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In your opinion, what was the reason behind HoN's demise?


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IMO, not starting out with a F2P model doomed it from the beginning, with HoN 4.0 being the final nail in the coffin. 

Not to mention wza. That man made the most horrible decisions I've ever seen a game developer make in my life, it's almost like he was doing it on purpose lol.

Anyway, I'm curious to hear the community's thoughts on this.  

 

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When HON and LOL were in beta, HON was more popular. Once they got released, HON had did on a 30$ tag and LOL on a "F2P" model. Most of the players switched to LOL then.

Should HON have been released with the current F2P model, noone would remember LOL by now.

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There were never any attempt for marketing.
It's like my local gym. They complain it ain't going around to make it worth keeping.
It was never advertised despite being located in a large ever-growing residential area & community.
Still, no attempts for marketing or even raising the price-tag.
Much like HoN.

Making it F2P made people trash & troll their accs & community.
That, at the time made it a horrible experience especially for beginners.
Before that, people held their account dearly.

Clearly not the only reason but for me, what I saw it's why it lost its touch.
Neither did it have any chance at expanding.
Abeit F2P, people left at the door.

HoN had its niche at the time.
Fast paced RTS/moba - a strong upgrade of the beloved Dota 1.
Dota 2 wasn't yet out.
LoL was F2P and got released about the same time as HoN.
That in itself shouldn't have been a factor to make it F2P.
HoN looked too much at what LoL did and that imo hurt the game.

Edited by Soultrigger
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11 hours ago, Su0T said:

When HON and LOL were in beta, HON was more popular. Once they got released, HON had did on a 30$ tag and LOL on a "F2P" model. Most of the players switched to LOL then.

Should HON have been released with the current F2P model, noone would remember LOL by now.

Problem at that time was that F2P model didnt exist, so HoN went the "safe route" as any other game known until that time, while LoL "invented" the new business model which no one before tried

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11 hours ago, Soultrigger said:

There were never any attempt for marketing.

That's not entirely correct. There were HoN-ads in the nvidia-driver installation 😅. And I think in Thailand or at least somewhere in Asia there were actual advertisements.

11 hours ago, Soultrigger said:

LoL was F2P and got released about the same time as HoN.
That in itself shouldn't have been a factor to make it F2P.
HoN looked too much at what LoL did and that imo hurt the game.

Tbh one of the reasons why I thought HoN was such a great game was because you had to buy the game and it was not open for everyone (like DotA basically was, because you couldn't ban wc3 accounts for DotA-games - and everyone could easily get new accounts anyways).
However it might have made HoN worse that they went F2P, but there would be no way that a "pay once" game would keep so many servers running for such a long time.
We could have gotten an subscription model I guess, but Idk if I would have kept playing if we had (I could afford it now, but I couldn't 10 years ago) and I assume a lot of other people wouldn't have either.

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2 things that together means that getting new players into the game gets harder and harder. The end result is a constantly dwindling playerbase.

1. The community. An extremely toxic community that makes it a very bad experience to start playing the game. Trolls, griefers, smurfs that all contribute to many new players giving up before they even started.
 

2. The extremely steep learning curve. MOBAs are notorious for having a steep learning curve. There is so much you need to know in order to play it on an average level.

When you combine 1 and 2 you have a situation where the game will never grow because more players will leave than join because of an overall bad experience. You can always blame the developers, some random person in the organization, a specific patch, lack of advertising etc.

But my point is, if the community was great and could attract new people by being welcoming and helpful all of the above would not matter because everything would be about the game and not some outside factor that in the end really doesn’t matter that much.

But I guess this thread is a pretty good example. Everybody is shooting at the company and some game mechanics, a 12 year old businessmodel that no longer exist or advertisement. Instead of looking at themselves saying: what have I done to help keeping this game alive.

Afterall the game lived for 12 years and we as players have just as much responsibility for what have happened over all these years.

Merry X-Mas all😊

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44 minutes ago, Stoffer_ said:

When you combine 1 and 2 you have a situation where the game will never grow because more players will leave than join because of an overall bad experience. You can always blame the developers, some random person in the organization, a specific patch, lack of advertising etc.

Actually HoN was better in both of those points compared to DotA (1).
I played a loooot of DotA games (and had bots running which hosted games on their own) and there was basically zero communication aside of a couple of flames, the first people usually left during the picking phase, after 5 minutes ingame there were rarely more than 8 people and after around 15 minutes the games were usually over because only 3 players were left.
In comparison to HoN there was also way less help. You had to use random keys on the keyboard for skills, there was less detailed description of skills, you had no learnatorium, you had no tutorial (HoN at least used to have one), you had no bots (I guess there eventually was a bot-map iirc), I played hundreds of games beforce I started to know what items to get (and I played easy mode at that time).

All that and no advertising and DotA still created the moba-playerbase which split between Lol, HoN and eventually DotA2.

The problem of mobas is the same as for mmorpgs: Too many options while requiring a big playerbase to be fun.
In addition to that you can't simply release version 2 or add a lot of content because it will be a totally game if you leave out the old heroes. HoN tried with 4.0 and what was eventually called PBT, but they failed horribly because essentially it was "version 2" and no one liked it.

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18 minutes ago, Manu311 said:

Actually HoN was better in both of those points compared to DotA (1).
I played a loooot of DotA games (and had bots running which hosted games on their own) and there was basically zero communication aside of a couple of flames, the first people usually left during the picking phase, after 5 minutes ingame there were rarely more than 8 people and after around 15 minutes the games were usually over because only 3 players were left.
In comparison to HoN there was also way less help. You had to use random keys on the keyboard for skills, there was less detailed description of skills, you had no learnatorium, you had no tutorial (HoN at least used to have one), you had no bots (I guess there eventually was a bot-map iirc), I played hundreds of games beforce I started to know what items to get (and I played easy mode at that time).

All that and no advertising and DotA still created the moba-playerbase which split between Lol, HoN and eventually DotA2.

The problem of mobas is the same as for mmorpgs: Too many options while requiring a big playerbase to be fun.
In addition to that you can't simply release version 2 or add a lot of content because it will be a totally game if you leave out the old heroes. HoN tried with 4.0 and what was eventually called PBT, but they failed horribly because essentially it was "version 2" and no one liked it.

in dota 1 u could swap teams though 

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3 minutes ago, Deadlycr1t said:

in dota 1 u could swap teams though 

What do you mean? Choose teams in the lobby? I think the lobby is pretty identical to the one in DotA, you just had no match making in DotA which of course chooses your team for you.

If you played -sp (shuffle players), you couldn't even choose to play with your friends in the same team 😉

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4 minutes ago, Manu311 said:

What do you mean? Choose teams in the lobby? I think the lobby is pretty identical to the one in DotA, you just had no match making in DotA which of course chooses your team for you.

If you played -sp (shuffle players), you couldn't even choose to play with your friends in the same team 😉

i mean if someone left there was a swap command that u can go to the other team like if the game was 3vs5 u could play 4vs4 i often did that as a challenge 

Edited by Deadlycr1t
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1 hour ago, Stoffer_ said:

2 things that together means that getting new players into the game gets harder and harder. The end result is a constantly dwindling playerbase.

1. The community. An extremely toxic community that makes it a very bad experience to start playing the game. Trolls, griefers, smurfs that all contribute to many new players giving up before they even started.
 

as a new player i think too that the toxicity was probably one the reasons the game  died also it could be that the game has no identity even today everyone knows hon as a dota clone

 

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1 minute ago, Deadlycr1t said:

i mean if someone left there was a swap command that u can go to the other team like if the game was 3vs5 u could play 4vs4 if often did that as a challenge

I actually didn't know about "-so" 😄. And I never saw a single game using it 😉

But good to learn about it after so many years 😄.

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1 hour ago, Manu311 said:

Actually HoN was better in both of those points compared to DotA (1).
I played a loooot of DotA games (and had bots running which hosted games on their own) and there was basically zero communication aside of a couple of flames, the first people usually left during the picking phase, after 5 minutes ingame there were rarely more than 8 people and after around 15 minutes the games were usually over because only 3 players were left.
In comparison to HoN there was also way less help. You had to use random keys on the keyboard for skills, there was less detailed description of skills, you had no learnatorium, you had no tutorial (HoN at least used to have one), you had no bots (I guess there eventually was a bot-map iirc), I played hundreds of games beforce I started to know what items to get (and I played easy mode at that time).

All that and no advertising and DotA still created the moba-playerbase which split between Lol, HoN and eventually DotA2.

The problem of mobas is the same as for mmorpgs: Too many options while requiring a big playerbase to be fun.
In addition to that you can't simply release version 2 or add a lot of content because it will be a totally game if you leave out the old heroes. HoN tried with 4.0 and what was eventually called PBT, but they failed horribly because essentially it was "version 2" and no one liked it.

I agree, I also played a lot of Dota 1 and the standard experience through custom maps in WC3 was horrible because of the reasons you pointed out. I don't remember people flaming that much, but you had leavers every game.

Thats why I played on something called Dota Pickup where games was set up in an IRC channel and there was a very effective system if people didnt know how to behave themselves or chose to left. But that was 12 years ago and online gaming has changed a lot since then. 

I still play with the same 4 friends I played Dota 1 with 12 years ago. We have tried getting other of our friends into HoN and they have all given up because of the community. People who are used to playing various online games like CS, WoW etc. All of them have given up on the game simply because they don't really feel like sitting through 30 minutes of various insults from self-proclaimed HoN-experts and know-it-all's.

For the same reason I never go online and play unless at least one of my friends can play. Its simply not worth my time and that ultimately means I play HoN less and less and start playing other games.

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10 hours ago, SJW_LGBT said:

9. The closed code of the game

While I'm a very open-source person (and would like if HoN would be officially open sourced after the servers shut down), I disagree with this point:

If HoN was open-source, we would have probably 20 forks already, which would divide the playerbase and we would have endless queue-times.
Mod-ability is not an argument here either, because HoN for the most part is open-source and allows (client) mods for all (but tournament) games.

Of course HoN could never die if it was open-source, because you could always just host your own 5v5 games whenever you like, but I think match making would have died way earlier.

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Trying to compete with dota2 and LoL.

Hon was big. Was.

Now hon is fun. Hon has smackdown, fun announcers and unit reactions, midwars, good mini games like Devo wars and many other.

Imo hon failed when it kept trying to compete with huge games instead of focusing on its niche.

Having thousands of regular players after more than 10 years says something about a game especially in a genre like MOBA. 

Hon is as close to cult as you can get and letting it die is just sad. It will never become the biggest competitive MOBA game again but that shouldn't be the goal. The goal should be to entertain, push boundaries with new heros and modes, and keep the legacy alive.

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