u are playing with lots of good players, and i dont think you are a High TMM player(as you mentioned something about lower brackets)  judging by the fact you are in
Gold 4 with 1,31 kd,305 gpm and 0,8 wards placed after 40 matches played and you are 90% playing mid with 2 games as jungler, and some other as short farm carry. 

 

15 hours ago, doctornik said:

also my go choice for going against him mid is always Ellonia

->Hmm ranged nuker hmmmmm.  Thank god you had to point me out the solution coz i obv didnt mentioned it in my post 

 

You mentioned something about squishiness:
- All heroes have 5 magic armor. What differs is their starting  Armor. Amun Ra has 2,25.  There are 36 heroes before Ra in terms of `squishiness` . 


Some of them? : Devourer 1.16, Pebbles 1.14 , Maliken 0,5, Salomon 1,86, Drunken Master 1,88, Apex 2 , Pharaoh 2,20 , and 29 more 🙂.
You are stuck maybe in an old RA where he had 1,5 starting armor. Well that aint the case anymore 🙂

There are 139 heroes in the pool. I played them all. Multiple times. There are what 11-12 try hard mid picks?. I saw your picks. And you are just rotating between them.   Ellonia, to Pebbles , to Emerald, to Succubus ,to Corrupted, to Bombardier, to Kraken, to Deadwood and goes on. Well i do not. I play them also ofc,I tryhard also  but im getting easily bored.``Easy`` is not fun always, thats why  Im rotating between all the mid heroes. And some times i choose also unconventional midlaners. And yes it occurs when opponent RA is a good player and i cant judge he is coming mid, to not be able to get a proper pick for him, and have a suffer time mid.  Thats why he got into my top 5 list. 

 Ending and never replying to you again,just to provide you an information you are unaware of and HoNeducate you a bit more, the Ra mid trend was firmly established by Testie. And some of those games where against high TMM EU players sniping him. cheers.

 

Edited by doctornik
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I like how the first 3 examples of good mid heroes you gave us, are all heroes that would COMPLETELY destroy Ra/Zephyr mid.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, TehNubZar said:

I like how the first 3 examples of good mid heroes you gave us, are all heroes that would COMPLETELY destroy Ra/Zephyr mid.

no need to write `completely' with capital letters. It doesnt provide more echo and dynamic to your comment. even with small letters it can provide the same dynamic and the same meaning. sanks

Edited by doctornik
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Posted (edited)

Well yeah, making a word all capital letters doesn't change its meaning... It add emphasis (underlining would've accomplished the same), as Ra is indeed undeniably irrefutable demolished mid vs any nuker with a half a brain.

Salforis does what Ra does mid, but better, as he can actually sustain himself using W (and sapping regen with E). Salforis can also gank a lot lot easier than Ra, because he doesn't have a useless passive selfish ultimate.

Edited by TehNubZar

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Obviously Succu/Ello and even Bomb are top tier. Artesia and Revenant are also extremely good but underestimated in most brackets.

The only melee heroes that can contest ranged heroes are those that have lifesteal. The best one would be salforis. BH works in lower brackets but suffers vs good players.

My current favorite is Xemplar. He struggles a bit early vs ranged but if you manage not to lose too hard and get at least your bottle and preferable red boots he is a threat to almost every hero as soon as he got his ult and even you might have lost the first minutes you easily recover. 

 

In general a mid hero should be a good ganker. There is no point going mid just to farm - you need to help winning lanes. Therefor heroes like SS/flint should not be played mid lane (not to mention their squishyness and lack of escape so they instantly die to any gank).

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Posted (edited)
On 5/19/2020 at 7:54 PM, doctornik said:

  1)  First of all lets make something clear. I dont like the attitude you approached my answer. It was my top 5. not yours. My reply not yours. It is a thread in General Discussion asking for each ones personal opinions.I put effort to reply with detail and so on. And i see a quoted reply, starting with IMO in capitals, and ending with: `You seriously think..... i rest my case'. And for that reason im going to reply to you, instead of ignoring you. 

I'm sorry you didn't like my attitude buddy. Hope I didn't hurt your feelers too bad there sport. Just like you're entitled to your opinion I'm entitled to mine. Ra mid is trash. Just because "AnGrY TesTIe DoEs It" doesn't prove it to be valuable mid hero WHATSOEVER LOL. 

 

You mentioned something about squishiness:
- All heroes have 5 magic armor. What differs is their starting  Armor. Amun Ra has 2,25.  There are 36 heroes before Ra in terms of `squishiness` . 
Some of them? : Devourer 1.16, Pebbles 1.14 , Maliken 0,5, Salomon 1,86, Drunken Master 1,88, Apex 2 , Pharaoh 2,20 , and 29 more 🙂.
You are stuck maybe in an old RA where he had 1,5 starting armor. Well that aint the case anymore 🙂

There are 139 heroes in the pool. I played them all. Multiple times. There are what 11-12 try hard mid picks?. I saw your picks. And you are just rotating between them.   Ellonia, to Pebbles , to Emerald, to Succubus ,to Corrupted, to Bombardier, to Kraken, to Deadwood and goes on. Well i do not. I play them also ofc,I tryhard also  but im getting easily bored.``Easy`` is not fun always, thats why  Im rotating between all the mid heroes. And some times i choose also unconventional midlaners. And yes it occurs when opponent RA is a good player and i cant judge he is coming mid, to not be able to get a proper pick for him, and have a suffer time mid.  Thats why he got into my top 5 list. 

 Ending and never replying to you again,just to provide you an information you are unaware of and HoNeducate you a bit more, the Ra mid trend was firmly established by Testie. And some of those games where against high TMM EU players sniping him. cheers.

Before you probably started playing this game there was a mode called AR. And that's all i played. I have a total of over 10k games there sport and Ive played since beta. SHHH. I appreciate you trying to Honeducate me but maybe learn to play yourself there buddy.


Like I said I'm entitled to my opinion just like you. Ra sucks mid. Please do it against me so I can rightly put you in your place.

SPLISH SPLASH YOUR OPINION IS TRASH.

Funny someone with your stats is posting other peoples'... lol. Give me a break.

Edited by DitchMitch

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15 hours ago, TehNubZar said:

 

Oh god there's still people that Ra Mid in this game? I thought it was 2020 not 2014

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Just now, Freeskier31 said:

Oh god there's still people that Ra Mid in this game? I thought it was 2020 not 2014

You cant fix stupid.

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i really love the fact that the first time being in this forums was 2 hours ago by both of you and that you only commented  to  this post to reply to me ❤️
also i had some spare time and i checked some things, and downloaded some replays . All felt so familiar 🙄

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5 hours ago, DitchMitch said:

SPLISH SPLASH YOUR OPINION IS TRASH.

This does not contribute to the discussion in a constructive way.

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9 minutes ago, Falk1 said:

This does not contribute to the discussion in a constructive way.

Its not- But that is  not the main point I made. Ra is not even close to better than many other mid melee choices. So many more other viable melee mids much better than RA 

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2 hours ago, DitchMitch said:

Its not- 

Thanks for admitting it. However this thread is not really about mid heroes anymore.

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