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ElementUser

Staff of the Master - Suggestions Thread

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5 hours ago, cobaye said:

Or:
Make Quicken apply to yourself + 1 additional allied hero in range in Addition to the effect he has now. Sounds OP, but it's kinda like Revenents Staff then.

It actually cut off my full suggestion.  What I meant was;

Blitz:  passively remove cast animation from all abilities and gives slow immunity.  Apply Quicken on self whenever Blitz casts a spell.

 

 


Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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7 hours ago, MacroHard said:

It actually cut off my full suggestion.  What I meant was;

Blitz:  passively remove cast animation from all abilities and gives slow immunity.  Apply Quicken on self whenever Blitz casts a spell.

 
  •  

 

das an iddy biddy stronk...

dont you think?
complete slow immunity + free +200 ms with those low cooldowns on a hero that already breaks one of the core mechanics (aka movementspeed cap) and can escalate super easily 😄

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There are some very good suggestions here and I think we should try to have a SOTM to all heroes for fairness and completeness. I know this might be quite a task taking into account the limited resources though.

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Pearl, Staff of the Master:


[E] Bubble Pop (new addition); Increases range to 1100 and additionally reduces travel time by 20% (I don't know the current value). Upon landing casts [E] Asphyxiation equal to it's current level on self and all targets effected by Bubble Pop.


basically i want to turn into more of a productive tool

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Posted (edited)

Intelligence Heroes

Spoiler

Qi: boosting Ancestral Assault

Disarms enemies for 1/1.5/2 seconds per explosion and applies Enlightment effect to the explosion.

Spoiler

this boost gives Qi a mass disable ability and more severe damage dealt to enemies building their auto-attack damage. Not a 100% mandatory choice because Qi still needs to aim the ability correctly in order to give the effects.

Skrap: boosting Unleashes Vorax

Grants a toggle ability by 10 seconds reactivating cooldown replacing Unleash Vorax when the ultimate is active, commanding Vorax to stand still for 3/4.5/6 seconds. In stand still state, Rock Smash cooldown is set to 1.5 second(s) while its range is increased to 700/800/900. The ability is disable if Vorax is already focused on tower.

Spoiler

Inspired by @Claudineeeidea, thank you and pardon me for not asking your permission first. This boost changes the focus of Vorax from pushing tool to team-fight tool. Not a 100% mandatory choice because this boost has limited use.

Oogie: boosting Primal Surge

Grants a toggle ability replacing Primal Surge when the ultimate is active, increasing damage taken to self by 0% at full mana up to 30% at 10/25/40% mana left linearly. Also, Primal Surge removes the limit of Tar Quake stack, grants 10/20/30/40 attack speed when activating Conflagration, and sets Kindled Fury cooldown to 4 seconds.

Spoiler

Again, thank you @Claudineeefor the inspiration. This boost improves the ultimate's requirement. Not a 100% mandatory choice because this boost still requires what the pre-boosted ultimate needs to be effective.

Pearl: boosting Preservation

The bubble blocks enemy movement 2 seconds after the cast (same block as Empath's Wall) and then deals 60 magic damage per second to enemies in 150 units to the bubble and inside it.

Spoiler

Inspired by @Claudineeeidea again though someone long ago also suggested this as far as I remember. This boost improves the bubble usability. Not a 100% mandatory choice because it still can be countered by magic immunity.

Warchief: boosting Warcry

Grants 10% magic lifesteal to allies and additional 0/5/10% magic lifesteal to self. Doesn't stack with other magic lifesteal.

Spoiler

This boost grants mass magic lifesteal. Not a 100% mandatory choice to the team consisting of auto-attacker or physical-damage dealer.

Engineer: boosting Energy Field

Dispels buff and applies Energy Field for 2 seconds to enemies in radius at the start of cast. Also, the outer side of radius affects magic immune unit. 

Spoiler

As a tweaked version of Bubbles ultimate, this boost grants something roughly the same. Not a 100% mandatory choice by the same reason like Bubbles' ultimate boost.

Gravekeeper: boosting Zombie Apocalypse

Zombies last indefinite and follow Gravekeeper if there's no valid target on their aggro range. The next cast of this ability turns the remaining zombies into unstable zombies.

Spoiler

This boost forces opponents to kill the zombies rather than simply avoid them. Not a 100% mandatory choice because it only grants burst damage combined with Restoration Stone.

Circe: boosting Twisted Visage

Press D button to copy the recent Twisted Visage's target by same manacost, cooldown, and channeling time as Twisted Visage. Share the cooldown with Twisted Visage. Also, the copy gets the staff boost even if the copied target doesn't have it yet.

Spoiler

This boost grants Circe a flexibility in using the benefit of ultimate without the need of the opponent hero to be present. Not a 100% mandatory choice because she still needs using the ultimate first before making use of the boost.

Fayde: boosting Reflection

Sets a third of Reflection damage as passive on attack. Illusion of her gets a third of this passive's effectiveness.

 

Spoiler

This boost grants Fayde potential as damage-dealer. Not a 100% mandatory choice because this boost has the same problem as Myrmidon's staff boost.

Puppet Master: boosting Voodoo Doll

Whoever attacking the doll grants themselves bonus attack speed by 60/90/120.

Spoiler

This boost quickens the optimal damage the Voodoo Doll can deal. Not a 100% mandatory choice because this boost has potential to be two-edged sword.

 

 

 

Edited by datfizh
fix some mistakes

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Posted (edited)
On 5/25/2020 at 7:50 AM, Garrote said:

There are some very good suggestions here and I think we should try to have a SOTM to all heroes for fairness and completeness. I know this might be quite a task taking into account the limited resources though.

I can agree with the first part of this but not the second.

Building anything to fill a quota is bad. Building for the sake of parity without a good idea is bad.

I don't have to point far to remind people of the EA era here with a new hero every 2 weeks (remember the Gunblade trailer? I do), the era that due to a quota caused a lot of damage to the brand. Obviously this isn't the same magnitude but the concept is the same; things need a place and shouldn't be rushed out or created just because.

Edited by Hubaris
  • Like 1

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

I can agree with the first part of this but not the second.

Building anything to fill a quota is bad. Building for the sake of parity without a good idea is bad.

I don't have to point far to remind people of the EA era here with a new hero every 2 weeks (remember the Gunblade trailer? I do), the era that due to a quota caused a lot of damage to the brand. Obviously this isn't the same magnitude but the concept is the same; things need a place and shouldn't be rushed out or created just because.

Precisely.

 

Some predecessors do not understand this back when heroes were being released left and right, and it's the reason why we have so many badly designed & frustrating heroes. It's unfortunate that in reality, games don't run for free & they do have to prioritize business first, so I understand why it had to be done at some point. Long-term though, it has caused HoN so much more harm than good.

Edited by ElementUser

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Hindsight is 20/20 EU. You're absolutely right about the business end though, but I suppose that is a conversation for a different thread for a different time.


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Long story short, even if it takes 2 years to get a quality SotM for a hero, we will wait the 2 years.

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14 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

I can agree with the first part of this but not the second.

Building anything to fill a quota is bad. Building for the sake of parity without a good idea is bad.

I don't have to point far to remind people of the EA era here with a new hero every 2 weeks (remember the Gunblade trailer? I do), the era that due to a quota caused a lot of damage to the brand. Obviously this isn't the same magnitude but the concept is the same; things need a place and shouldn't be rushed out or created just because.

There should be like an “HONored poster” award or something for comments like this.


Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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Posted (edited)

Not sure if I should make threads or just consolidate into here... A part of me hates the lack of symmetry with my prior posts but here we go:

Qi is one of my new favourite heroes, from his vast flexibility to his insane damage over the course of a game (I can easily blast past 50k hero damage even when losing), he has a lot to offer a team by shredding those who build like glass cannons and don't find balance between attack damage and health. This is an incredibly subtle way to make a hero unique and I love it.

Changes to Ancestral Assault (R) are in GOLD and BOLD.

Quote

Path of Ancestry (R)

Target a linear area to charge up his Qi there. After a 0.6 second delay, the Qi explodes, dealing 1 / 2 / 3 instances of 150 Superior Magic Damage to enemies within the area.

The area lingers for 8 seconds afterwards, dealing 10 / 20 / 30 Superior Magic Damage a second and disarming enemies (lingering for 1 second). Qi and allies gain everything walking and +30% movespeed while on the path.

This allows for Qi to have a unique feature that provides allies with new paths to initiate or flank, a unique area denial which plays into A Thousand Cuts (W), and some more anti-carry power that is seen in Crippling Puncture (Q). For disable it doesn't provide the consistency of Bolas, or the power of something like Sheepstick. For damage there are other options such as Sunder or Shards. It really provides something that no other hero can do, and with its low cooldown and power will open up new paths to fight and even escape on.

5 hours ago, MacroHard said:

There should be like an “HONored poster” award or something for comments like this.

*Blushes* Oh you *giggle*.

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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17 hours ago, Hubaris said:

I can agree with the first part of this but not the second.

Building anything to fill a quota is bad. Building for the sake of parity without a good idea is bad.

I don't have to point far to remind people of the EA era here with a new hero every 2 weeks (remember the Gunblade trailer? I do), the era that due to a quota caused a lot of damage to the brand. Obviously this isn't the same magnitude but the concept is the same; things need a place and shouldn't be rushed out or created just because.

I think I am being influenced by Dota 2 where they clearly added the equivalent SOTM effect to all heroes clearly just because. The majority of the new Dota 2 SOTM are very simplistic and rarely used but if this is something that is not acceptable by @ElementUser this is perfectly fine by me.

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3 hours ago, Garrote said:

I think I am being influenced by Dota 2 where they clearly added the equivalent SOTM effect to all heroes clearly just because. The majority of the new Dota 2 SOTM are very simplistic and rarely used but if this is something that is not acceptable by @ElementUser this is perfectly fine by me.

The people behind those two titles clearly have different philosophies.

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3 hours ago, Garrote said:

I think I am being influenced by Dota 2 where they clearly added the equivalent SOTM effect to all heroes clearly just because. The majority of the new Dota 2 SOTM are very simplistic and rarely used but if this is something that is not acceptable by @ElementUser this is perfectly fine by me.

It's not that it is not acceptable; the philosophy is different. Like you said some are rarely used and that is fine as a placeholder but shouldn't we strive for better than fine?

They should inspire new ideas and new views... at least in my mind. This is my opinion however and I have always very vocal about it, ever since Day 1.


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Garrote said:

I think I am being influenced by Dota 2 where they clearly added the equivalent SOTM effect to all heroes clearly just because. The majority of the new Dota 2 SOTM are very simplistic and rarely used but if this is something that is not acceptable by @ElementUser this is perfectly fine by me.

I could add +20% damage to their ultimate (if it's a damaging ultimate). Or taken to the extreme, I can add 1 point of damage to them & it satisfies your criteria. That doesn't make it correct to do.

 

It's a waste of time & space on patch notes if it were to be done.

Edited by ElementUser

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5 hours ago, ElementUser said:

I could add +20% damage to their ultimate (if it's a damaging ultimate). Or taken to the extreme, I can add 1 point of damage to them & it satisfies your criteria. That doesn't make it correct to do.

 

It's a waste of time & space on patch notes if it were to be done.

Altho one COULD argue that giving everyone a staff would also satisfy boost potential.
As in that someone with a lesser staff but spare gpm could get a staff to boost someone with a better staff and less gpm or even a carry that HAS to prioritize other items due to constellations.
This is by no means a "get everyone a garbage staff argument"!
Just a reminder that in RARE scenarios it CAN have MEANINGFUL impact.
Though I am sure you are aware particularly, I just wanted to point it out again generally.

But still, I'd rather see everyone getting a useful Staff effect in the end than anything else.

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3 hours ago, merryhonmas said:

Altho one COULD argue that giving everyone a staff would also satisfy boost potential.
As in that someone with a lesser staff but spare gpm could get a staff to boost someone with a better staff and less gpm or even a carry that HAS to prioritize other items due to constellations.
This is by no means a "get everyone a garbage staff argument"!
Just a reminder that in RARE scenarios it CAN have MEANINGFUL impact.
Though I am sure you are aware particularly, I just wanted to point it out again generally.

But still, I'd rather see everyone getting a useful Staff effect in the end than anything else.

This is actually an interesting point. Now that Master's Legacy exists, what is your thought regarding heroes having some functional (if boring) Staff effect at a minimum just to support teams who might need one?

Is it a case of draft a different hero or should it be assumed that everyone has access? 


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Blitz (Additional effect):

  • Now passively reduces the cool down of Blitz's abilities by 1 sec for every 200 units moved.

Not only do I believe that the buff will fit Blitz thematically (even CD go faster), but I think is also a good way to take advantage of the higher MS cap that he has. A roamer Blitz could stay perma-quickened if he has the mana to spam it, or could do some quick zig-zag movements as to get a second Quicken while the first one lasts. Would also be a good incentive to allocate more resources to Blitz, since he could become a caster-carry if focused that way.

 

Night Hound (New effect):

Smoke Bomb (Smoke Storm):

  • Smoke Storm lasts indefinitely. Casting the skill again once off cool-down will make the previous Smoke Storm disappear.

A buff to the real Night Hound's Ult. It allows him to create more threatening areas in team fights and also have the upper hand in pushes and high-ground defense if the opponent doesn't come prepared.

 

Moira (Additional effect):

Ephemeral Forge (Transcendental Forge):

  • Spirit Mimic no longer shares Abilities nor Items' cool-downs with Moira

An alternative to Restoration Stone (which is not that much of an option) that could give a big edge to Moira, considering that her build allows for the straining use of Mana. Gives Moira a bit more power with small items now that this ability's cool down was nerfed.

 

Gunblade (New effect):

Grappling Shot (Soul-binding Shot):

  • While grappled, damage (pre-mitigation) done to Gunblade is also done to the targeted enemy, and any HP healed on the targeted enemy also heals Gunblade

The upgrade gives the possibility to go more of an anti-carry build, allowing Gunblade to be less of a core and still be a threat to the enemy by putting his life on the line. Going for a tanky-build would give the most of this buff.

 

The Dark Lady (New effect):

Taint Soul (Condemned Soul):

  • Now also unlinks shared vision with allies from the targeted hero and applies a tapering Vision Radius reduction for the duration.

While TDL doesn't suffer in team fights as much as other carry heroes, the buff looks to give her more options in ganks and skirmishes besides her ult. Not only helps her to keep a hero isolated, but can also be used to help fleeing teammates in a better way than its current effect.

 

Pollywog Priest (Change of effect):

  • Instead of the current upgrade to the Ult, after casting a spell or activating an item, Pollywog Priest will summon a Voodoo Ward in a random position in a 150 radius from his current position.

An upgrade to give more hitting power to a position 4 or 5 Polly; as well as giving better presence in skirmishes or ganks to a core Polly when the ultimate is on cool down. May be too strong if a Polly go all in for a base push, so maybe the item activation component could be removed. It still has a double-edge component, since the additional wards could feed gold to the enemy.

 

Witch Slayer (Additional effect):

  • Silver bullet also makes the targeted hero deal 50% less damage for 4 seconds.

Considering that a lot of spells have upgrades that make them do superior magic damage, WS's Ult upgrade gets overshadowed even against SH users. The additional effect gives a big incentive to use the Ult in key team-fight moments against the carries and not only as a finisher.

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Engineer: This should be done as a QoL: I think the Ultimate should spread over the center (over 0.5-1 seconds) which would make sense as a "generated electric field" should come from a source.

 

Staff of the master effect would "Electric Boogaloo" - Ultimate is now a throwable tool (similar to mines, keg, and turret) of 500 range, Deals slightly more damage (maybe even a % of max health?) and when destroyed the electric field shrinks back into the center, dealing one more instance of damage to any enemies who have not walked out. At the end of the day Engi is classified as a support and not an initiator or ganker, so this would allow that same application without forcing engi to throw away his life or always spend on PKs for positioning.

 

As an added comment to ElementUser about his criteria for "does it have new visuals"- We already have a spreading electrical circle in the form of Corrupted deciiple which im sure could be tweaked (and slowed) to allow engi to adapt parts of its code. No need to rewrite anything. 

 

Thoughts?  

Edited by ozilla

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2 hours ago, ozilla said:

Engineer: This should be done as a QoL: I think the Ultimate should spread over the center (over 0.5-1 seconds) which would make sense as a "generated electric field" should come from a source.

 

Staff of the master effect would "Electric Boogaloo" - Ultimate is now a throwable tool (similar to mines, keg, and turret) of 500 range, Deals slightly more damage (maybe even a % of max health?) and when destroyed the electric field shrinks back into the center, dealing one more instance of damage to any enemies who have not walked out. At the end of the day Engi is classified as a support and not an initiator or ganker, so this would allow that same application without forcing engi to throw away his life or always spend on PKs for positioning.

 

As an added comment to ElementUser about his criteria for "does it have new visuals"- We already have a spreading electrical circle in the form of Corrupted deciiple which im sure could be tweaked (and slowed) to allow engi to adapt parts of its code. No need to rewrite anything. 

 

Thoughts?  

I like your suggestion. If you wish for further discussion, you should create a thread at Suggestion sub-forum so this thread could be less crowded by various discussion.

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I think when EU means new visuals it means new resources, such as a new model if you made the Ultimate Transform the hero (such as with Salomon). Making a field move is just scripting, so I wouldn't think it falls under that.

Also I like the suggestion, it falls near but not on top of Frostfield as it has different uses.

  • Like 1

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Thanks for that! I thought this was the spot to discuss this but I can create a separate post in the Sub Forum if you guys think it'll garner more attention?

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3 hours ago, ozilla said:

Thanks for that! I thought this was the spot to discuss this but I can create a separate post in the Sub Forum if you guys think it'll garner more attention?

I like to post a thread in the Suggestions sub-forum then link it here, that way anyone reading it can see any feedback and updates while you get it in the main thread.

I think either works though!


I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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I'm having fun with Goldenveil but I think his Staff effect is incredibly dull (AoE damage on Greedgutter).

I'm proposing the following two changes:

Goldenveil can now passively 'smell' where gold was made. For example whenever an enemy hero would make money, either from a kill, assist, creep kill, a little gadget can spawn at the location that Goldenveil can see which counts down the last minute since the gold was made, allowing Goldenveil to effectively 'track' people throughout the Forests while farming. To prevent clutter, only X gadgets can spawn within Y units of a location (no need to see 7 gadgets to represent a dead creep wave). Gadgets would be invisible to all but Goldenveil, and by checking the time remaining on them he can see how long ago someone was near there making money (easy visual, similar to watching a ward duration tick down). Alternatively (and probably more simply), whenever someone makes money within X radius of Goldenveil, he gets a little golden ping on the map similar to Geomancer's Geo Stalk.

In addition, Greedgutter no longer has the AoE functionality but deals bonus magic damage based on how much Gold the target is holding; dealing an additional 20% of their current Gold in Magic damage.

A couple of reasons for this:

  1. I wouldn't propose it if I didn't think there was flavour to it.
  2. It allows him to track in a unique way that complements his already existing playstyle.
  3. It gives incentive for people playing as Goldenveil to attack higher priority targets instead of weaker people.
  4. It can give valuable information on a target such as their farming patterns and how much money they're holding.

What do you think?

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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19 minutes ago, Hubaris said:

I'm having fun with Goldenveil but I think his Staff effect is incredibly dull (AoE damage on Greedgutter).

I'm proposing the following two changes:

Goldenveil can now passively 'smell' where gold was made. For example whenever an enemy hero would make money, either from a kill, assist, creep kill, a little gadget can spawn at the location that Goldenveil can see which counts down the last minute since the gold was made, allowing Goldenveil to effectively 'track' people throughout the Forests while farming. To prevent clutter, only X gadgets can spawn within Y units of a location (no need to see 7 gadgets to represent a dead creep wave). Gadgets would be invisible to all but Goldenveil, and by checking the time remaining on them he can see how long ago someone was near there making money (easy visual, similar to watching a ward duration tick down). Alternatively (and probably more simply), whenever someone makes money within X radius of Goldenveil, he gets a little golden ping on the map similar to Geomancer's Geo Stalk.

In addition, Greedgutter no longer has the AoE functionality but deals bonus magic damage based on how much Gold the target is holding; dealing an additional 20% of their current Gold in Magic damage.

A couple of reasons for this:

  1. I wouldn't propose it if I didn't think there was flavour to it.
  2. It allows him to track in a unique way that complements his already existing playstyle.
  3. It gives incentive for people playing as Goldenveil to attack higher priority targets instead of weaker people.
  4. It can give valuable information on a target such as their farming patterns and how much money they're holding.

What do you think?

Rather than a countdown, do a countup.  Much easier and intuitive.  Simply read the time, and that's how old it is.


Toxicity breeds toxicity.  Break the cycle.

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