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So, I've been pseudo-trying to lose some rank. Here's why I wouldn't be able to stop even if I wanted to:


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Summary of my last 10 games: Small as well as big things, just to show a slight insight into what the dev team is failing to address: 

Game 1 - Normal 5v5 game but our mid got killed three times in a row and leaves the game. Rest of the team gives up for no reason. Clearly this is a healthy way to play a 4v5 and should not be punished what so ever. Right... If it's 3v5 people are free to leave, but if it's 4v5 people are free to mentally step the ***k out. No punishment what so ever. 

Game 2 - Some party pooper decided that playing normally wasn't enough, so he picked devo, was level 7 until idek... 20 min? And he kept going to the sidelanes and using his decay until he was 5% hp. Funnily enough the enemies decided to not gank him, but nontheless he was actively trying to ruin the game, which is... fun? And should not be punished what so ever. And like I wouldn't even know what to report him for... He participated in the game after 30 min (and sporadically while level 1-7) but he actively tried to die, idk... Clearly fair tho.

Game 3 - fine i guess

Game 4 (with GM) - some moron on our team kept calling me retard etc, just like who wants to play when being called names? Idk, the GM I guess... I asked him to report the player - Guess what guys... he didn't get banned (nor was he innocent) ;-)) Fun and clearly fair, right? GM power to not give a rat ass. (I do wanna give a shout out to the amazing Senior Game Master team though, they have been doing great for some time!) 

Game 5 - fine, what ever... cant fault people for being bad

Game 6 - Same as 5 

Game 7 - Just like... when you have a premade short farm lane with no impact for 30 minutes and a long lane guy who, first of all let me solo the entire lane, not sure where he was LOL... and then secondly dies 17 fucking times in 30 minutes... How on earth... Clearly he is "just bad" by going to our long lane, alone, to farm for 30 minutes. Clearly just bad not like... mentally out of here or maliciously rapping our butts... nah nah 

Game 8 - oh look, no one called mid so I went there and we won, wuuuuuuuuut. Also, I was able to at least 10 times snipe one of their players, who like Game 7, kept going to the long lane, alone, to farm... All game. Like... How is this a non-bannable offense? no one is SO bad that they don't see the writing on the wall in 10 deaths. COME ON FROSTBURN. GET REAL. Right????

Game 9 - Apparently someone couldn't handle that I bought a hatchet on Myrmidon, so they felt like flaming me for the ENTIRE game. Several people just following me around the woods and the lanes with their AoE spells when I am trying to farm my staff... They ended up not doing a whole lot with that farm, "but their behavior that game is nice, fair and should never, ever be punished what so ever. " - frostburn 1999-2021 ??? 

Game 10 - idk just 4v5 and several people giving up mentally. I get it, I get that it's difficult to see a game through when you are at a disadvantage... but did you queue up to not play? I am so unsure sometimes. :S 

Can we get something done soon? I literally could not have won a SINGLE of the 9 losses even if I tried. Maybe 5 and 6 could have been won with more team effort, but some people are just not aware of how farming works. They run between lanes (no tps just walking there) and then they either get spotted by a ward and dies or does one wave (with no tp), goes back to the base (full hp and full mana) to buy a tp and teleport to another lane. Which is fine, but also not a thing that should happen with people who are almost 1700 players and have played for a long time. I don't know if they are mostly alt tabbed or joined to not play, but like... 

- How do we enforce people who join to not play the game? Mentally checking the fuc* out after their first deaths? 

- How do we deal with people, who think flaming is a deez thing to do. Because of the rules of conduct, it's too easy to circumvene. Like I can say a lot of really annoying things, just literally "wp noob" each time he dies. Then I can listen to "reported reported reported", shrug and eat my lunch. You have NO idea how much you f**k up your own game by allowing people to do the things I mentioned. All of them. Feeding on purpose, being abusive in chat and leaving. 

Imagine being a new player and playing two games: 

First, you get called a noob 411 times in a single game by 3 of your team mates. They say "You will get banned idiot" etc. Just imagine w... also don't imagine, because that's how it is! :-))()()()()()

Second game someone on your team leaves after feeding their mid pebbles and now, as a new player, every time you step ANYWHERE you get rekt. They don't play another game, you know that right???? They might not even want to join after either of those games if it were the first. 

Get your fucking shit together or watch the entire playerbase leave for dota or any of the ccg's that are popping up in popularity. You can't even show us how many are online at a given time because it's embarassing at this point right? Why do you think that. 

Side note: Why do you think changing the map has any effect what so ever? People who aren't playing HoN don't give a flying rooster about whether or not your map has been changes, are you kidding?

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So 30% of your games were completely fine. Sounds fine to me if you're playing in lower ranked games.
If you ever played lower ranked games, you should have noticed that people are just bad there or are just there because they are flaming the entire game or doing strange things like that devo.
It's not something you really want in your games, but that's why there is ranks: If you're decent, you get into ranges where more and more people play decent and your rate of good games should increase. But you simply can't kick 80% of hons player base because they are bad/stupid. And this is not limited to HoN - it's probably a close reflection of the entire humanity, just that people shut up when they meet in person while they let it all out online.
I was kinda hoping you have a suggestion after those games, but sadly I don't see one, so Idk what to answer you, looks like you have to deal with it like we all do - or don't. Your choice I guess.

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Don't look too much into my sad as fuck post, as I'm probably just an overly dramatic Negative Nancy at this point.

3 hours ago, Manu311 said:

So 30% of your games were completely fine. Sounds fine to me if you're playing in lower ranked games.

Not claiming to have a solution either, but only 30% of games being "completely fine" shouldn't be brushed off when it comes to anyone, playing at any rank, in any game. I know it's tough for the developers to do anything about this, as it's mostly an issue with the community, but nobody should play a game where they're expected to generally have a bad time. Even if the problem lies with the individual in these cases, I see too many people sharing the same negative experience.

These numbers will obviously not be true to everyone, but the fact that we've gotten used to settle with a large amount of miserable games and just "deal with it" is just sad. Not pointing fingers at you specifically here, as I'm sure many of us have realized that this is how it is.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, as I personally haven't played in a while. I guess I lurk around here hoping to see some positivity to set the spark for my return, but I mostly see others sharing the same negative shit that made me quit.

Take care out there and try doing what makes you and the people around you happy.

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46 minutes ago, TobakaZ said:

.... but only 30% of games being "completely fine" shouldn't be brushed off when it comes to anyone, playing at any rank, in any game. I know it's tough for the developers to do anything about this, as it's mostly an issue with the community, but nobody should play a game where they're expected to generally have a bad time. Even if the problem lies with the individual in these cases, I see too many people sharing the same negative experience.

As I said, it's not specific to HoN.
Even in games you have a choice who you play with, I tend to just play solo if it's possible at all. I remember Guild Wars (1), where I was one of the few people who completed the game with every class without ever grouping with anyone and just playing with NPCs. Not that I haven't tried to play with people, but almost everyone was so stupid, that Npcs were nicer to play with. (eventually I joined a clan with a few RL-friends, but I already had completed the game by then)
I feel like HoN is actually better in this regards. 30% would have been nice back then.
There's a reason there are clans, guilds and whatnot in most games: If you play with "unknown" players, you will always suffer.

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On 8/2/2021 at 6:48 PM, Manu311 said:

So 30% of your games were completely fine. Sounds fine to me if you're playing in lower ranked games.
If you ever played lower ranked games, you should have noticed that people are just bad there or are just there because they are flaming the entire game or doing strange things like that devo.
It's not something you really want in your games, but that's why there is ranks: If you're decent, you get into ranges where more and more people play decent and your rate of good games should increase. But you simply can't kick 80% of hons player base because they are bad/stupid. And this is not limited to HoN - it's probably a close reflection of the entire humanity, just that people shut up when they meet in person while they let it all out online.
I was kinda hoping you have a suggestion after those games, but sadly I don't see one, so Idk what to answer you, looks like you have to deal with it like we all do - or don't. Your choice I guess.

I don't disagree with you, but as Tobakaz also mentioned 30% of my games being fine isn't like... stellar by any means. It's hard to do something about it, but if 200 people complain about the same thing something kinda has to be done right? 

I mentioned this a million times before... there are 1.000 ways to cheat the system. A thousand ways to circumvene "griefing" by just purposely fucking up. The Myrmidon game i mentioned, that was one way. They can't ban me for getting a hatchet, leveling attributes and doing very little to play. Since I am technically not breaking any rules. This applies to a lot of the games I mentioned. 

And that's not even mentioning the classic:

"player 1: mid"
"player 2: farm"
"player 3: mid"
"player 3: woods"

well shit

A literal hard nerf to heroes like Solstice and Legionnaire would fix SO many problems in this game. So many games start out with trash talk because someone picks woods. (This happened when I played 1750-1800 MMR as well). People dislike losing the lane where the enemy carry is. There are players out there who can successfully jungle and shut down their carry before it's too late, but sometimes it's pointless... 

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2 hours ago, Mr`Cactus said:

If you nerf solstice and legio like you said, people will just start picking zephyr woods and other stuff. You won't stop people from going woods unless you literally remove woods 😂

People need to pick zephyr more. They’ll realize how useless legio and solstice are 

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18 hours ago, Mr`Cactus said:

If you nerf solstice and legio like you said, people will just start picking zephyr woods and other stuff. You won't stop people from going woods unless you literally remove woods 😂

Sure... but Solstice and Legio are popular. Zephyr aren't.

 

And like anyway... Where do we draw the line between bad and bad on purpose? 

Say someone goes and dies 5 times with b2b teleports in the SAME spot. He's bad, sure, but... The game is ruined at that point. How is it allowed? I don't even care if I'm the one getting kills or if it's the opponents... the game is ruined...

 

18 hours ago, Mr`Cactus said:

If you nerf solstice and legio like you said, people will just start picking zephyr woods and other stuff. You won't stop people from going woods unless you literally remove woods 😂

The problem is that people are really comfortable with Legio and Sols because they are easy (Sols albeit a BIT more difficult if you don't understand shapes). Zephyr is way riskier to play in the earlier levels. Ophelia is skill intensive, Parasite is usually banned but is also kinda unhealthy but falls off REALLY fast if you can't farm fast enough.
War Beast is like... I don't know, really skill intensive as well and if you can't get high enough GPM and don't get Whispering Helm he falls off so fast as well. 
Keeper and Tempest are really good but requires a LOT of skill in the form of micro management, map awareness and you also require your team mates to be good/farmed... 

The problem is that if you get a fast pk on legio he will snowball... so you don't even need a team. Pick off their carry or their Pyrombadier mid hero before every fight and your carry suddenly doesn't need a mouse or a keyboard to play the game. Sols needs the passive nerfed in general but what ever. 

Risk < Reward on Legio and Sols = safe not so good player instantly calling woods and grabbing one of those. And no one is invested enough to ward or gank the legionnaire. And even if, even flipping if, I pick Night Hound, gank him thrice... then like what? If I'm lucky he gets his pk delayed by a few minutes. For god's sake the hero can do ancients at lvl 9 if his dick is hard enough

But is frosty doing ANYTHING to balance this? nah, you have a handful of unplayable games due to you guys making a lot of "safe" heroes. 

"Why did NH's mom cry" "she lost him at 6" Can we get this shit back? Night Hound is just a safe pick and if you have a brain you can dodge the rev wards any day of the week, because WHERE ELSE WOULD YOU PLACE THEM THAN RIGHT THERE:_)))) 

Please ffs... 

BUT SUPPORT, BRO, If legio is so OP why u dont just pick him every game and win games.... good idea really I just really don't wanna listen to "afk farm noob" "reported" "                       " and shit like that when I am trying to farm relevant items. I'd rather get a hatchet on Myrmidon and jerk off silently as I watch my carry miss last hits 

jeezez fuck. 
And btw, THIS is coming AFTER a game win. 
Dota is PAINFUL to view and play. The delay... ooooooh god. 
League of Legends I NEVER tried, but it looks like an 8 bit version of Dota... 
HoN just has the best graphics and Ophelia. That's why I'm playing it. It doesn't mean the game isn't bad. But like... I guess if we don't have the money to do anythi... wait what? I am now being told thru this $5 headset that we don't need money to remove toxic players from the game... but yeah I guess toxic players are  GOOD FOR MY HEART, CHEAPER THAN CUPCAKES AND IT'S A GREAT WAY TO STAY IN SHAPE. 

 

 

On 8/2/2021 at 11:08 PM, TobakaZ said:

Don't look too much into my sad as fuck post, as I'm probably just an overly dramatic Negative Nancy at this point.

Not claiming to have a solution either, but only 30% of games being "completely fine" shouldn't be brushed off when it comes to anyone, playing at any rank, in any game. I know it's tough for the developers to do anything about this, as it's mostly an issue with the community, but nobody should play a game where they're expected to generally have a bad time. Even if the problem lies with the individual in these cases, I see too many people sharing the same negative experience.

These numbers will obviously not be true to everyone, but the fact that we've gotten used to settle with a large amount of miserable games and just "deal with it" is just sad. Not pointing fingers at you specifically here, as I'm sure many of us have realized that this is how it is.

I'm not even sure where I'm going with this, as I personally haven't played in a while. I guess I lurk around here hoping to see some positivity to set the spark for my return, but I mostly see others sharing the same negative shit that made me quit.

Take care out there and try doing what makes you and the people around you happy.

Great insight 🙂 Love the latest videos, by the way. Your editing is getting really, really strong. 

Would love more funny plays/fails. That was always my favorite part about the old JuanGabo videos; when you guys messed up bad! 😂 Thanks for the content!

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If you are (or believe you are) better than most of your teammates why don't you step up and call a core role.

My experience on low accs: 70% of the games are winnable if you are better than the usual player in that rating. 30% are straight up grief/dc/whatever, not winnable not to worry about since there are 7 out of 10 games that you can win if you try hard.

tl;dr: focus more on your playing than on your teammates. Focus on the games you actually can win and forget/havefun/leave the games you obviously can't.

 

regards

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6 hours ago, Froschbein said:

If you are (or believe you are) better than most of your teammates why don't you step up and call a core role.

My experience on low accs: 70% of the games are winnable if you are better than the usual player in that rating. 30% are straight up grief/dc/whatever, not winnable not to worry about since there are 7 out of 10 games that you can win if you try hard.

tl;dr: focus more on your playing than on your teammates. Focus on the games you actually can win and forget/havefun/leave the games you obviously can't.

 

regards

After I made the post I did that, and i did end up winning 8/10. But I can't always call core roles and if I say "nah fu kid im mid" game is over...

 

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1 hour ago, `_support said:

After I made the post I did that, and i did end up winning 8/10. But I can't always call core roles and if I say "nah fu kid im mid" game is over...

Try to play around all the issues that you see arising. Try to make the game easier for you, if your goal is to win.

Wait before picking if you can, to select an appropriate counter hero to the enemy composition. If you see an angry person, try not to interact with them, however - be careful with ignoring them, as they provide, even if once, information essential for your victory.

If you have a feeling it's going to be a good game, try to play more in a team oriented way - picking a hero that complements your allies or compensates their drawbacks.

If you have a feeling it's going to be a grief game, try to rely on yourself in order to progress your victory. Call a lane with the least resistance - if mid is contested heavily, try jungle - some jungle heroes are able to carry games, while others can give a considerable advantage that will provide victory even if the team has heavy internal quarrels amongst them.

Even if jungle, mid and short farm is taken - and it is a grief game - there are still even then methods to secure a victory. Circe, Qi, Sui Deadwood - high impact / low upkeep heroes that can provide immense offensive capabilities to your team. Sui Scout, Sui NH - farm dependant secondary carries that if given enough game time can carry the game (in lower bracket games it's common for enemies to not apply enough pressure, which makes this strategy viable for consecutive victories. The higher you go in MMR, the less likely you are to have abundant farm as a sui laner, therefore it is better to pick - so I call - "one cheap trick" heroes in that specific lane, to compensate potential lack of farm.)

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Yaaaasss calling jungle, someone instantly leaves, no remake, I pwn the entire fucking table with my sick Ophelia skins but for some reason our mid decided "hey 3v5 is more fun for you guys right" and "imA kRaK3n nOOO pk" so yeah... but I guess all these things happen to JUST me :-3

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27 minutes ago, &#x60;_support said:

Yaaaasss calling jungle, someone instantly leaves, no remake, I pwn the entire fucking table with my sick Ophelia skins but for some reason our mid decided "hey 3v5 is more fun for you guys right" and "imA kRaK3n nOOO pk" so yeah... but I guess all these things happen to JUST me :-3

The world isn't a kind place, try to be the exception. I know it's hard, but don't stop trying

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49 minutes ago, Lunarios said:

The world isn't a kind place, try to be the exception. I know it's hard, but don't stop trying

Right, I play mostly team oriented heroes if I'm not mid. But like... I just seem to have the worst luck? what is described in this thread can't be the norm... 

Btw, congrats on getting to 1800 (if you made it, saw like 179X on you I think?) 🙂 Remember when I played with you at 1720 ish back when new Adrenaline came out. 🙂

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37 minutes ago, &#x60;_support said:

Right, I play mostly team oriented heroes if I'm not mid. But like... I just seem to have the worst luck? what is described in this thread can't be the norm... 

Btw, congrats on getting to 1800 (if you made it, saw like 179X on you I think?) 🙂 Remember when I played with you at 1720 ish back when new Adrenaline came out. 🙂

Thanks, I'm back now to 1820ish after being for a while at 1900+

I can guarantee it's not only you having bad luck, everyone have bad luck, at all ranks and at all games, not just in HoN

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1 minute ago, Lunarios said:

Thanks, I'm back now to 1820ish after being for a while at 1900+

I can guarantee it's not only you having bad luck, everyone have bad luck, at all ranks and at all games, not just in HoN

Wow, that's great, didn't know you got that high! 

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I'm sure, we all have bad streaks. I remember, I think the infamous season 1, I had about a similar win streak. It felt terrible due to the win streak thing back then haha

I played a lot in the big leagues. With josmoh etc. Honestly I played really well, but idk, I started playing less due to more work, and got below diamond again, after that it's been a struggle hahaha literally

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1 minute ago, &#x60;_support said:

I'm sure, we all have bad streaks. I remember, I think the infamous season 1, I had about a similar win streak. It felt terrible due to the win streak thing back then haha

I played a lot in the big leagues. With josmoh etc. Honestly I played really well, but idk, I started playing less due to more work, and got below diamond again, after that it's been a struggle hahaha literally

I think it would be of great benefit then if you picked less micro intensive heroes and more macro oriented heroes, since if you work a lot and don't have time to play much it can lower your micro reflex potential, but you can make it up with game knowledge intelligence and strong heroes. If you were there once there's no reason for you to not be there again, I think it's just about accommodating your playstyle to your life routine.

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I feel like a lot of the times losing games is due to the MMR system in this game. To get through in solo queue in this game to higher ranks you literally need to play carry and carry your team every game. This is because once you keep climbing in rank past gold and reach diamond your team composition is basically you (The diamond) and paired with a bunch of gold 2-3/silver players versus gold 1 players. 

 

The MMR system puts so much emphasis on balancing with MMR that it thinks that putting 1 really good player compensates for the MMR disparity and pairs them with 4 lower ranked players. This obviously makes no sense at all since anyone would rather have a much more balanced composition, but at least the gain/loss of MMR is reflected in this matchup (You gain lots if you win and lose not much if you lose). I suspect it's also probably because there's not enough diamond players to support a much more balanced team composition. Still, very depressing and probably not much Frostburn can do about this which has put me off of playing FOC for the most part  and instead I play Mid Wars.

 

 

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The most annoying thing i see as a solo q in my games is low mmr players queuing together being arrogant and thinking they know better than you and try to dictate how you, who are 150 or so mmr higher than them, should play and follow their calls, whether its diving their jungle with 0 vision or forcing a 3vs5 teamfight and they get mad when you decide not to die alongside them and start trolling or throwing the game harder than they already had with their bad calls.

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