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Patch 4.10.0 - Patch Discussion


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12 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

First off (lol):

 

wBt00l4.png

 

Second, good for you: your opponents didn't have enough nukes early game to face-melt you. If they had a support like Glacius instead of Vindicator, and a better carry in lane that can actually contribute, you'd be toast.

I'm glad you played Magebane the way you did in this game, because that is how he's supposed to played back in the WC3 DotA days. Unfortunately, most players don't play Magebane like you, and to be quite fair, Magebane doesn't have any mitigation tools to encourage him to play this way.

This is exactly what the rework aims to do. So I still don't see where the problem is - you had a decent game, but your opponents' picks were optimal to handle a suicide Magebane & so they got punished (granted, you weren't doing so hot either after they killed you at around levels 3-4).

Thanks for at least checking out the replay. 

I can comment on several aspects in the game, why I didn't succeed and stuffs like that, to convince you that those factors aren't due to Magebane's weakness. Not to mention the fact that a suicide Magebane reaching almost 500 gpm at some point, and a runed axe pick-up before 15 mins actually imply a success instead of failure.

But that would be pointless, as people have very different opinion and experience on things.

What I can do is, maybe I could browse my previous replays where I play Magebane suicide or mid versus a wide range of opponents, so we can filter out this meta effect?

I can guarantee you that Glacius wouldn't have made much of a difference. A simple level up in magic resistance would be suffice. Unless the support player is at least 2000 MMR (a.k.a. ones with experience with kiting).

 

9 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

Okay. But his concept overall is still the exact same as on release. So I still fail to see why you think Chipper was changed significantly (on a conceptual level) - these are a matter of numbers & not so much concept or identity of the hero.

Also, for the record: I was not the one who made these changes. Just an FYI.

So sorry for accusing you of something you did not do. My sincere apology!

Still, the patch note made itself very clear that the hero isn't suitable for middle role anymore as it is too similar to Bombardier by design (which to this day I couldn't even understand, similar in which aspect?). One thing I remember was the rescale of rocket damage based on distance to make the hero into a long-ranged nuker. From that patch on I completely stopped playing the hero and do not read whatever thereafter as the hero's visual and meta remains unchanged after that patch.

Edited by Acnowlogia
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It will receive patches deemed on a necessity basis.  I will say it is very likely 1 more patch will occur because we need to revert the Christmas map and UI back to how it was before. 

Great patch, like all the changes. 

Halberd cant have a mini stun. Cause some high attack speed early like MoA and Nitro will be too strong and wont let enemy have a chance to attack them. Normal Heroes doesn't have much Attack speed in

I believe those rocket changes made were from wza/SomaZ. I'm glad Chipper found a use for a secondary support though - I'm sure the hero still plays well mid, it's just not optimal these days (which HoN players are well-known for in terms of min-maxing) - Chipper turned into one after his rockets were made to work on neutrals again (which I did do). I don't see that specific part as a bad thing though, because Chipper has a role well-suited for him now.

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  • ElementUser changed the title to Patch 4.10.0 - Patch Discussion
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On 12/2/2021 at 2:29 AM, spartaaah said:

I think the nerf to nome's wisdom on some heroes is too strong, being a core item for some. Maybe instead of not applying the effect, apply a 30% or a lower value but do not remove it's effect completely imo

halberd seems a bit too strong... 60 physical damage for 1000 gold is a lot.. and it's a 30% chance too.. I think halberd should be more expensive and lower damage, like 1200 gold for 50 damage with a 25% chance sounds more reasonable specially for heroes like MOA, nitro, scout. And IDK if it stacks with itself but it should not. And savege mace should apply something like 75% true strike only. The remaining 25% of the non true strike hits still has 65%-85% chance of hitting, therefore savege mace would be a great counter for wingbow but would not render it useless 🙂

I think the change to grave locket is not that meaningful. I would suggest it being an orb of zamos + amulet of exile/soulscream ring/fortified bracer + 75 gold recipe...so that it encourages non dedicated support heroes to plan building it as early item when they are laning with  a carry and also having more options to do something with bracer/ring.

 

Please bring the old sand wraith back ❤️
 

For Halberd, I did the cost and damage efficiency calculations with Broadsword. Mathematically, Halberd has a slightly worse ratio, but gives partial True Strike as well. 

Edited by ElementUser
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Wingbow: With components changed with the inclusion of fauxbow. The characters who are meele, who wish to make this item have a small loss! Perhaps if it were possible, for meele heroes the components could include brass knucles

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On 11/30/2021 at 7:34 AM, Mr`Cactus said:

His ulti will immediately restrain for 2.5 seconds upon cast, seems reasonable to me.

Bramble isn't working at all now, Q doesn't proc Sheild and the E only props the additional damage without adding your attack dmg, hero doesn't have a shield spell to use now, totally useless hero now, win rate tanking and will likely bottom out at 45 percent. He needs to have his spells fixed so they work again.

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36 minutes ago, yourderpface said:

Bramble isn't working at all now, Q doesn't proc Sheild and the E only props the additional damage without adding your attack dmg, hero doesn't have a shield spell to use now, totally useless hero now, win rate tanking and will likely bottom out at 45 percent. He needs to have his spells fixed so they work again.

I literally just tested it right now after seeing your post. It works fine.

You know the heal/shield mechanic only works when dealing damage with those abilities to enemy heroes right?

Edited by ElementUser
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On 12/5/2021 at 12:33 PM, ElementUser said:

I literally just tested it right now after seeing your post. It works fine.

You know the heal/shield mechanic only works when dealing damage with those abilities to enemy heroes right?

Yes of course, the ability used to display your heal accumulated with a small white bar below your health bar, this no longer displays with q and E only is a very very small amount, which correlates to the added dmg when I remember it being the total of the bonus dmg (x) plus attack dmg (base dmg plus items etc). I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear but it am quite certain since I was solo chasing heros down many times in a game and I am used to seeing the bar accumulate unless I am tanking dmg from Heros or creeps etc, that bar didn’t display at all, and I sense the hero is much less tanky.

I’m only pointing it out, I could very well be wrong about it and it’s just a display issue.

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1 hour ago, YourDerpFace said:

Yes of course, the ability used to display your heal accumulated with a small white bar below your health bar, this no longer displays with q and E only is a very very small amount, which correlates to the added dmg when I remember it being the total of the bonus dmg (x) plus attack dmg (base dmg plus items etc). I’m sorry if I wasn’t clear but it am quite certain since I was solo chasing heros down many times in a game and I am used to seeing the bar accumulate unless I am tanking dmg from Heros or creeps etc, that bar didn’t display at all, and I sense the hero is much less tanky.

I’m only pointing it out, I could very well be wrong about it and it’s just a display issue.

You know the shield only pops up if your HP is full, right? She still heals if she's not at full HP. 

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About Halberd, i hope HoN will creat some heroes or items that actually can be used it in early game. (Current i can say Nitro is the only heroes who can buy one of it early and be fine)
In Doto 2, there are many heroes have a skill that applied their many auto attack as one to the target. (like pangolier, hoodwink). They are the heroes you can called "specialist" because they dont auto attack much even they build full of attack damage items

Edited by w3wstarboy
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Magebane currently sitting on 39% winrate. Not sure if the reworked really did what it promised. Although I basically acknowledge that something had to be done with the hero, I think it would have been enough to improve his statgain, so that even if you farm with 500 gpm at minute 20, you are  not running around with less life than a support. Think that would have solved a lot of problems already. 

Edited by cairosuite
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1 minute ago, cairosuite said:

Magebane currently sitting on 39% winrate. Not sure if the reworked really did what it promised. Although I basically acknowledge that something had to be done with the hero, I think it would have been enough to improve his statgain, so that even if you farm with 500 gpm at minute 20, you are  not running around with less life than a support. Think that would have solved a lot of problems already. 

 

Updates will be made to Magebane in the upcoming patch on Thursday.

It more than doubled his popularity, so despite his underperformance even after almost 2 weeks, he's still very popular. So it was the right move. Doing just stat changes to his old iteration would make him even more oppressive without solving his issues, so what you suggested is NOT the way to go. If you're wondering why, please read the justifications of the Magebane rework in the patch notes.

Edited by ElementUser
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30 minutes ago, datfizh said:

I wonder replay issue has already been fixed for next patch because we got 4.9.5 patch for that reason.

Did not get fixed (I tried viewing a replay from 4.9.5 on 4.10.0 and I cannot fully load the replay). So the hotfix versioning thing is scrapped.

Edited by ElementUser
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