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Posted (edited)

 -Arachna and Ellonia felt kinda too strong when i was playing them. So as i did a post about them in the past, i have to make a post about my new mid hero Hellbringer .  I am not going to speak about the heroe's burst damage, as i think is pretty ok. He is just one of the best mids imo. And i like that. Coz Hellbringer used to be like this in the old days. And i like his place now.But i do have to speak about the crazy lifesteal he can get.

-I dont know if you guys are aware of the lifesteal this guy does but I saw  every aspect of how strong it can be. From midlaner( played it myself there) to hard carry( watched Dutch playing it). I do believe that the  passive 20% lifesteal from every source of damage and adding the demons active effect( the 30% damage received on heroes returning as lifesteal) is kinda imba.

- Consider that the passive bonus of Symbol is 25% on just autoattacks, whether Hellbringers passive is 20%(inactive) and 30% (active) are from all the damage sources.
 I cant judge what the correct changes on values can be, or the type of lifesteal etc. Or maybe im exaggerating , but thats how i feel about the hero atm.   I consider that the toolkit of this hero is so strong ,each spell individually. He is a massive cc hero, he always was.

-Aside his lifesteal ability, just a Staff of the master + and a  resto stone at late game , put him in top tier picks of intelligent heroes, if u want a decent position 2 hero.  Even just staff alone actually.
Also the hero can farm fast and the accumulation of gold early mid game is easy, considering your getting lots of golds through a teamfight also. I literally see 'people on their knees'' (i hope u know this punch line ^^ )

 

  • Tried to replicate a raw scenario in practise mode, its my first time doing this, dont judge too hard: 


 Hellbringer level 25 no items(1803 HP pool ) vs Maliken level 25 no items ( values are after armor  reduction)

Lets consider that the initial burst damage below will be calculated to the 20% passive lifesteal and later Hell will activate his demon, for the 30%.


Q : 123 damage x 2 times= 246 dmg
W:  237 dmg
Ultimate:  75 dmg
Malpha's damage: 109 per hit ( in this case scenario i put malpha to give 5 autoattacks)= 545  ( maybe in a teamfight he can pull of more auttoattacks, i just put 5)
Hellbringer damage : 99 per hit ( in this case scenario i put hellbringer to give 3 auttoattacks) = 297 
                                             Total of 1400 damage.      1400 X 20%(lifesteal) =  280


Activated E spell :

Lets say in that area are 3 heroes, and they receive his demon. And lets consider they will take a combined of 2000 damage post mitigation. ( for 3 heroes combined maybe its too low 2k)
                   2000 dmg x 30% = 600

Conclusion : 

Total of 880 hp returning to Hellbringer. Consider that this is an one-time,a raw scenario. A teamfight will go longer, spells get off cd and u have them again, there are also items in place, that will boost the damage done, or items that will delay the duraton of a teamfight, also there will be creeps involved on taking damage etc. It doesnt show the maximum healing HB can receive potentially. The scenarios are whole lot. 
But from a raw scenario i got a 880 hp returning to a 1803 hp Hellbringer.

-My only suggestion can be a twich of his passive and active effect:
       1)  20% -> 15% and 30% ->25%     or     2)  Passive effect: any source of damage -> magic damage  and active effect: remains the same(all damage sources) .
Worth mentioning changing to the 2nd suggestion transforms the hero into a higher skill based hero, as above managing to hit your Q and W you will have to land a good E spell off, so u can get the best out of it, as the active effect has a timer.

 
Personally i do support the 2nd suggestion as i do believe that in order to be able to play a strong hero like Hellbringer, you will have to do one or two things more, than just spamming buttons. Thats kinda a reward. And is not about you being a good or a bad player. It just needs a small effort to learn to utilize the hero at his best. 


 ps: Dunno if i did this right, its my first time trying to post this kind of thing,most of the times i just post plane suggestions without numbers, maybe i did it wrong,or didnt evaluate something extra etc, pls feel free to correct me, or point out mistakes 🙂 . Also as i said i like the place Hellbringer is now, even if he stays like this i dont have any problem. 



 

Edited by doctornik
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I appreciate your effort in putting the test number of this suggestion to prove your point. So, I helps you enriching the discussion by putting the changelog of Hellbringer:

Spoiler

 

4.8.1.2

Summon Malphas

  • Malphas Max Health reduced from 1000/1500/2000 to 900/1400/1900.
  • Malphas Attack Damage reduced from 80/130/180 to 80/125/170.
  • Malphas' Destruction passive ability: bonus damage dealt to structures reduced from 50/75/100% to 30/40/50%.

4.8.1

Summon Malphas 

  • Staff of the Master effect additions (new):
  • *A second instance of this ability occurs at the target destination 0.75 seconds after the initial spellcast (will apply all effects on the second instance, including a second Malphas)*.
  • *Malphas Max Health and Attack Damage are reduced by 25% if spawned this way*.
  • *Hellbringer can only have a max of 3 Malphas at any given time*.

Evil Presence

  • Radius increased from 250 to 325.

Summon Malphas

  • Attack Damage for Malphas increased from 50/75/100 to 80/130/180.
  • Base Movement Speed for Malphas increased from 350/375/400 to 375/400/425. 
  • Max Health for Malphas increased from 900/1350/1800 to 1000/1500/2000.
  • Base Attack Time for Malphas reduced from 1.8 seconds to 1.5 seconds.
  • Plague Carrier - No longer instantly kills ElitePet units (will deal the regular amount of damage instead). *This change primarily means that Hellbringer's Malphas will no longer be instantly killed by Plague Carrier.

4.8.0

Evil Presence

  • Cooldown reduced from 15 seconds to 11 seconds.
  • Mana Cost increased from 50 to 65/80/95/110.
  • Targeting scheme changed from Target Unit to Target Position.
  • Movement Speed of the minion increased from 522 to 1600 when the ability is cast.
  • Enemy units affected by the minion explosion now also heal Hellbringer for 15/20/25/30% of Damage they receive for 5/6/7/8 seconds.
  • Negative Magic Armor duration increased from 5 seconds to 5/6/7/8 seconds. *Movement Speed Slow duration remains the same at 5 seconds. *Legacy Life Void has more or less been re-integrated on Hellbringer.

4.7.3

Demon Strike

  • Charges per level changed from 1/1/1/2 to 1/1/2/2.
  • Magic Damage per impact lowered from 80/120/160/160 to 80/120/120/160.

The rest of the changelog: here

 

In my opinion, the reason of the lifesteal being so high is because some of Hellbringer player tends to forget controlling Hellbringer himself and focuses too much on his Malpha - CMIIW.

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