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Patch 4.10.0 - Patch Discussion


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It will receive patches deemed on a necessity basis.  I will say it is very likely 1 more patch will occur because we need to revert the Christmas map and UI back to how it was before. 

Great patch, like all the changes. 

Halberd cant have a mini stun. Cause some high attack speed early like MoA and Nitro will be too strong and wont let enemy have a chance to attack them. Normal Heroes doesn't have much Attack speed in

Some good changes, decent QoLs. Most of them are really good.

I like the change/buff to Jeraziah's ult and I feel like the same treatment to his W would also be decent, but this works too...

Sapphire's ult getting buffed is really good as well, I like that one.

Magebane rework seems interesting, as I feel like the meta just ran over the hero... felt like he wasn't even the fastest farmer nor he was a decent pick in any situation, so I'm interested to see how it's gonna work. And I'm interested to see if spellshards are gonna be a decent pickup against the hero, or how will they work anyway as magebane now has extra magic dmg reduction. I'm looking forward to see how it's gonna work

Also I feel like knuckles and dawn are overperforming last half a year +- so it's strange to me that those 2 haven't been touched... but I'm hoping to see something regarding that in the next few patches.

Overall very good patch, agreed with most things

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 Sapphire needs a bigger buff since he's the hero who will get hit the most (and by faaaaar) with the riftshards nerf(since it's a must buy on him). Also why is riftshards getting nerfed again? I agree with the savage mage buff but you don't have to nerf riftshards aswell to make people buy that.

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14 minutes ago, Slovenia said:

 Sapphire needs a bigger buff since he's the hero who will get hit the most (and by faaaaar) with the riftshards nerf(since it's a must buy on him). Also why is riftshards getting nerfed again? I agree with the savage mage buff but you don't have to nerf riftshards aswell to make people buy that.

It does %Max HP damage. It's way better than even its Dota2 variant, and all for a lower cost with each piece of it being amazingly affordable (no large pieces you have to save for like Wingbow or Savage Mace). Of course it needs a nerf. 

Edited by ElementUser
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Honestly, I think that Savage Mace should be at 90% or at least 95% True Strike instead of 100%. Cause the item is a complete counter to evasion... At least give evasion a 5% chance when facing a mace so it has some usage for the amount that you've spent on it.

And just on a side note, maybe make Zephyrs Wind Shield work on melees as well but the miss % halved and give 5%/10% movement speed for 3 seconds after attacking someone (like it was before but toned down). Cause Savage Mace (and melee) just make that ability useless as well.

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Really great patch!

Just a thought - maybe Halberd can have 30% chance to gain true strike on autoattack, deal 60 bonus physical damage, and stun for 0.1 seconds? (To have an incentive to purchase it on its own as a buildup for Savage Mace)?

Not sure about it because it might be too strong (1000 gold item that gives the ability to disrupt channeling abilities is a bit strong)

Edited by Lunarios
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Halberd cant have a mini stun. Cause some high attack speed early like MoA and Nitro will be too strong and wont let enemy have a chance to attack them. Normal Heroes doesn't have much Attack speed in early/mid game.

Morasux: This hero have a problem that More Axes's Retraint remove it slow ms debuff. A strong 60% slow ms at 4 stack complete lost when enemy get restraint.

Mage Bane: This hero now is tanky AF for exchange of reduce cooldown in his blink. I can only hope that his armor does not high like before so physical carry can actually deal with him

Wingbow: So this item is now provide Attack range/Low Evasion for ranged and Move speed/Hight Evasion for melee ?? Faust bow still not worth to buy it early game.

Jade spire: Still no upgrate version

Jera + Tremble: Idk if EU sever know how broken combo when those two is picked and work together. Almost cant do anything without using some disable spell that pierce through magic immunity. And Now Jera's shield got buff. Ok, fine. Just Ban one of them.

Savage Mace: This item have such a low proc but have a serious high attack damage. A single item can give you 200 bonus damage on attack. I always think that this item should have high proc but lower the damage is better. And now you give it more stun time?? just image heroes like nitro and MOA or flint complete unharmed when attack melee heroes and they will scream with it.

 

Edited by w3_StarBoy
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RIP Garbageshards. I loled about them being better then doto counterpart. Sure Garbageshards have HP% damage, but chance is 33% lower compare to Daedalus.
I would actually like to have lower multiplayer and higher chance. Something like 20/23/26/30% to deal 1.15/1.30/1.55/1.70+10% HP.

P.S. I saw my Malike suggestion finally is in the game. Nice.

Edited by DemonSparda
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I feel like Empath and Rhapsody needs some love. Maybe even Martyr. 

I keep playing Empath and she is decent late game with built-in Astro and buffs on the ult. But I feel like I am skipping E most of the time and it feels underwhelming to have to aura. Maybe rework it like Glacius, so Empath passive will give allies +75/150/225/300 max HP and then +2/4/6/8 health regeneration and then maybe nerf Q a little bit. Would open up some different playstyles. 
Also I would suggest adding a subability to Link while she is inside an Ally so that the Link can be broken at will (Only in ulti). It feels awkward to try and stun someone because if it's a 2 second stun, it takes a second to get back + the second it takes to break the Link... 

Rhapsody needs a built-in blink effect to ever become a good hero. 

I loved it back when supports were getting love, sadly this is no longer the case. 😞

EDIT: Sorry forgot to add: Other than the miss on the supports the patch seems nice. LOVE the change on Maliken. Very good changes overall. The Jeraziah/Keeper purge thing is stupid. Two patches down the line we add it to barbed and no one will ever pick up Sand Scepter (which isn't an item I see a whole lot anyway tbh)

Edited by Thessaloniki
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5 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

Jera + Tremble: Idk if EU sever know how broken combo when those two is picked and work together. Almost cant do anything without using some disable spell that pierce through magic immunity. And Now Jera's shield got buff. Ok, fine. Just Ban one of them.

 

Jera' shield was not buffed. The change was only for his ult

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3 hours ago, Thessaloniki said:

I feel like Empath and Rhapsody needs some love. Maybe even Martyr. 

I keep playing Empath and she is decent late game with built-in Astro and buffs on the ult. But I feel like I am skipping E most of the time and it feels underwhelming to have to aura. Maybe rework it like Glacius, so Empath passive will give allies +75/150/225/300 max HP and then +2/4/6/8 health regeneration and then maybe nerf Q a little bit. Would open up some different playstyles. 
Also I would suggest adding a subability to Link while she is inside an Ally so that the Link can be broken at will (Only in ulti). It feels awkward to try and stun someone because if it's a 2 second stun, it takes a second to get back + the second it takes to break the Link... 

Rhapsody needs a built-in blink effect to ever become a good hero. 

I loved it back when supports were getting love, sadly this is no longer the case. 😞

EDIT: Sorry forgot to add: Other than the miss on the supports the patch seems nice. LOVE the change on Maliken. Very good changes overall. The Jeraziah/Keeper purge thing is stupid. Two patches down the line we add it to barbed and no one will ever pick up Sand Scepter (which isn't an item I see a whole lot anyway tbh)

Have you seen the win rates for support heroes? They're doing really well now. 

 

Also, no we're not going to do that to Barbed Armor. 

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4 hours ago, DemonSparda said:

RIP Garbageshards. I loled about them being better then doto counterpart. Sure Garbageshards have HP% damage, but chance is 33% lower compare to Daedalus.
I would actually like to have lower multiplayer and higher chance. Something like 20/23/26/30% to deal 1.15/1.30/1.55/1.70+10% HP.

P.S. I saw my Malike suggestion finally is in the game. Nice.

It's a 700 gold nerf. Let's not exaggerate the effects of the change, but rather that its effect comes at a much more fair price point. 

Edited by ElementUser
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as a sapphire player i really like the small buff on her ultimate, it really helps to counter people who just spamm pk and dissapear right after the ult ends 😄

Always wished it dealt a little dmg so it cancels pk spamming. ^-^

myrm change sounds very interesting, if you get good farm you can semi carry with him better.

 

i really really like the staffed blacksmith nerf, him auto attacking and multicasting was way to powerful, also the mana cost has been increased,good!

Aluna attack speed steal increased by 10 will make her a viable pick for mid lane again imo. ^-^

Im very interested in the soulstealer +70 cast speed when staffed... would you buy it on him?

 

 

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So, I suppose i'll go into detail why this patch is terrible and should be postponed

First. 

The magebane rework.

I don't really know exactly how its going to play out, but I recall magebane being picked for the role of sui/mid as kind of a joke pick against teams. The reality of it; is that hes actually viable in the right hands at these roles as he currently sits. You get greaves vanguard mock kinda play like a mm sui or mid does. and just sit on enemy teams face and drain mana. With this rework I think this role is now extremely exaggerated. I have a question. Should Magebane actually drain mana?

Kongor boss enchantment Vitality

This is a too much. I think remove the healing received per charged all together. and reduce the health to 100.

Kongor speed enchantment 

This is too big of a nerf, it will rarely be picked over the others. Even though it still holds use it seems unnecessary.

Adrenaline.

Should never be buffed, but nerfed into non existence. The hero promotes toxic play style for not only the enemy team but his own.

Aluna.

Why touch a hero that does not need anything changed? Maybe someone complained; but we gotta grit out teeth and say fuck you the hero is a good spot even though the change is very small.

Bombardier

The hero already does massive damage, its the same concept as aluna the hero is already good and in a good place, so why buff it.

Cthuluphant 

Again and again and again, why touch a hero that does not need nerfs? The hero is tanky to make use of his passive. If anything if you nerf the strength perhaps buff his passive so it remains viable (even though the passive is very weak regardless but that passive has been out of control before)

Deadwood

4x of heroes that dont need buffs receiving one. this will get tiresome as im running down the list and see more.

Defiler

5x 

Doctor Replusor

KEEP HIM NERFED DOWN AND STOP GIVING IN. The hero is toxic to play against and promotes toxic gameplay. If anything he needs even more nerfs we dont need him in the game

Electrician

6x this hero should not be buffed but nerfed. He can block too much damage with his shield its actually crazy if u get him low on hp and even if he has low mana its like it does not even matter.

Flint

the hero promotes toxic gameplay, and should be nerfed into non existence when hes played mid it is one of the most frustrating things in the world of newerth.

Keeper of the Forrest

If keeper is played correctly he is too powerful. Its always good to have monarch or even pearl sand scepter to save the carry. Even then sometimes its not enough. He can root you for an extremely long time and even though you can build to counter it, the build up hurts just as much as the ulti hurts. No one wants to build geo into there kit no one wants to build a fast shruken. I don't see the purpose of making this change when keeper is already so powerful in the right hands even against those supposed counters.

Kinesis

7x does not need a buff even something that seems like a QoL change.

Lodestone

This is not a hero that needs buffs, if someone is complaining about this hero they need a skill check because this is one of the best sui heroes in the game. Try codex pkey lodestone, you'll run the game. revert the buffs.

Maliken 

8x does not need any buffs even though it seems like a QoL change its significant becasue before you'd play extremely low in the jungle (thats how you effetinetly farmed with maliken) now you can play with a higher threshold of health making him even tougher to fight. Please revert this, maliken will be insane because of this change. You know all the times you see a mali live with 10 hp fighting two or three heroes. Well now he can do it with 10% of his max hp, that is more insane then you realise i think.

Nitro

LEAVE THIS HERO NERFED OUT OF EXISTENCE. He promotes toxic gameplay.

Parallax

Needs more nerfs, even though this is one of the heroes I wouldnt mind were just gone in general because he promotes toxic gameplay. He should have 2 changes of his q i think? at all levels. Nerf the damage.

Pebbles

9x does not need any changes and definitely not buffs.

Puppetmaster

PROMOTES TOXIC GAMEPLAY, he can one shot heroes, now if he cant one shot them he can take his time to kill them. IMO remove the amplification of this spell altogether and its hp, and just summon the voodo puppet for a specific time like 6 seconds. and maybe MAYBE make the attacks deal superior magic damage.

Riptide

DO NOT BUFF THIS HEROES NUKES he does too much damage as he already sits, and should have more scaling instead. Reduce overall damage, give him more scaling give him more strength reduce his attack speed.

Saphhire

This is the most broken hero in HoN right now, and to be frank needs to be absolutely butchered so no one will even want to play her again. The ulti should not exist the Pillar should not exist, the 2 or 2.5 second stun i think should not exist, the shield thats better then gunblades with more uptime and increases attack speed should not exist. IF ANYONE is complaining this hero needs buffs is a fucking idiot.

Tremble

Much like riptide you should not increase the cooldown of the ulti as it does too much damage. They're both the type of heroes where if they fail they fail hard but if they succeede they completely take over the match they need more scaling and less early damage and damage output. Increasing the cooldown will make him even more difficult if he gets out of control and does not promote healthy gameplay.

Now lets go into the items

Faux bow.

Down right TOO GOOD not a single ranged hero is going to want to skip this item. This also completely negates any need for madfreds knuckles but does have potential sync as the items are both in expensive and really powerful making early game ranged carrys an actual problem. I highly implore you to increase the cost, or make the build up not build into wingbow. It needs to cost at least 2.5k

Wingbow

Does not need buffs, does not need nerfs but you did this as a way for faux bow build up to work. revert completely this is terrible. Ranged carry heroes will be uncontrollable and everyone will be begging for nerfs when this will be a major contributing factor.

Halberd

This is literally only good against zephyer it really has no place other then that and maybe on flint, but flint shouldnt even exist.

Savagemace

Why? Why are we buffing things and changing things that already work? I just don't understand, this item is now super cheap for what it does. Completely revert this, this will just add onto ranged carrys being potentially broken this patch.

Dawnbringer

No one will purchase dawnbringer now, with maybe the exception of a few meele carrys. But now they're way better items for ranged carrys this item will be obsolete which maybe isnt a bad thing.

Frostwolfs Skull

This item does not need a buff, EVERY ranged carry should purchase this item now. You have no purpose to build SnY now becasue faux bow will grant you the attack speed and damage you need. Now alls your missing is HARD damage like shield breaker or HEALTH + DAMAGE like this item. AND it has amazing utility with its wolves it was already an extremely underrated item for what it does now its even better.

Golden Apple

Increase the damage back to 2, their is nothing wrong with giving this item that added bonus. It'll just make for more "generalized" builds. Instead of maybe opting out getting tangos for an increase of 2 damage. now the purpose has drastically decreased. I see no point to this.

 

If I did not mention something its because I have no opinion the change is good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, jabawoogie said:

So, I suppose i'll go into detail why this patch is terrible and should be postponed

First. 

The magebane rework.

I don't really know exactly how its going to play out, but I recall magebane being picked for the role of sui/mid as kind of a joke pick against teams. The reality of it; is that hes actually viable in the right hands at these roles as he currently sits. You get greaves vanguard mock kinda play like a mm sui or mid does. and just sit on enemy teams face and drain mana. With this rework I think this role is now extremely exaggerated. I have a question. Should Magebane actually drain mana?

Kongor boss enchantment Vitality

This is a too much. I think remove the healing received per charged all together. and reduce the health to 100.

Kongor speed enchantment 

This is too big of a nerf, it will rarely be picked over the others. Even though it still holds use it seems unnecessary.

Adrenaline.

Should never be buffed, but nerfed into non existence. The hero promotes toxic play style for not only the enemy team but his own.

Aluna.

Why touch a hero that does not need anything changed? Maybe someone complained; but we gotta grit out teeth and say fuck you the hero is a good spot even though the change is very small.

Bombardier

The hero already does massive damage, its the same concept as aluna the hero is already good and in a good place, so why buff it.

Cthuluphant 

Again and again and again, why touch a hero that does not need nerfs? The hero is tanky to make use of his passive. If anything if you nerf the strength perhaps buff his passive so it remains viable (even though the passive is very weak regardless but that passive has been out of control before)

Deadwood

4x of heroes that dont need buffs receiving one. this will get tiresome as im running down the list and see more.

Defiler

5x 

Doctor Replusor

KEEP HIM NERFED DOWN AND STOP GIVING IN. The hero is toxic to play against and promotes toxic gameplay. If anything he needs even more nerfs we dont need him in the game

Electrician

6x this hero should not be buffed but nerfed. He can block too much damage with his shield its actually crazy if u get him low on hp and even if he has low mana its like it does not even matter.

Flint

the hero promotes toxic gameplay, and should be nerfed into non existence when hes played mid it is one of the most frustrating things in the world of newerth.

Keeper of the Forrest

If keeper is played correctly he is too powerful. Its always good to have monarch or even pearl sand scepter to save the carry. Even then sometimes its not enough. He can root you for an extremely long time and even though you can build to counter it, the build up hurts just as much as the ulti hurts. No one wants to build geo into there kit no one wants to build a fast shruken. I don't see the purpose of making this change when keeper is already so powerful in the right hands even against those supposed counters.

Kinesis

7x does not need a buff even something that seems like a QoL change.

Lodestone

This is not a hero that needs buffs, if someone is complaining about this hero they need a skill check because this is one of the best sui heroes in the game. Try codex pkey lodestone, you'll run the game. revert the buffs.

Maliken 

8x does not need any buffs even though it seems like a QoL change its significant becasue before you'd play extremely low in the jungle (thats how you effetinetly farmed with maliken) now you can play with a higher threshold of health making him even tougher to fight. Please revert this, maliken will be insane because of this change. You know all the times you see a mali live with 10 hp fighting two or three heroes. Well now he can do it with 10% of his max hp, that is more insane then you realise i think.

Nitro

LEAVE THIS HERO NERFED OUT OF EXISTENCE. He promotes toxic gameplay.

Parallax

Needs more nerfs, even though this is one of the heroes I wouldnt mind were just gone in general because he promotes toxic gameplay. He should have 2 changes of his q i think? at all levels. Nerf the damage.

Pebbles

9x does not need any changes and definitely not buffs.

Puppetmaster

PROMOTES TOXIC GAMEPLAY, he can one shot heroes, now if he cant one shot them he can take his time to kill them. IMO remove the amplification of this spell altogether and its hp, and just summon the voodo puppet for a specific time like 6 seconds. and maybe MAYBE make the attacks deal superior magic damage.

Riptide

DO NOT BUFF THIS HEROES NUKES he does too much damage as he already sits, and should have more scaling instead. Reduce overall damage, give him more scaling give him more strength reduce his attack speed.

Saphhire

This is the most broken hero in HoN right now, and to be frank needs to be absolutely butchered so no one will even want to play her again. The ulti should not exist the Pillar should not exist, the 2 or 2.5 second stun i think should not exist, the shield thats better then gunblades with more uptime and increases attack speed should not exist. IF ANYONE is complaining this hero needs buffs is a fucking idiot.

Tremble

Much like riptide you should not increase the cooldown of the ulti as it does too much damage. They're both the type of heroes where if they fail they fail hard but if they succeede they completely take over the match they need more scaling and less early damage and damage output. Increasing the cooldown will make him even more difficult if he gets out of control and does not promote healthy gameplay.

Now lets go into the items

Faux bow.

Down right TOO GOOD not a single ranged hero is going to want to skip this item. This also completely negates any need for madfreds knuckles but does have potential sync as the items are both in expensive and really powerful making early game ranged carrys an actual problem. I highly implore you to increase the cost, or make the build up not build into wingbow. It needs to cost at least 2.5k

Wingbow

Does not need buffs, does not need nerfs but you did this as a way for faux bow build up to work. revert completely this is terrible. Ranged carry heroes will be uncontrollable and everyone will be begging for nerfs when this will be a major contributing factor.

Halberd

This is literally only good against zephyer it really has no place other then that and maybe on flint, but flint shouldnt even exist.

Savagemace

Why? Why are we buffing things and changing things that already work? I just don't understand, this item is now super cheap for what it does. Completely revert this, this will just add onto ranged carrys being potentially broken this patch.

Dawnbringer

No one will purchase dawnbringer now, with maybe the exception of a few meele carrys. But now they're way better items for ranged carrys this item will be obsolete which maybe isnt a bad thing.

Frostwolfs Skull

This item does not need a buff, EVERY ranged carry should purchase this item now. You have no purpose to build SnY now becasue faux bow will grant you the attack speed and damage you need. Now alls your missing is HARD damage like shield breaker or HEALTH + DAMAGE like this item. AND it has amazing utility with its wolves it was already an extremely underrated item for what it does now its even better.

Golden Apple

Increase the damage back to 2, their is nothing wrong with giving this item that added bonus. It'll just make for more "generalized" builds. Instead of maybe opting out getting tangos for an increase of 2 damage. now the purpose has drastically decreased. I see no point to this.

 

If I did not mention something its because I have no opinion the change is good.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Have you looked at hero win rates?

 

Also......do you realize a trend with your sentiments? You think every second hero is a "toxic hero".

Edited by ElementUser
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Well you balance around statistics my balance is around what is actually broken and what isnt.

Those hero concepts promote non healthy gameplay

you can see why i even am an advocate for wanting changes for this patch because I said something at all. You just happen to buff all the heros that do not need buffs and promote unhealthy gameplay.

This patch is ridiculous.

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3 minutes ago, jabawoogie said:

Well you balance around statistics my balance is around what is actually broken and what isnt.

Those hero concepts promote non healthy gameplay

you can see why i even am an advocate for wanting changes for this patch because I said something at all. You just happen to buff all the heros that do not need buffs and promote unhealthy gameplay.

This patch is ridiculous.

FYI, I did make some changes based on your feedback: 

 

What is "unhealthy" and "toxic" gameplay by your definition?

 

What is "actually broken"? What determines that? Who does?

 

I can't please everybody, and your personal preferences are biased by definition.

Edited by ElementUser
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Well I may be over exaggerating by using the word broken.

But they promote un healthy gameplay. It is not fun to play against a Flint Beastwood mid; It is not fun to play against a Doctor Replusor with HellFlower; It is not fun to play against sapphire who can clear waves as fast as mk can; It is not fun to play against a sapphire who pops shield against any threat of damage negating nukes whilst she hits u with her crystal it is not fun to play against a sapphire who goes invisible or uses pkey to stun u for 2 or 2.5 seconds? then proceed to instantly kill you with her pillar. it is not fun to be sieged by a sapphire who throws pillar and one shots backline supports if they dare get close it is not fun to play against a sapphire who ults when you're finally about to kill her; it is not fun to be ran down by a nitro with no practical counter; it is not fun to be one shot by puppetmaster or if u survive it is not fun to run away from 7 seconds of restraint; it is not fun to play against a deadlift with staff of the master; it is not fun to play against a deadlift who revives everyone on enemy team; it is not fun to play against a deadlift that mindlessly onslaughts your towers;

My list could go on and on for about 15 heroes. All of these heroes are un healthy for the game for the statements above and more that i failed to mention. Personally because anything I say about anything in general is always going to biased in an unperfect environment such as this one. I fail the need to mention this, either you disagree or not. And provide information explaining your side yes?

 

Or fail to do so making the other party impartial to you.

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