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I have been noticing ever since the banning phase came out, that people tend to look at the top 2-3 players and ban their most played heroes. And i think this is a completely malicious design, if I like a hero, why can i not play it? Why does the enemy get to see my top played heroes and ban them? This doesn't make sense to me...

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Ranked Pick is intended to be a competitive mode for TMM, without going through the super long drafting process that Captain's Pick (the mode used for tournaments) does.

Because of the competitive nature/intention of the game, players can choose to ban heroes for counterpick reasons. It also exists as a soft gentleman's agreement to ban so-called "overpowered heroes" for a patch if enough players feel the same about those heroes.

It is positive for the game as it allows for hero and play diversity that differs from game to game. Note that other MOBA games (League of Legends, Heroes of the Storm, and Dota2) also have a healthy amount of bans in these game modes.

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Posted (edited)

I have no problem with the banning itself. My problem is that the enemy team can search my profile with a single click, check my most played heroes, and ban them accordingly.

Edited by YoUCan`THidE
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43 minutes ago, YoUCan`THidE said:

I have no problem with the banning itself. My problem is that the enemy team can search my profile with a single click, check my most played heroes, and ban them accordingly.

That's a fair point. The original intention is that the ban system is partially intended for this application. The other part was to counter-pick what your opponents pick, based on what your team wants/doesn't want.

League of Legends does not let you do this in Ranked queue because you can't see the usernames of your opponents, but you can check opponent stats during & prior to games in their mini-tournament series (Clash).

Heroes of the Storm: unsure, will get back to you once I get confirmation. However, I did stumble upon this (so it doesn't look like it's natively in the game, but you can use a tool to bypass their intention of hiding this info: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/movnpr/hots_stats_a_program_to_analyze_your_opponents/). Also, you can see the opponents' usernames, so if you have played against them recently and are matched against them, you may recall who they like playing.

Dota2 has the option of letting you hide your stats if you wish. However, it has been shown that you can bypass this if you really want to with say, Overwolf: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ooq5qf/dear_valve_please_make_opponents_anonymous_during/

 

==========

 

Either way, it's an interesting topic because on 1 hand, this is partially intended. On the other, I can see it can be frustrating, however you're also incentivized to learn more heroes & learn the game more, as opposed to being a 1-trick player or a player that is only good with very few heroes.

Personally, I don't think anything needs to be changed. HoN has been like this since forever & it's been part of the game. I have a feeling that players will not respond positively to this being removed if it ever gets removed. Even if it does get removed/hidden, I'm sure some players will go to unhealthy ends to make this information visible for themselves & give themselves an "unfair advantage".

Edited by ElementUser
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While i personally like playing with many heroes, I still have a favourite hero (that I played the most with). And i have friends that do like to be a "1-trick" player 🙂 Its kind of a personal preference I think that the 1-click statistic lookup can ruin.

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1 minute ago, YoUCan`THidE said:

While i personally like playing with many heroes, I still have a favourite hero (that I played the most with). And i have friends that do like to be a "1-trick" player 🙂 Its kind of a personal preference I think that the 1-click statistic lookup can ruin.

Sure, as I've said before though: HoN has a rather unique pool of players that go to certain ends to bypass any kind of obfuscation that HoN has for certain types of information. Even if we hid it, players will find a way to get the information one way or another.

Also, if it were to be hidden fully, you would have to hide player stats away too. And HoN is VERY well known for players wanting to show off their stats.

Edited by ElementUser
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If the most popular heroes were changed more often, then bans in their current form would always be ineffective.
Unfortunately, we have conservatives, which is always bad. Why have heroes who are 5 years old and have occupied leading positions in the list of the most popular heroes for all these 5 years have never been reworked?

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Conservatism in design is the death of the game. Moreover, the most popular heroes are copies of heroes from another game. The individuality of the game is more important than the habits.

1 hour ago, Mr`Cactus said:

If a hero is among the most picked it means that the players like its design (assuming it's not just an autowin broken hero), so I don't see a reason to rework them

 

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Dota heroes focus on make their heroes strong in both damage and support. Dota's carry focus on brutal strength and mobility while HoN's Heroes focus on their role. You cant build rhapsody/monarch as a damage dealer but in Dota, even pure supporter can deal a ton of damage if they have money.

That's why people like old heroes, especially Dota original because they feel like they can do everything and it's simple

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Well, in this case, this is a bad balance, since the group is outdated in design, gameplay and has never changed fundamentally for 5 years, and some heroes who changed radically 4-8 times in 2-3 years of life without taking into account minor changes (like + 4 attacks or 0.8 strength gain per level)
This means that there is a tendency for "favorite heroes" around whom the balance exists and it so happened that almost all of them are from Dota.
Heroes unique to Hon are simply not needed and only an addition to "the same old Dota that crazy old players miss", and those players who like unique heroes for Hon are discriminated against by balance! Despite the fact that a lot of heroes in DotA, which are also in Hon, have already received changes, thanks to which they can play different roles and have different gameplay. And we have a situation where a support was 5 years ago a support and now a support and nobody gets bored with it, because it is supposedly "everyone likes it".
So we get a situation where there are "good old heroes from DotA that everyone likes" and there are "cool supports from hon and a bunch of trash unique heroes of other positions that are taken when the old ones are taken." Despite the fact that it is worth improving the old hero and he gets an increase in winrate from 60% to 90% - no one is interested, but how the hero unique for the hone gets from 40% to 60% - the forum is filled with posts saying "what a strong imbalance (insert any hero not from Dota) please loosen it up, I don’t want to learn to play in new conditions "and nobody cares about it.

It just turns out that a hero from 40-80 places on the list in popularity with 46-52% winrate changes in order to prevent some ancient hero from getting a counterpick. In my opinion, this is not fair and does not keep the players. Not tired? When will everyone understand that it is the rework of the old heroes that can keep the players?

I propose, as an experiment, at least for a month to remove from the selection of heroes from the DotA - you will be surprised how fresh "HON" will seem.

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HoN heroes design is not bad but somehow it's boring because it straightforward.

For example:

Mornach: The heroes remain unchange for very long time after her W change and you cant do anything different with her. Her role is remain warding and protected your carry until the end and it get boring very fast after the few match.

Or klanx: The heroes is basiclly Power creep because all of you do is shooting and running around. You dont even need to use your Q to slow enemy. Just shoot em up

  • Thanks 1

HoN SEA Player

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I agree with you, a good example would be "Drunken Master", which is centered around ulti and at the same time took away a free null stone

Prisoner is also focused around one combination, each of his individual abilities is weaker than the previous one.

And these are just 2 examples, and there are too many of them. Many Dota heroes are therefore too good, albeit downright terrible in terms of balance and design.

 

 

5 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

HoN heroes design is not bad but somehow it's boring because it straightforward.

For example:

Mornach: The heroes remain unchange for very long time after her W change and you cant do anything different with her. Her role is remain warding and protected your carry until the end and it get boring very fast after the few match.

Or klanx: The heroes is basiclly Power creep because all of you do is shooting and running around. You dont even need to use your Q to slow enemy. Just shoot em up

from him. He has become too weak and unfortunately such abilities do not allow him to play otherwise.

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Now return to the topic.

I normal most playing King Klout, Golden Veil off laner. But after the hundred of match, now both of the heroes is banned  every games and i feel like a dumb. My Mmr is not actually high but the fact is I being too familar with those heroes and destroyed off lane so good that they ignore the rest of my team just to counter me. 

And that's why i only play HoN a few match every week to avoid people remember my name.

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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Druken Master is in good spot right now. But the Ultimate need to rescale again between his damage or his strength. He deal too much damage while a bit tanky and fast.

In my oponion,  DM should be focus on being tanky while dealing good damaged. Nerf his ultimate and buff his regenation may be a wise choice. If he want to go full damage, he need to sacrifice his survival. But the Problem is, In HoN, instant killing is always better choice.

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 10/3/2021 at 1:16 AM, ElementUser said:

That's a fair point. The original intention is that the ban system is partially intended for this application. The other part was to counter-pick what your opponents pick, based on what your team wants/doesn't want.

League of Legends does not let you do this in Ranked queue because you can't see the usernames of your opponents, but you can check opponent stats during & prior to games in their mini-tournament series (Clash).

Heroes of the Storm: unsure, will get back to you once I get confirmation. However, I did stumble upon this (so it doesn't look like it's natively in the game, but you can use a tool to bypass their intention of hiding this info: https://www.reddit.com/r/heroesofthestorm/comments/movnpr/hots_stats_a_program_to_analyze_your_opponents/  My Balance Now). Also, you can see the opponents' usernames, so if you have played against them recently and are matched against them, you may recall who they like playing.

Dota2 has the option of letting you hide your stats if you wish. However, it has been shown that you can bypass this if you really want to with say, Overwolf: https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/ooq5qf/dear_valve_please_make_opponents_anonymous_during/

 

==========

 

Either way, it's an interesting topic because on 1 hand, this is partially intended. On the other, I can see it can be frustrating, however you're also incentivized to learn more heroes & learn the game more, as opposed to being a 1-trick player or a player that is only good with very few heroes.

Personally, I don't think anything needs to be changed. HoN has been like this since forever & it's been part of the game. I have a feeling that players will not respond positively to this being removed if it ever gets removed. Even if it does get removed/hidden, I'm sure some players will go to unhealthy ends to make this information visible for themselves & give themselves an "unfair advantage".

Effective and interesting post for reading, Thanks for sharing.

Edited by Stockstill89
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