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Is this for real? HoN ends at 20 june


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1 hour ago, Ondis said:

Probably will just DC next time. But one thing is quite worrysome. Apparently your hero stays in game after disconnecting. 
Are they able to feed me forever then? Granted I managed to do that myself but Im just curious, do the stats you incur after leaving a game count towards those on your account post game or not? 

I think they're recorded if you leave late enough for the stats to count, but it's not worth it. You will always incur the harshest penalties to behavior score from disconnecting, and should never do it unless the game is safe to quit. You can drop quite a ways down from 10k BS, and then it's low priority where not only do you have to play with seasoned trolls, you also have to win those games to get out. The matchmaking system also takes your BS into account, so the lower it is, the higher the odds of getting into a match with griefers.

35 minutes ago, hegelsohn said:

It felt slowish at first but overall it's still quite fast and I got used to it after some time

The differences in speed are negligible honestly. I remember someone saying that it's the camera that forces the perception of slowness, which might be slightly zoomed out in DotA (which is a good thing, I was never totally comfortable with HoN's camera, realizing information is being kept from me). And it's not just that as far as the improvements go. Trees for example have mostly been atrociously hard to read in HoN and overlap one another. Not to mention their glitchiness that was never quite fully patched out along with cliff clipping. Boy has HoN been the definition of jank with its juking.

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Summary right now  

Well damn... this just completely ruined my day. Honestly, I don't feel like playing HoN anymore as of right now... cause I know that no matter what I do, or whatever I might buy... it will be gone fo

Been playing this game since back 2009.  Meet the love of my life and my current wife on a custom match in 2009 when we were playing against each other and she rekt me mid then i asked for 1x1 and

Its not negligeble at all, there is a serious artificial delay placed on actions. Animations are also slower. Turn rates are slow. Its not the zoom thing, thats been disproven many times over.


I  agree with Hegelshon about the variety, I love that, I love the early action, I love that bounties are there to fight over early, I love neutral items. 

There's far less toxicity but also far less positivity. Im not really getting a "yay" factor. I dont feel too good about winning. Nobody really talks in voice chat, at least in unranked.  I think part of this is the animations. They just dont feel that satisfying graphically speaking. Theres really no big "wow" factor. 

Overall the game in all manner of ways, from the slow gameplay, to the shop that has no function to buy items up to the value that youre missing, the lack of information available on what items your team mates are carrying, the lack of GPM counter, etc...everything feels more clunky. 

Its a game with far more variety and even a bit more complexity, which I enjoy. But its overall an inferior game engine/interface. 

I actually like HoTS more in terms of how crisp the graphics are and how fluid the actions feel. Its just more dead than HoN in terms of active playerbase and its obviously far more restrictive in what you can do or should do to win. 

Still, having fun learning all the heroes. 

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14 hours ago, Ondis said:

Its not negligeble at all, there is a serious artificial delay placed on actions. Animations are also slower. Turn rates are slow. Its not the zoom thing, thats been disproven many times over.

Even so, not an inherently bad thing. What matters is how many things your teammates can pick up on during teamfights. In HoN it's common even in high brackets for good players to cooperate poorly during teamfights because the game isn't readable enough, especially effects-wise.

 

14 hours ago, Ondis said:

There's far less toxicity but also far less positivity. Im not really getting a "yay" factor. I dont feel too good about winning. Nobody really talks in voice chat, at least in unranked.  I think part of this is the animations. They just dont feel that satisfying graphically speaking. Theres really no big "wow" factor. 

Sounds like a you problem if you can't find excitement in a match. Then again, get into ranked first before commenting on the lack of communication in unranked. There's little voice chat in HoN 1500 games as well. Useless comms also put you at risk of getting spite-reported, so people type less.

 

14 hours ago, Ondis said:

Overall the game in all manner of ways, from the slow gameplay, to the shop that has no function to buy items up to the value that youre missing, the lack of information available on what items your team mates are carrying, the lack of GPM counter, etc...everything feels more clunky. 

I'm just going to comment on the shop issue. I think the shop UI in DotA is extremely lacking. The icons are too small. The grids for hotkey control are barebones when it comes to customization. Compared to how well you could control the shop with hotkeys in HoN, DotA is a joke in this regard. But at the same time, you can type an item's name, and it will quickly display the whole tree (which is also quite small unfortunately). In HoN you also have to click on the search bar to be able to type, so DotA has its own shop upsides in this regard.

 

14 hours ago, Ondis said:

Its a game with far more variety and even a bit more complexity, which I enjoy. But its overall an inferior game engine/interface.

You will never make a coherent argument as to the engine quality when HoN literally can't fix juking bugs ever. Unintended clips into trees or cliffs are not a problem in DotA. In HoN, it's an ever present issue that E.User had to patch by hand.

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25 minutes ago, twoscoopsREE said:

Even so, not an inherently bad thing. What matters is how many things your teammates can pick up on during teamfights. In HoN it's common even in high brackets for good players to cooperate poorly during teamfights because the game isn't readable enough, especially effects-wise.

 

Sounds like a you problem if you can't find excitement in a match. Then again, get into ranked first before commenting on the lack of communication in unranked. There's little voice chat in HoN 1500 games as well. Useless comms also put you at risk of getting spite-reported, so people type less.

 

I'm just going to comment on the shop issue. I think the shop UI in DotA is extremely lacking. The icons are too small. The grids for hotkey control are barebones when it comes to customization. Compared to how well you could control the shop with hotkeys in HoN, DotA is a joke in this regard. But at the same time, you can type an item's name, and it will quickly display the whole tree (which is also quite small unfortunately). In HoN you also have to click on the search bar to be able to type, so DotA has its own shop upsides in this regard.

 

You will never make a coherent argument as to the engine quality when HoN literally can't fix juking bugs ever. Unintended clips into trees or cliffs are not a problem in DotA. In HoN, it's an ever present issue that E.User had to patch by hand.

I Like the aspect of getting stuck in trees though. 

And in regards to what report/commend system does, yeah thats an effect of it probably. I see a lot more communication in 1500s (im 1600) in HoN than In DoTA.

It reminds me a bit of but not being as bad as the reporting system in World of Warships that utilizes a mix of automated word searching and report weight to mute players.  It takes a bit too long to explain exactly how it works but the result anyway is that me and in my past clan several of those members were essentially permanently muted.

It doesnt matter who youve said things to, if they were in jest or if that person reported you, it doesnt even seem to matter if the report happened in that game or the next. 

Its a bad system but the effect is that people really avoid to communicate , lol.  
I guess similar to how the kick vote was abused in HoN.  But I dont think this is all of it in DoTA. Somehow everything seems less pronounced. 
Like I mentioned animations, effects. 

But perhaps some aspect of gameplay too.... you lose less gold I think when you die?  Or apparently according to the in game guide its based on how much you're currently floating, so the more you spend the less you lose (??) so deaths are less impactful.  I dont know.

Anyway theres nothing one can do about that.  It is what it is. 
 

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49 minutes ago, Ondis said:

I Like the aspect of getting stuck in trees though. 

It doesn't matter if you personally like it or not. E.User always deemed this as a flaw and has been waging a silent war against glitched tree/cliff-juking by constantly changing their placement where abuse occurred, but obviously has never been able to put in the man-hours to patch everything out. It appears to be a flaw in the engine and is a frustration because it adds a dimension of play 95% of the community is unable to grasp and exploit. Not to mention that it's perceived as cheating.

And that's just the surface side of HoN's persistent jankiness when there are other technical issues that affect performance on modern systems. For those reasons claiming that DotA's engine is inferior to HoN is simply laughable.

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54 minutes ago, twoscoopsREE said:

It doesn't matter if you personally like it or not. E.User always deemed this as a flaw and has been waging a silent war against glitched tree/cliff-juking by constantly changing their placement where abuse occurred, but obviously has never been able to put in the man-hours to patch everything out. It appears to be a flaw in the engine and is a frustration because it adds a dimension of play 95% of the community is unable to grasp and exploit. Not to mention that it's perceived as cheating.

And that's just the surface side of HoN's persistent jankiness when there are other technical issues that affect performance on modern systems. For those reasons claiming that DotA's engine is inferior to HoN is simply laughable.

I know, he has made thousands of holes everywhere. EU is not the creator of HoN. I dont particularly care what he thinks and I disagree with him and especially his predecessor vehemently in most things.  Its my opinion that he dragged down what was a solid game. But he should be highly praised for maintaining it on a limited budget/staff and keeping everyone relatively happy for as long as he did. 

Basically I think that most of the small changes and adjustemenets, including quality of life upgrades like Behemoth being able to remove his stun are positive. But most design decisions and the vision of the game has generally for me been going in the wrong direction for the past couple of years. 

We could argue about this but theres no point really. What Im just saying is that I prefer the engine as it is, with its quirkiness and in other aspects responsiveness while some others clearly dont. 

Edited by Ondis
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22 minutes ago, Ondis said:

I know, he has made thousands of holes everywhere. EU is not the creator of HoN. I dont particularly care what he thinks and I disagree with him and especially his predecessor vehemently in most things.  Its my opinion that he dragged down what was a solid game. But he should be highly praised for maintaining it on a limited budget/staff and keeping everyone relatively happy for as long as he did. 

Basically I think that most of the small changes and adjustemenets, including quality of life upgrades like Behemoth being able to remove his stun are positive. But most design decisions and the vision of the game has generally for me been going in the wrong direction for the past couple of years. 

We could argue about this but theres no point really. What Im just saying is that I prefer the engine as it is, with its quirkiness and in other aspects responsiveness while some others clearly dont. 

You can't claim that a direction is "wrong" or "right", objectively. It's what you think is "wrong" or "right", and there is a bias on your side. That is all.

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19 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

 

You can't claim that a direction is "wrong" or "right", objectively. It's what you think is "wrong" or "right", and there is a bias on your side. That is all.

You could probably tie some metrics to it and say its objectively wrong or right but in this case I mean its wrong for me 🙂

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1 hour ago, Ondis said:

We could argue about this but theres no point really. What Im just saying is that I prefer the engine as it is, with its quirkiness and in other aspects responsiveness while some others clearly dont. 

Well, to illustrate this better for you, the "anti-stuck" feature has given Armadon an immense advantage over the years because simply walking toward a cliff and having some units behind you like neutral creeps or even other hero units can open up nearly any obstructed path for his escape. Preference or not, this is a balance issue that's intrinsically tied to the engine. And that's disregarding all the other juking exploits that relate to direct pathing 95% of the community hasn't the slightest clue about.

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1 hour ago, twoscoopsREE said:

Well, to illustrate this better for you, the "anti-stuck" feature has given Armadon an immense advantage over the years because simply walking toward a cliff and having some units behind you like neutral creeps or even other hero units can open up nearly any obstructed path for his escape. Preference or not, this is a balance issue that's intrinsically tied to the engine. And that's disregarding all the other juking exploits that relate to direct pathing 95% of the community hasn't the slightest clue about.

I've been shown some of these exploits in the past. It was kinda cool seeing them. But as you say since then, a couple of years ago, Ive not seen anyone really use them. And Ive forgotten how to trigger most of them.  Its not really relevant for me. Maybe it is for you or the "pro scene" though there people would probably be sanctioned if they used them in a tournament. 

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1 hour ago, Ondis said:

I've been shown some of these exploits in the past. It was kinda cool seeing them. But as you say since then, a couple of years ago, Ive not seen anyone really use them. And Ive forgotten how to trigger most of them.  Its not really relevant for me. Maybe it is for you or the "pro scene" though there people would probably be sanctioned if they used them in a tournament. 

They were literally showcased on HoN's reddit sub in late december last year. Also, abused by popular streamers. Also last year.

Moot point as you openly admit a subjective preference for the inferior engine of the two, but it just doesn't bother you. Good for you. Bad for the community. Though a sign that sometimes it's better to move on, which it is in this case.

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On 4/14/2022 at 9:15 PM, twoscoopsREE said:

And that's just the surface side of HoN's persistent jankiness when there are other technical issues that affect performance on modern systems. For those reasons claiming that DotA's engine is inferior to HoN is simply laughable.

Dota's engine might be superior on paper but it just feels more clunky to play for me. Also Dota has performance issues too. Even streamers with 10000$ computer play on low graphic settings to minimize lag.

Maybe to explain it in a metaphor: You could argue that the newest and technically most advanced car is by definition the best car. But sometimes you have an older car that just feels better to drive.

Anyways, I played a lot of Dota this year and it's a good game. It's just not HoN.

 

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3 hours ago, Froschbein said:

Dota's engine might be superior on paper but it just feels more clunky to play for me. Also Dota has performance issues too. Even streamers with 10000$ computer play on low graphic settings to minimize lag.

Maybe to explain it in a metaphor: You could argue that the newest and technically most advanced car is by definition the best car. But sometimes you have an older car that just feels better to drive.

Anyways, I played a lot of Dota this year and it's a good game. It's just not HoN.

"Superior" is highly dependent on which sides of the engine one does focus on.
Superior could mean "equal to everyone, even with higher ping, because everyone gets the same amount of lag" or "better connection = less lag and overall very little lag" to just name the obvious one here 😉.
There are a people that prefer (actually) ancient hardware to type texts (or play games) because current operating systems introduce a very small amount of lag which isn't that bad, but noticeable (at least subconsciously). For them the ancient hardware is "superior" because it introduces less lag and that's more important than fancy graphics or features they don't need.
Personally I find my ancient phone superior to smartphones because it takes 2 weeks before I have to recharge it and I can get replacement batteries for 2€ and replace them myself easily 😉. (Also I only really use phones in case of emergencies and as alarm clock, which it can do just fine - it can even play decent games (like chess) if I'm really bored).

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2 hours ago, T23 said:

What time will the servers go down? Midnight June 19? What time zone?

I assume it's not timed (by GG/FB) but the hosting provider will eventually shut them down on that day.
(Also usually when I do assumptions like this, I'm wrong and a staff member joins in to correct me 😭)

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21 hours ago, Manu311 said:

I assume it's not timed (by GG/FB) but the hosting provider will eventually shut them down on that day.
(Also usually when I do assumptions like this, I'm wrong and a staff member joins in to correct me 😭)

Aw it would be nice to know - So we can queue up for the last game ever with friends or just start the game wishing everyone the best and to give it our best before it goes away.

I've also been thinking about which hero I'd use in my last game ever of hon. Knowing when it ends would give some closure right at the end, knowing this is the last game of HoN i'll ever play and go out with appreciation and goodbye.

Hopefully we get some update on this - Thanks for your response!

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I use to be a hon vet, i need my legacy account unbanned so i can play a bit before this game shuts down for good. i was a repeat offender and got permently banned when my laptop ovearheated and became unresponsive so i leftthe match and ended up getting perma banned on my legacy

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12 hours ago, infamous23 said:

I use to be a hon vet, i need my legacy account unbanned so i can play a bit before this game shuts down for good. i was a repeat offender and got permently banned when my laptop ovearheated and became unresponsive so i leftthe match and ended up getting perma banned on my legacy

Leaving matches does never result in a ban like that. You might try to get un-banned via appealing via the rap-portal, not the forums.

Edited by Manu311
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  • 2 weeks later...
Posted (edited)

When ever I join the game and see account's date of creation - most of people have 7+ years old account. 
It is really sad to see this game die...

 

Also, one big difference happened since this its officialy announcment of termination the game - games are much more friendly, no more trolls, kids crying and stuff like that...

 

I really enjoy playing this game atm and it makes me sad knowing it will only last for a month and a half..

Edited by _kamiX_
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2 hours ago, _kamiX_ said:

Also, one big difference happened since this its officialy announcment of termination the game - games are much more friendly, no more trolls, kids crying and stuff like that...

I wouldn't go as far as "no" more trolls. but the numbers have decreased.

However I also noticed two other differences:

1. More leavers (not as much as I remember from DotA (1) but more than ever in HoN)
2. Way longer queue times (Foc with ranks between silver 1 and diamond 2)

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