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ItsOKToDance

Ping Check (Desperately Needed)

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Posted (edited)

Hey all,

Did a quick Ctrl + F and didn't find it, but I have no doubt this has been suggested before.

As an Australian server player, every game I play will have between 2 and 6 players who have ended up on AUS servers by accident with 300 to 500ms ping.
This results in the first 5 minutes of every game with remake votes, people typing furiously back and forth in various languages -- ultimately ending up in a ruined game for one or both teams.

During the asset load phase, once the regions have been selected, you must implement a ping check for the selected servers. If your connection is over 200ms, that particular region will be removed. While this may lead to longer wait times, there will undoubtedly be a higher quality game for all those who end up connecting. 

Unsure if this problem transcends my region, but ask any Australian server player -- this is a MUST have.

Edited by ItsOKToDance

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Posted (edited)

This would cause Latino players to not be able to ruin... I mean play on the NA servers so I very much doubt something like this would ever be implemented lol.

Edited by DemonicRuins

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32 minutes ago, DemonicRuins said:

This would cause Latino players to not be able to ruin... I mean play on the NA servers so I very much doubt something like this would ever be implemented lol.

Fine, well how about a second layer of protection. Let whoever queue for wherever. But allow players to opt out of "pinger" games. Maximum liberty for all.

People can choose to suffer through 400ms ping and ruin games and others can choose not to play with that breed of human.

Just a big checkbox under the server list. "I'M OKAY WITH HAVING A BAD TIME"

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People suggest stuff like this for years and it will never happen - at least not as drastic as suggested.

Why not suggest that people get a warning "you have enabled Matchmaking on regions you will most likely encounter lags because of your physical distance. Do you want to have the following regions removed from your options: X, Y, Z?"

That won't fix the problem, but will be a feature for everyone instead of an exclusion mechanism. And it will be much more reasonable to implement this.

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10 minutes ago, Manu311 said:

People suggest stuff like this for years and it will never happen - at least not as drastic as suggested.

Why not suggest that people get a warning "you have enabled Matchmaking on regions you will most likely encounter lags because of your physical distance. Do you want to have the following regions removed from your options: X, Y, Z?"

That won't fix the problem, but will be a feature for everyone instead of an exclusion mechanism. And it will be much more reasonable to implement this.

This. Often when I play with someone who hasn't played in a while and he ends up being the queue leader, we get a game on a high ping server. Part of the reason is that some servers somehow get chosen by default, because of a new patch/fresh install and we forget to untick unwanted servers. Another cause is that the server list is hidden? in the new UI (I'm playing with the old one, but I know that it's in a drop down menu or something up in the right corner) and you can't see which servers you are queueing for. Having a simple warning pop up before you queue high ping servers would help eliminating this issue.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/11/2020 at 9:16 PM, ItsOKToDance said:

Fine, well how about a second layer of protection. Let whoever queue for wherever. But allow players to opt out of "pinger" games. Maximum liberty for all.

People can choose to suffer through 400ms ping and ruin games and others can choose not to play with that breed of human.

Just a big checkbox under the server list. "I'M OKAY WITH HAVING A BAD TIME"

HoN has been up for what 11-12 years now?  In all that time when has S2 and now FB ever implemented anything that actually provided a "true" quality of life perk to the community?  Since the dawn of HoN the community has asked for regional locking, language locking and yes even ping locking, and never once did S2 or FB implement it.  QoL changes like these would have materially diminished toxicity and overall improved the health of the game but for some unexplained reason were never added.  Those issues caused the mass exodus where HoN's player base was cut by well over 50% and has been in steady decline ever since (I don't have actual figures given S2 and now FB I'm sure would never release that).  I do know they did do region locking at one point but it was a case of too little too late where it was already after tens of thousands had closed the book on HoN never to be reopened.  The overall point is while HoN is undoubtedly the superior MOBA to those that still hold true to the original Dota the sheer fact it has been so poorly managed has led to this.

Edited by DemonicRuins
grammar
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50 minutes ago, DemonicRuins said:

HoN has been up for what 11-12 years now?  In all that time when has S2 and now FB ever implemented anything that actually provided a "true" quality of life perk to the community?  Since the dawn of HoN the community has asked for regional locking, language locking and yes even ping locking, and never once did S2 or FB implement it.  QoL changes like these would have materially diminished toxicity and overall improve the health of the game but for some unexplained reason were never added.  Those issues caused the mass exodus where HoN's player base was caught by well over 50% (I don't have actual figures given S2 and now FB I'm sure would never release that).  I do know they did do region locking at one point but it was a case of too little too late where it was already after tens of thousands had closed the book on HoN never to be reopened.  The overall point is while HoN is undoubtedly the superior MOBA to those that still hold true to the original Dota the sheer fact it has been so poorly managed has led to this.

Amen.

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21 hours ago, DemonicRuins said:

HoN has been up for what 11-12 years now?  In all that time when has S2 and now FB ever implemented anything that actually provided a "true" quality of life perk to the community?  Since the dawn of HoN the community has asked for regional locking, language locking and yes even ping locking, and never once did S2 or FB implement it.  QoL changes like these would have materially diminished toxicity and overall improved the health of the game but for some unexplained reason were never added.  Those issues caused the mass exodus where HoN's player base was cut by well over 50% and has been in steady decline ever since (I don't have actual figures given S2 and now FB I'm sure would never release that).  I do know they did do region locking at one point but it was a case of too little too late where it was already after tens of thousands had closed the book on HoN never to be reopened.  The overall point is while HoN is undoubtedly the superior MOBA to those that still hold true to the original Dota the sheer fact it has been so poorly managed has led to this.

That's not true man, S2 did the worse move ever made for HON, they move all Latins to Axeso5, losing thousand of hundred players on Americas. They they bring up Latins and Brazilians back to International HoN. What we need is stop being penny pincher supporting HON buying gold and doing free marketing on social networks.
Because betters servers are translated to spent more budget.

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2 hours ago, SARS_COV_2 said:

That's not true man, S2 did the worse move ever made for HON, they move all Latins to Axeso5, losing thousand of hundred players on Americas. They they bring up Latins and Brazilians back to International HoN. What we need is stop being penny pincher supporting HON buying gold and doing free marketing on social networks.
Because betters servers are translated to spent more budget.

I will not even spend a penny just to hope things will improve.

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Posted (edited)
On 5/26/2020 at 11:37 PM, SARS_COV_2 said:

That's not true man, S2 did the worse move ever made for HON, they move all Latins to Axeso5, losing thousand of hundred players on Americas. They they bring up Latins and Brazilians back to International HoN. What we need is stop being penny pincher supporting HON buying gold and doing free marketing on social networks.
Because betters servers are translated to spent more budget.

that wasn't a "true" quality of life change made though given it was at the expense of the Latino player base.  My whole and only point is give players the ability to "choose" what kind of game they are going to have.  Look at it like this...  What is Heroes of Newerth?  The answer is HoN is a Team of 5, Fast Paced, 3rd Person, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.  When you have a team of 5 it automatically implies that each member of that team needs to contribute to the team to outplay and best your opponents who are also a Team of 5 looking to do the same to you, now hold onto that thought because we will be circling back to it later.  Now there is one singular thing that is needed in every game to win, that thing is "STRATEGY".  Now if we break down the definition of strategy it is summarized as "The PLANNING and DIRECTING of actions".  Those two words are profound.... "Planning" & "Directing".  Both those words are very different yet require the same, what they require is "Communication".  Now if we do the same for "Communication" as we did for "Strategy" then communication is summarized as "The MEANS of sending and/or receiving INFORMATION".  Again think about those two words being "Means" & "Information".  Again both words are very different yet they are required in tandem for "Communication" to exist.  Now it is already established both in empirical and historical data that in a contest between two or more parties that the one with the best strategy is likely favored to triumph.  So strategy is everything in a MOBA, for strategy to happen we have already established that communication must be present and paramount.  I can't help but reflect on a scene in "Game of Thrones" where Robert Baratheon the King was conversing with Cersei Lannister the Queen.  In the scene he asked her which was the greater number, 5 or 1.  He then held up his hands and one hand he showed an open palm symbolizing 5 individual fingers and in the other hand he showed those same 5 fingers clenched into a fist to represent one. He then went on to say "One army, a real army, united under one cause with one purpose" (granted I did paraphrase there but the speech is profound none the less especially in regards to a MOBA like HoN).  Really think about that scene and how well it can be applied to HoN.  You can have 5 individual players just doing their own thing or your can have a team synced together working towards a goal.  Which one do you think will win?  The easy and correct choice would be the 5 players working in unison.  Now circling back to the "Team of 5" concept.  When you have 5 individual players if 1 or more of those players are unable to relay or take in information given by the team due to a language barrier than out the gate "Communication" is lost.  With "Communication" lost then "Strategy" is lost with it since we can not have one without the other.  Entering into a match without those two "ESSENTIAL" components will guarantee a loss and furthermore will breed "TOXICITY".  Now I have never been a big fan of tyrannical actions made by a game developer/owner forcing it's patrons into situations they did not consensually agree to be in.  I have always been an advocate for players having the "FREEDOM" of choice.  When the Developers/Owners of HoN say to me as the player "You have to play this MOBA void of all strategy and communication, a MOBA that ACTIVELY tracks and records your stats because we are too lazy to implement the simplest of choice selections" then I as a player use what little freedom I have to not patronize them and give them my hard earned money.

Now it's not hard to realize and understand that some games it doesn't matter if everyone on your team is able to communicate with each other.  In some games you just have a troll that for no apparent reason just wants to make the team suffer to satisfy their own sadistic wants and/or needs.  That is one thing that spans across all races, creeds and nationalities.  I can admit it as I'm sure all players can admit it. We have all endured those suffer games with that one select player who makes it their sole mission to make you lose.  I'm sure we can all admit that those games while enraging are few and far between and pale in comparison to the number of games where there is just no communication because of a vast language barrier.  For me personally it's "EASIER" to accept a loss when my team was just truly outplayed than it is to accept a loss because my team was unable to communicate with one another due to aforementioned language barrier.  It's one thing to lose a horse race because the other horse is just faster as opposed to having your horse hobbled at the starting gate sort of deal.  For one being outplayed is a "learning" experience and a chance to get better where as being gimped at the start there is nothing to learn from it.... you were DOA (dead on arrival) sort of speak.

What it all boils down to is the simple concepts of being "FORCED" and there being a "CHOICE".  One fosters a bad experience and toxicity and the other fosters a good experience and growth.  A long long time ago when HoN first came out I posted my suggestion of setting up a "Language Filter" (within the first 3-4 months of HoN's release, was during BETA on my true main account that has since been lost to me).  Even then I could see the coming storms that would shatter this great game.  Some called me racist, some called me moronic, some called me "Chicken Little".  What eventually happened as I and many foresaw.  The thousands of posts of angry gamers complaining about not being able to "Communicate" with their team.  S2's unwillingness to even acknowledge the valid complaints and then finally the mass exodus.  Now many back then called for regional locking.  I can't honestly remember if I joined that band wagon or not.  I knew a lot of LAT players that genuinely just had worse ping/lag on the LAT servers which is why they flocked to the NA servers and honestly I can't blame them for I would too if in their predicament.  Which is why I suggest the language filters.  It would allow the LAT player base to play on NA servers and be able to have "Communication" & "Strategy" with their team while also allowing NA players to have the same.  All would prosper and nothing would be "FORCED", the players would have a "CHOICE".  It's no secret that nothing "meaningful" was ever done and the game has suffered both population and toxicity wise ever since.

Now you can sit there and say "Why is this such a big deal for you?" and that question would be fair. Firstly part of it is a big deal for me because I was a huge Dota player going all they way back to Aeons of Strife on Starcraft.  Arguably the first edition of what would be come Dota Allstars on WCIII RoC.  Seeing as HoN is the only MOBA that has stayed true to the original concept of Dota more so than even Dota2 it's no secret that HoN would always hold a special place on my hard drive.  Secondly I am one of the few players it seems now that actually "BOUGHT" my account.  When HoN first released it was a "B2P" (buy to play).  I believe it was $29.99 or near that and all my sub accounts.  So I have a capital connection with my account since I payed for it, not like the tens of thousands of "freebie" players.  While millions flocked to the "F2P" (Free to Play) League of Legends, thousands of us bought into HoN because we believed in the original vision of Dota.  Now that does not mean my opinion as a paying player should trump another's who hasn't put in the capital.  It does however mean that I have more "skin in the game" if you will.

To end this what started out to be short respond which has turned out to be a long one I would like to say that I still believe that HoN could be the best MOBA on the gaming scene right now.  A few "SIMPLE" alterations to matchmaking and HoN would reign as the "go to" for true competitive play.  As it sits now HoN is nothing more than a cesspool of toxicity and trolls.  With absentee developers/owners who aren't willing to ruffle a few feathers for the greater good of this beloved game.  The excuse can and will be made that there isn't enough money to implement some lines of code to remedy the issues plaguing this game.  In which case I reply if you honestly put up a kickstarter or gofundme to remedy these issues I know I will gladly commit to it and seeing as how no one is unique then that would mean there are many more just like there who would as well.

Edited by DemonicRuins
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10 minutes ago, DemonicRuins said:

that wasn't a "true" quality of life change made though given it was at the expense of the Latino player base.  My whole and only point is give players the ability to "choose" what kind of game they are going to have.  Look at it like this...  What is Heroes of Newerth?  The answer is HoN is a Team of 5, Fast Paced, 3rd Person, Multiplayer Online Battle Arena.  When you have a team of 5 it automatically implies that each member of that team needs to contribute to the team to outplay and best your opponents who are also a Team of 5 looking to do the same to you, now hold onto that thought because we will be circling back to it later.  Now there is one singular thing that is needed in every game to win, that thing is "STRATEGY".  Now if we break down the definition of strategy it is summarized as "The PLANNING and DIRECTING of actions".  Those two words are profound.... "Planning" & "Directing".  Both those words are very different yet require the same, what they require is "Communication".  Now if we do the same for "Communication" as we did for "Strategy" then communication is summarized as "The MEANS of sending and/or receiving INFORMATION".  Again think about those two words being "Means" & "Information".  Again both words are very different yet they are required in tandem for "Communication" to exist.  Now it is already established both in empirical and historical data that in a contest between two or more parties that the one with the best "strategy is likely favored to triumph.  So strategy is everything in a MOBA, for strategy to happen we have already established that communication must be present and paramount.  I can't help but reflect on a scene in "Game of Thrones" where Robert Baratheon the King was conversing with Cersei Lannister the Queen.  In the scene he asked her which was the greater number, 5 or 1.  He then held up his hands and one hand he showed an open palm symbolizing 5 individual fingers and in the other hand he showed those same 5 fingers clenched into a fist to represent one. He then went on to say "One army, a real army, united under one cause with one purpose" (granted I did paraphrase there but the speech is profound none the less especially in regards to a MOBA like HoN).  Really think about that scene and how well it can be applied to HoN.  You can have 5 individual players just doing their own thing or your can have a team synced together working towards a goal.  Which one do you think will win?  The easy and correct choice would be the 5 players working in unison.  Now circling back to the "Team of 5" concept.  When you have 5 individual players if 1 or more of those players are unable to relay or take in information given by the team due to a language barrier than out the gate "Communication" is lost.  With "Communication" lost then "Strategy" is lost with it since we can not have one without the other.  Entering into a match without those two "ESSENTIAL" components will guarantee a loss and furthermore will breed "TOXICITY".  Now I have never been a big fan of tyrannical actions made by a game developer/owner forcing it's patrons into situations they did not consensually agree to be in.  I have always been an advocate for players having the "FREEDOM" of choice.  When the Developers/Owners of HoN say to me as the player "You have to play this MOBA void of all strategy and communication, a MOBA that ACTIVELY tracks and records your stats because we are too lazy to implement the simplest of choice selections" then I as a player use what little freedom I have to not patronize them and give them my hard earned money.

Now it's not hard to realize and understand that some games it doesn't matter if everyone on your team is able to communicate with each other.  In some games you just have a troll that for no apparent reason just wants to make the team suffer to satisfy their own sadistic wants and/or needs.  That is one thing that spans across all races, creeds and nationalities.  I can admit it as I'm sure all players can admit it. We have all endured those suffer games with that one select player who makes it their sole mission to make you lose.  I'm sure we can all admit that those games while enraging are few and far between and pale in comparison to the number of games where there is just no communication because of a vast language barrier.  For me personally it's "EASIER" to accept a loss when my team was just truly outplayed than it is to accept a loss because my team was unable to communicate with one another due to aforementioned language barrier.  It's one thing to lose a horse race because the other horse is just faster as opposed to having your horse hobbled at the starting gate sort of deal.  For one being outplayed is a "learning" experience and a chance to get better where as being gimped at the start there is nothing to learn from it.... you were DOA (dead on arrival) sort of speak.

What it all boils down to is the simple concepts of being "FORCED" and there being a "CHOICE".  One fosters a bad experience and toxicity and the other fosters a good experience and growth.  A long long time ago when HoN first came out I posted my suggestion of setting up a "Language Filter" (within the first 3-4 months of HoN's release, was during BETA on my true main account that has since been lost to me).  Even then I could see the coming storms that would shatter this great game.  Some called me racist, some called me moronic, some called me "Chicken Little".  What eventually happened as I and many foresaw.  The thousands of posts of angry gamers complaining about not being able to "Communicate" with their team.  S2's unwillingness to even acknowledge the valid complaints and then finally the mass exodus.  Now many back then called for regional locking.  I can't honestly remember if I joined that band wagon or not.  I knew a lot of LAT players that genuinely just had worse ping/lag on the LAT servers which is why they flocked to the NA servers and honestly I can't blame them for I would too if in their predicament.  Which is why I suggest the language filters.  It would allow the LAT player base to play on NA servers and be able to have "Communication" & "Strategy" with their team while also allowing NA players to have the same.  All would prosper and nothing would be "FORCED", the players would have a "CHOICE".  It's no secret that nothing "meaningful" was ever done and the game has suffered both population and toxicity wise ever since.

Now you can sit there and say "Why is this such a big deal for you?" and that question would be fair. Firstly part of it is a big deal for me because I was a huge Dota player going all they way back to Aeons of Strife on Starcraft.  Arguably the first edition of what would be come Dota Allstars on WCIII RoC.  Seeing as HoN is the only MOBA that has stayed true to the original concept of Dota more so than even Dota2 it's no secret that HoN would always hold a special place on my hard drive.  Secondly I am one of the few players it seems now that actually "BOUGHT" my account.  When HoN first released it was a "B2P" (buy to play).  I believe it was $29.99 or near that and all my sub accounts.  So I have a capital connection with my account since I payed for it, not like the tens of thousands of "freebie" players.  While millions flocked to the "F2P" (Free to Play) League of Legends, thousands of us bought into HoN because we believed in the original vision of Dota.  Now that does not mean my opinion as a paying player should trump another's who hasn't put in the capital.  It does however mean that I have more "skin in the game" if you will.

To end this what started out to be short respond which has turned out to be a long one I would like to say that I still believe that HoN could be the best MOBA on the gaming scene right now.  A few "SIMPLE" alterations to matchmaking and HoN would reign as the "go to" for true competitive play.  As it sits now HoN is nothing more than a cesspool of toxicity and trolls.  With absentee developers/owners who aren't willing to ruffle a few feathers for the greater good of this beloved game.  The excuse can and will be made that there isn't enough money to implement some lines of code to remedy the issues plaguing this game.  In which case I reply if you honestly put up a kickstarter or gofundme to remedy these issues I know I will gladly commit to it and seeing as how no one is unique then that would mean there are many more just like there who would as well.

Amen.

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