Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Caveat, this is a one-person effort by me, so the list is very vulnerable to my biases. I only see what happens in my own games, and it's also been a really long time since I played a MW tournament game.

Only ranking the above average heroes because for some reason the Tier List Maker website does not allow me to add more tiers. I'm sure it used to allow me to do this, so it must be a recent bug. Heroes are not sorted within tiers, although I've made an effort to put similar heroes together. 

BAGZjjT.png

Thoughts:

1. As long as Flux is supported with AoE ultimates, I think the hero is tier 0. Even something as simple as Flux + Hellbringer + 3 average heroes suffices to beat most lineups, (assuming equal skill + you play around the AoE ultimates). The only way to stand a chance is with multiple heroes from tier 1. Without support from AoE ultimates Flux is a lot weaker, around tier 4.

2. MoA and Klanx are the strongest ranged carries. Flint could be up there with them, or ranked similarly to Tarot; I have not seen the hero often enough to tell but leave him here as a nod to how often he's banned. I used to rank Tarot at roughly the same level, but she's consistently underperformed expectations of a god tier hero. I still think Tarot is slightly better than her peers in tier 2, but not by a lot.

3. Pearl, Rhapsody and Artesia are the best supports. Artesia is a bit unusual here, but her healing output is very strong, and the ability to suddenly switch to damage mode when healing isn't necessary is also powerful. Furthermore her ultimate cools down very quickly which means it's not really feasible to pick moments when her ultimate isn't available to force fights. There's a significant drop between these three and the next tier of supports. 

4. I don't think there's much to separate the big four nukers (Thunderbringer, Pyro, Ellonia and Torturer). Torturer clearly scales the worst, but he's also the strongest of the four in the early-game. Thunderbringer's ability to counterward in the late-game is very valuable, not that his late-game damage output is poor of course. Pyro can semi-carry, Ellonia's nukes slow. They're all really good heroes and picking any of them is strong. 

5. I think Vindi is slightly better than Defiler, but only slightly.

6. Obviously hook frontline is better than non-hook frontline. Gauntlet is the worst hook both because he tapers off the fastest, and also because his hook has the shortest range; in fact Gauntlet is so much worse I currently have him in tier 4. I think Devo is slightly better than Prisoner, but again only slightly. Most of the other frontliners in tier 2 are all almost as good as each other. Pebbles deserves a spot in tier 2 because once he has PK he's also one of the most reliable initiators who doesn't need to wait for cooldowns, as well. Gladiator is the only one that stands out as being slightly weaker than his peers. It's possible he should move down; he still however has strong strengths that make me keep him in tier 2.

7. In tier 3, Nymphora stands out as the only healer (aside from the big three) that can keep up with heavy harass. However, she tapers off quickly and her other skills aren't very good. It's nice to have a decent staff effect to boost teammates with in the late-game, but its use is really quite limited. Jera would probably be tier 2 if his ultimate cooled down faster; as it is he's already countered by Sand Scepter & Nullfire Blade. Chronos is here because he's a reliable initiator whenever he has ult; however he contributes little beyond that so if he moves tiers it's probably down. Circe is here because of how confusing it is to play against a well-played Circe. Empath is here because her staff effect is so good (effectively get two Staff effects for the price of one). Her ability to defend your carry against the likes of Spiked Bola and Sheepstick, while utilizing those items herself, is also a powerful advantage. 

8. Notably there's Plague Rider, Riftwalker, Myrmidon, Parallax and Qi all in tier 3 while Hellbringer is tier 2. This rating I am not completely sure about; however Hellbringer ulti is very strong (c.f. combo with Flux), better than Riftwalker/PR. He also has more AoE skills than Plague, scales better than Riftwalker, and is more reliable (he can nuke from range) than Parallax. Qi is the hero I am least sure about since I don't play him much; his ability to scale into a late-game autoattack carry seems strong but he doesn't contribute stuns or slows in the early-game and his ultimate is underwhelming.

9. Blacksmith deserves his own mention because of his uniqueness. The standard build with him seems to be to get Jade Spire and then fish for multicasts; if you get it then you can initiate. Blacksmith also scales well into the late-game with Staff. He is still very single-target, but he's outperformed often enough for me to put him here.

10. Finally there's the average tier, tier 4. One could argue for a lot of these heroes to move up or down, but if they move up they'd be on the weaker end of tier 3, and if they move down they'd be on the stronger end of tier 5. It is possible Predator should move up because his W in the early-game is effectively god mode, and he outcarries many other heroes in the late-game (his Staff effect is powerful as well). However he's still very single-target, and Spiked Bola / Geometer's Bane are soft counters. It's possible Hag should move up because having an innate blink makes her much more threatening against enemy ranged carries, but she's still got no stun and weak slow. Shellshock could potentially move up because of his harass ability, but if the enemy are able to deal with harass (i.e. they have Nymph/Rhaps/Pearl/Artesia) then he's pretty mediocre. Geomancer is slightly weaker than Magmus so if he moves tiers (and he's certainly already on the weak side of tier 4) it's probably down.

The best heroes not rated are probably Rally, Adrenaline (one could feasibly argue Adrenaline deserves to be tier 4), Night Hound (AoE silence is strong), Ravenor (great carry if you make it to very late-game, but takes too many items to be good), Riptide, Solstice (ult too hard to use), Sir Benzington, Revenant, Tundra, and Nitro.

Edited by Sorais
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Your list also are not full of heroes. Apex/Adrenaline/Golden/Xemplar Veil are missing. Tarot icon is also not upgrated

i'm fine as long i played the heroes i wanted. Not care much if hes strong or weak.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, w3wstarboy said:

Your list also are not full of heroes. Apex/Adrenaline/Golden/Xemplar Veil are missing. Tarot icon is also not upgrated

i'm fine as long i played the heroes i wanted. Not care much if hes strong or weak.

 

As I wrote in the second paragraph: "Only ranking the above average heroes because for some reason the Tier List Maker website does not allow me to add more tiers."

Apex/Adrenaline/Goldenveil/Xemplar etc are all below average. Tarot icon is the one that's available on Tier List Maker. If you want the newer icon feel free to update the tier list maker icons.

@Mr`Cactus thanks, will correct.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Sorais changed the title to 4.9.3.1 MW tier list
  • 2 months later...
6 hours ago, Corticarte said:

I would put this tier list at F-tier. 

Um, may I know your reason for that?

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, datfizh said:

Um, may I know your reason for that?

1. Tier 0 flux doesn't make sense. Flux has insane semi-carry potential. Midwars is a small map, the fact that he can move someone potentially 900 range makes the entire enemy team's positioning irrelevant since he can just pull them in. He doesn't need massive AOE teammates in order to excel. In addition, his nuke is extremely strong. He's top-tier regardless.

2. Armadon being Tier 2 is garbage. Armadon does nothing in the early game. A team that gets Nome's wisdom + bulwark (which is ALWAYS in 1700+ games) immediately cuts his AOE damage in half. I only see armadon doing good in low-tier <1600 games.   

3. Plague rider and Parallax being tier 3 sounds like someone hasn't played with them in high tier. Plague rider causes people to move away from each other, in a small map, it's easy to pull off a good ult. I've easily carried myself to 1700+ with just parallax alone. Each swipe of Q does 600 damage by end game and he's extremely hard to counter even with magic immunity. Demented Shaman is Tier 1, he will carry your team as a support with negative armor. 

4. Qi being Tier 3 is the worst placement ever. Qi is Tier 1 no matter what. It stops their carry from building damage items early. Free bola + superior magic damage ulti that does 2k damage on enemy carries? Yes please, extremely hard to counter. One ulti from Qi more often than not kills any of the normal carry picks including Sapphire with shield on. Myrmidon also being in Tier 3 tells me that this guy has never seen a good myrmidon (2 stuns + an escape). 

5. Shellshock is Tier 1, always banned or picked in 17/1800+ games, don't even ask. Warchief is Tier 2, i've rarely lost in some of my other accounts below 1700 with Warchief even when I'm dicking around.  Predator is at least tier 2. He may or may not be strong, but his magic immunity alone makes him extremely annoying to counter. The entire enemy team has to buy bolas just to keep him controlled. As long as there is another carry along with Predator, you're sure to win if you're not total lacking intelligence.

6. Pharoah is almost always picked in 1700+ games.

I can nitpick this list a lot more. There's not many low-tier heroes IMO, there are many middle tier and maybe two handfuls of trash tier heroes (armadon being the top trash)

Edited by Corticarte
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 2 weeks later...
On 11/2/2021 at 4:59 AM, Corticarte said:

1. Tier 0 flux doesn't make sense. Flux has insane semi-carry potential. Midwars is a small map, the fact that he can move someone potentially 900 range makes the entire enemy team's positioning irrelevant since he can just pull them in. He doesn't need massive AOE teammates in order to excel. In addition, his nuke is extremely strong. He's top-tier regardless.

2. Armadon being Tier 2 is garbage. Armadon does nothing in the early game. A team that gets Nome's wisdom + bulwark (which is ALWAYS in 1700+ games) immediately cuts his AOE damage in half. I only see armadon doing good in low-tier <1600 games.   

3. Plague rider and Parallax being tier 3 sounds like someone hasn't played with them in high tier. Plague rider causes people to move away from each other, in a small map, it's easy to pull off a good ult. I've easily carried myself to 1700+ with just parallax alone. Each swipe of Q does 600 damage by end game and he's extremely hard to counter even with magic immunity. Demented Shaman is Tier 1, he will carry your team as a support with negative armor. 

4. Qi being Tier 3 is the worst placement ever. Qi is Tier 1 no matter what. It stops their carry from building damage items early. Free bola + superior magic damage ulti that does 2k damage on enemy carries? Yes please, extremely hard to counter. One ulti from Qi more often than not kills any of the normal carry picks including Sapphire with shield on. Myrmidon also being in Tier 3 tells me that this guy has never seen a good myrmidon (2 stuns + an escape). 

5. Shellshock is Tier 1, always banned or picked in 17/1800+ games, don't even ask. Warchief is Tier 2, i've rarely lost in some of my other accounts below 1700 with Warchief even when I'm dicking around.  Predator is at least tier 2. He may or may not be strong, but his magic immunity alone makes him extremely annoying to counter. The entire enemy team has to buy bolas just to keep him controlled. As long as there is another carry along with Predator, you're sure to win if you're not total lacking intelligence.

6. Pharoah is almost always picked in 1700+ games.

I can nitpick this list a lot more. There's not many low-tier heroes IMO, there are many middle tier and maybe two handfuls of trash tier heroes (armadon being the top trash)

Here's a more detailed response to your post:

- Flux does not have "insane semi-carry potential". Lots of heroes outscale him. Think about it - what does he actually have that lets him carry, his W? That's not even comparable to the likes of Aluna's Q and E. He does need massive AoE teammates to excel because if your entire team is single-target heroes like Arachna and Predator, you can't capitalize on opponents being all clumped up. Finally his nuke is not especially strong, especially without his ultimate. (Please don't tell me you would really rather have his nuke than, e.g., Torturer E.) 
- Armadon is indeed not very strong early-game, but he is still useful, and he scales very well late-game. 2-3 items in, he gets obnoxious if you lack the physical DPS to kill him quickly, or Spellsunder to stop his health regen. Nomes is not commonly picked up at high tier, it's rather pricey for the effect, and if it is picked up it's to provide magic armor aura. Ring of the Teacher is more commonly picked up and so is Plated Greaves, but even with both of those items it does not cut Armadon's damage output in half. Try doing the math - what must your current armor be if +2 armor is worth 50% damage reduction? Armadon is one of the stronger frontliners around, and on par with his peers in the tier (Bramble/Deadlift/Balphagore). I have seen him often enough to be quite confident in his placing.
- Plague Rider is not a bad hero, but his ultimate is the only real standout thing about him. Do remember that there are a lot of powerful ultimates around. In the OP I compared Plague Rider to heroes like Hellbringer, who also has a standout ultimate. Do you claim Plague Rider is much better than Hellbringer?
- Parallax is also not a bad hero, but he has limitations. First he does not do 600 damage with his Q (where did you get that idea? It requires 6000 max mana), and secondly while he can do a lot of burst, it's largely to one hero (unless multiple heroes are bunched up, of course). Once the burst is done then he can't carry anymore, and he'll be vulnerably exposed. In that sense he is similar to Pyromancer, who can also kill one target and then loses to other late-game scaling heroes. That said he is a good hero, which is why he is in tier 3.
- DS's major problem compared to the big three supports (Pearl/Rhapsody/Artesia) is that he is not nearly as good as they are at keeping your team alive, which is the major role of supports. He is more offensive than Pearl, but not Artesia whose damage output is very respectable, and arguably not even Rhapsody in the early-game since it's not easy to get damage from his heal. He is still a good hero, he's just not as good as his competitors.
- I don't know what makes you think Qi stops enemy carries from getting their items. They are of course going to get items anyway because not buying items to "play around" Qi is a recipe for losing. Disarm is not nearly as good as a disable since they can always run away, and I don't see how you are getting 2k damage against enemy carries as well from his ultimate. I just tried it with Grimore + Spellshards 3 on a Tarot with Symbol + Steamboots + Wingbow + Geometer's + Savage Mace and it did 1600 damage against Tarot without Shrunken active. Again Qi is not a bad hero, he's just not as good as his competitors.
- Shellshock has generally been unimpressive. Harass ability is good against no heal, I guess. If opponents do have heal then he usually underperforms - his skills just aren't that high impact and his charge is very telegraphed.
- Same goes for Warchief, his skills just aren't that high impact. Maybe you seldom lose with him, in which case I propose that you're not playing against good players with good heroes, because those heroes will out-nuke you and out-carry you.
- For Predator, magic immunity in the early-game is effectively god mode, as mentioned in the OP. However, he has trouble doing the damage to make full use of that immunity. It is often possible (until late-game) that you can kite the Predator and kill his teammates. This is in contrast to Armadon, whose skillset is built to prevent such kiting. Bola also counters Predator quite substantially. He scales very well though. By the way you probably shouldn't get multiple Bolas against Predator because of the cooldown on how often you can Bola a hero.
- Finally Pharaoh is decent harass and the best initiator in the game, but he's got the serious problem of doing no damage + being fully countered by Tablet. He is also not likely to catch more than one hero. The only way Pharaoh can actually do damage on his own is with Puzzlebox, which has a long cooldown and is still not high burst. He does have strengths, as mentioned he is the best initiator in the game, but his weaknesses are very glaring. Hence he is only about average.

PS, If you think Armadon is top trash you are welcome to pick Keeper of the Forest or Parasite against me playing Armadon.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 11/3/2021 at 8:48 AM, robinxDDD said:

Honestly i never seen someone pick pharaon in 2k games

I do occasionally, against an Artillery. I can kill Art pretty easily with staff + hellflower. Even late game he's almost taken out solely with staff, hellflower and puzzlebox.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Only works on uncoordinated teams and/or Artillery players who itemize poorly. Good players defend their carry, and Pharaoh is pretty squishy (outside of his primary attribute he has no innate tankiness). Artilleries that get Geo, or even worse Tablet (costs less than 2k gold) are very hard to solo kill with Pharaoh, maybe even impossible.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...