The Dark Lady simple suggestion

[Jabawoogie 1]

Not many heroes face this problem but this one of dark ladys biggest weaknesses, and that is Trees.

She is one of the few heroes that if u dodge her via vision block for even 1 second it can be a huge disaster kind of like how the old swiftblade R used to work.

My suggestion, 

Dark Blades.

After attacking a target 3 times, applies a 1 second vision debuff to the target if she continuously attacks said target. [Does not reveal invise]

Why 3 attacks?
If its less then this would be a unnecessary buff to tdl as in late game she kills targets with very few autos, but in early game where it takes 6ish autos to take a target down and if said target walks into trees and u lose vision even after you got a nice positioning jump off onto that target; they'd survive. And perhaps even enough to have a return kill. This buff is aimed toward making her a little more viable early game.

[ElementUser 839]

What exactly makes her (supposedly) especially vulnerable to this compared to every other carry hero in the game? 

[Jabawoogie 1]

You got a point, but I'd just like her to have a slight bit more viability to be played as a middle hero. The main issue is when chasing a typical hero they just run to the trees, even if you've out played them hard they end up turning really simply. Actually in this past week about 5 times this has happened, where they get away due to tree vision and majority of the time get a return kill. Ofc theres ways around this, such as blocking movement and dust etc. It would just be nice if you have the proper jump, the proper blockling, and get 4ish autos off before they reach tower, to have a higher chance of securing a mid winning kill. You could say the same for other heroes, but in the case of making tdl more viable as a mid pick up this would help alot.

[DividedBy3 7]

yes, and also give her extra 100 dmg on Q and make her spells cost 0. To make sure to get kills early as TDL mid.

And maybe give her true strike too on E. Because why not.

[Jabawoogie 1]

 

6 minutes ago, DividedBy3 said:

yes, and also give her extra 100 dmg on Q and make her spells cost 0. To make sure to get kills early as TDL mid.

And maybe give her true strike too on E. Because why not.

so you think tdl is a god tier hero right now? Don't get me wrong, when played correctly she is a force to be reckoned with. When played as a short lane farmer she has this brain dead style of rushing cleaver into just farming shruken sny right? Might it be more interesting to have some sort of viability to do something else more unique? Perhaps if a target is applied Dark Blades into Taint Soul they're revealed for 2 seconds. Same sort of buff but less of a buff.

[Jabawoogie 1]

here's a clip, https://clips.twitch.tv/ArbitrarySmellyChipmunkCharlietheUnicorn-ShCLmafWI3QcCRJ_

I could go find more prominent ones where i dont mistake the initial block, but as you can see i clearly was winning; then died due to lose of vision. That is the turning point of that particular match.

[ElementUser 839]

That clip was 100% your fault. You didn't correctly predict your attack timing with respect to Gravekeeper's movement & it was obvious he would move into fog. As a player, you got rightfully punished and should have overcompensated by continuing to move into that tree spot to get the kill.

It's also arguable you didn't fully assess the risks of doing what you did, since there were 3 enemy heroes waiting for you after your kill (whether you were successful or not). So yes, you took the risk by attempting to kill Gravekeeper, and the success didn't particularly matter for the opposing team's countergank against you. 

Edited December 6, 2021 by ElementUser

[Jabawoogie 1]

like i said, i could find more prominent ones where I do not make mistakes. I like the aspect of tdl mid because you have to have near perfect execution, however that gk deserved to die and be punished for his play, but instead im the one punished because a tree blocked my vision on my last auto attack. I'll look for others but it'll take me some time, where I do not make any mistakes what so ever. However it'd just be nice to not need to always play 100% and have a little leeway in an off meta role.

[Sparks1992 7]

Juking is part of the game. You just took a dive for a kill and got outplayed.

[ElementUser 839]

10 minutes ago, Sparks1992 said:

Juking is part of the game. You just took a dive for a kill and got outplayed.

Well said

[Poseidon 17]

Nerf Monarch. Juking 2 op

https://youtu.be/Tj6JzTqgvRk

[Jabawoogie 1]

i think you guys are misunderstanding the point.

[ElementUser 839]

I get the point, but we're not catering to your specific scenarios & habits that you happen to run into. Also it's your problem if you're picking a TDL mid & expecting to get such a huge mid-game power spike as that hero - these are the scenarios you run into with her, and other heroes too. There is no reason in particular she or all other carry heroes should get a change to get around this part of the game.

Others run into this too & it's part of the game.

[Sparks1992 7]

Here's a crazy idea... buy Dust...  reveals heroes in fog for a while...

[twoscoopsREE 15]

There's merit to what Jabawoogie is saying, but not based on his video evidence. I've had situations where I couldn't land a single autoattack because the opponent was running around a single tree. There's this thing where, due to ping, your hero won't initiate an autoattack despite A-clicking next to the target - not directly on him to avoid your hero stopping in place like in Jabawoogie's twitch clip. And because it's ping related you can't just load up practice mode and test it either. I think juking is also overpowered in HoN because of this ping issue. Sometimes it seems like you're right behind your target, but don't see him because of ping and server/client updating fog.

[ElementUser 839]

Regardless of that, it's how the game works & it's definitely too late to change at this time.

Edited December 13, 2021 by ElementUser

[twoscoopsREE 15]

So long as it's recognized that juking is better than it should be, and compromises melee autoattack heroes to a needless extent. If you are ranged, the projectile homing reveals the direction the juker is going, but if you're melee - not only are you given less information as to where the target's going, you also hit less. It should be super simple to make running away targets fade out later than they currently are to mitigate for ping, so melee gankers are more reliable.

[ElementUser 839]

Everything sounds super simple until you look at the actual code & see why there are certain delays & intervals that exist in the game & why they exist with those values in the first place.

Edited December 13, 2021 by ElementUser