Jump to content

Recommended Posts

6 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Hang on, weren't there like 2 people in this thread who were complaining that Ichor's R doesn't heal a lot? And one of them mentioned that it heals for barely more than Nymphora's Q? Hmm.........

My point stands, ichor has always been able to tank when attacked by multiple debuffs, and now his ulti got some healing on it, so i dont see why is this relevant to anything i said before ūü§∑‚Äć‚ôāÔłŹ.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 73
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Will be fixed for next patch (this is only happening for Simple Tooltips). I still suggest using Detailed Tooltips as they are mostly the same these days.

omg TB imba kill CD one procast lol need nerf!11!

Honestly, I'm fine with him not being put in a similar defensive role as the other supports. I would love to see his ability back to transfer stuns etc. I always saw him more in an offensive support r

13 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

The tradeoff for E is fine. If you transfer debuffs to enemies, you're losing the reduction from E.

What I'll likely do next patch (whenever that is) is just remove the base damage reduction from E (among a few other minor tweaks).

So is there currently any way to counter his synergy? Do sandscepter or dreamcatcher have any effect on him or he can transfer all of that to his enemies?

If not then only shrunken head is the way to go.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Salforis R should still be transferable.. Ichor has that niche and he is a valid counterpick to salforis. If you want to play salf, you should ban ichor or pick him last.

 

I agree on dreamcatcher tho. As the item is meant to decrease healing abilities, the state shouldn't be transferable by ichor as its one of the few counters against him at this point. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ichor's main role is a tanky healer now with the debuff defensive or offensive play as a niche. It could go either way, though I think countering healing has priority here. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Right now Ichor is a hard counter to many heroes, including those intelligence with burst damage. The only way I see for a hero to solo kill Ichor despite having at least 300 gpm difference is to go physical. Like if i'm a hag, I would need at least 500 gpm + the right physical damage build to be able to kill a 200 gpm Ichor solo, as he is able to counter all of my spells.

Link to post
Share on other sites

So far, everything seems good, only that when you play more than 10 games (as said in the hon 11th page) doesn't show if you got the reward or not. 

And the obvious CoN season which is not that important.

Basically everything good ūüėĄ

Link to post
Share on other sites

For Ichor 

- if you nerf Transfusion  - Damage transfer from the ally unit reduced from 30/40/50/60% to 20%. it should be buff

Saint's Blood with no depend on Ultimate skill but on self (with Ichoric Blood for 10/15/20 change to 5/10/15/20 or more) within same radius but change autoattacks and non-ultimate abilities to enemy heroes to any enemy unit include neutral creep.(because this supporter not high attack speed,if player want to make high aspd its Create a different style of play and risky)

this make ichor better and Make a difference with other heroes as you want.

 

Hope you agree with¬†and see on next patch.ūüėĀ

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, DarkRobot said:

For Ichor 

- if you nerf Transfusion  - Damage transfer from the ally unit reduced from 30/40/50/60% to 20%. it should be buff

Saint's Blood with no depend on Ultimate skill but on self (with Ichoric Blood for 10/15/20 change to 5/10/15/20 or more) within same radius but change autoattacks and non-ultimate abilities to enemy heroes to any enemy unit include neutral creep.(because this supporter not high attack speed,if player want to make high aspd its Create a different style of play and risky)

this make ichor better and Make a difference with other heroes as you want.

 

Hope you agree with¬†and see on next patch.ūüėĀ

Hope you could spend some time reading the discussion in this thread to find the answer whether your request is accepted or not for the next patch.

  • Sad 1

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/2/2021 at 6:08 AM, ElementUser said:

Hang on, weren't there like 2 people in this thread who were complaining that Ichor's R doesn't heal a lot? And one of them mentioned that it heals for barely more than Nymphora's Q? Hmm.........

@fid1  @GiveUpBra

 

====

 

A bit more on-topic:

Ichor was actually slightly tankier in the past from E alone (60% max Damage Reduction compared to 50% -- contrary to what the tooltips said in the past, the max was actually 60%), he just got more sustained healing that also applies to himself, and even moreso if he dives into a group of enemies.

I personally think the healing numbers are fine on R. Perhaps the E Damage reduction will be adjusted slightly, however he's also gotten a lot more exposure this patch as well. Time will tell.

For Lord Salforis' R: maybe.

 

This statement is wrong though:

 

You can go ahead and try to say that to any channeling ultimate, or any ultimate that applies a debuff. It simply doesn't apply to those abilities because those are "easily countered" with a stun/silence (for channels) or a purge (for debuffs).

 

The bottom line is that I'm generally happy we finally get a consistently tanky support hero. We really need one of those because traditional supports simply die too fast. Adjustments may come if needed.

Yeah his heal still sucks; the math don't lie. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, fid1 said:

Yeah his heal still sucks; the math don't lie. 

You can talk to @Acnowlogiaabout that one. I'm more convinced by his replay rather than your words ūüôā.

Also @fid1: have you considered that you're not getting 2-3 enemy heroes hit with your ultimate and only have 1 of them being hit? And do you use Q as a nuke/slow, or for its healing instead (in teamfights)? Do you autoattack the target that is marked by Q? Do you pick up Sacrificial Stone?

 

Believe it or not, even a 5 to 10 HP heal per second means a lot more in practice than on paper.

Edited by ElementUser
Link to post
Share on other sites
23 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

You can talk to @Acnowlogiaabout that one. I'm more convinced by his replay rather than your words ūüôā.

Also @fid1: have you considered that you're not getting 2-3 enemy heroes hit with your ultimate and only have 1 of them being hit? And do you use Q as a nuke/slow, or for its healing instead (in teamfights)? Do you autoattack the target that is marked by Q? Do you pick up Sacrificial Stone?

 

Believe it or not, even a 5 to 10 HP heal per second means a lot more in practice than on paper.

NVM I changed my mind yeah the heal is good I tested in practice a while ago and I got a low amount of healing but I just checked now again and it's much higher for some reason so maybe I was testing it wrong. 

 

 That replay had that Ichor had a gpm of around 250-300 the whole game so I don't get why bother with the scaling part since he needs items to scale and he sucks at farming. Why not make it a static heal amount? Would make it more balanced throughout the whole game instead of making it stronger late game since the nerf on his W certainly nerfed his early game.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, datfizh said:

Hope you could spend some time reading the discussion in this thread to find the answer whether your request is accepted or not for the next patch.

It's just a suggestion and opinion and yes I read it.
 

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, DarkRobot said:

It's just a suggestion and opinion and yes I read it.
 

I guess you've already known 'the answer'.

I know you just suggested your idea and I 'give' the response to your idea.

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/2/2021 at 4:35 PM, Acnowlogia said:

Mana for TB is not a big problem early game as he can sustain enough mana for enough damage to farm and outharrass his opponent (e.g. by buying mana potions and chalice; box out his opponent to pressure for runes). Mid- and late- game, it is not even a problem anymore.

It is true that TB can be as easily ganked as any other intelligence heroes. But my argument was mainly on the fact that he excels in 1v1 situation. In higher bracket games, it is not always easy to gank someone without accepting a risk of a trade-off like leaving your lane insecured. Also, if both sides are equally frequently ganked, then on average, TB would still come out on top because he can outperform his opponent.

There are of course specific strategies to keep TB in check, at the expense of putting more resources. Must we always resort to this strategy to deal with the hero?

Btw, I just found this statistics, 4th most picked hero with 62% winrate

spacer.png

 

@ElementUser

So back on my post on TB, since I have not seen any further discussion on him, I will continue with the analysis.

Over the last couple days I have always ban TB in all game, and in a few games that I did not ban him, the hero is 100% guaranteed to be picked up.

Let's now turn the discussion on the changes:

Thunderbringer
- Attack action time reduced from 0.5 seconds to 0.4 seconds.

Attack action time can be trivial, as TB barely use his attacks anyway.

Chain Lightning
- Cooldown reduced from 2 seconds to 1.5 seconds.

Huge buff, see below.

Blast of Lightning
- Cast Range increased from 700 to 725/750/775/800.
- Magic Damage increased from 100/175/250/325 to 125/200/275/350.
- Stun duration increased from 0.1 seconds to 0.1/0.2/0.3/0.4 seconds.
- Clearvision and True Sight duration increased from 4.5 seconds to 5 seconds.

The 0.1s stun is not a problem, but as the stun becomes longer, human error makes it quite tedious for the opponent to response. For example, when going for a physical last hit, a well-timed W from TB could disrupt his opponent sufficiently long, creating condition for either a missed last hit or more harass damage, or both, on his opponent. But this is acceptable as long as the harass is not too devastating. See discussion on damage below.

Lightning Storm
- Clearvision and True Sight duration increased from 4.5 seconds to 5 seconds.

Ok.

=================================

Now let's look at the capped damage and mana consumption against a basic hero with 5 magic armor (~25% magic damage reduction) in a few burst scenarios and my comments

At lvl 1: Q (65 dmg / 65 mana / every 1.5s)

There is a substantial difference in 0.5s cooldown on laning presence. 0.5s difference would mean 0.5s less for the opponent to counter (e.g. harass, aggro creep, or deny creep) and 0.5s faster for TB to cooldown the spell to kill two consecutive creeps. This difference is huge early game as it can make it much easier for TB to last hit multiple creeps efficiently while simultaneously damaging the opponent hero. This is not to mention the degree of human error, which I think could be around 0.5 seconds.

At lvl 2: Q (65 dmg / 65 mana / every 1.5s) + W (95 dmg / 75 mana / every 6s) --> each burst = 160 damage at level 2 for 140 mana 

This damage burst is insane at lvl 2, and very low cooldown too. No other hero who can simultaneously burst his opponent while retaining aoe damage for farming.

At lvl 3: Q (65 dmg / 65 mana / every 1.5s) + W (155 dmg / 95 mana / every 6s) --> each burst = 220 damage at level 2 for 160 mana

Like above, and the math goes on. Imagine the situation where TB buys mana potions to sustain his spell spamming, he would be able to spam 2 more Q every 20 seconds. Given a total of 4 lane creeps every 30s, the total mana required to spam all of these would be 260 mana which can be completely filled with 2 mana potions. For his opponent, there are two situations: (1) ignore his mana regen, avoid standing near lane creeps, risk losing farm or (2) pressure the lane by going to cancel the mana potion. If the opponent follows the second solution, which is pretty much the general behavior of higher-rated players, the lightest consequence would be getting hit by 1 Q + 1 W = at least -160hp at lvl 2 or -220hp at lvl 3 for a potion that is worth 50 gold to the enemy and relatively less damage. So both situations are disadvantageous to TB's opponent because they lose much more (gold, exp, mana, hp) than they could potentially gain, comparing to TB.

To put thing into perspective, you can watch this replay: 161644929 only for the first 5 minutes of gameplay.

You will have a feeling of how easy it is for TB to recover and even pressuring his opponent even after getting bloodlusted. From a dominating position with twice as much xpm + gpm, I was pressured and eventually lost the lane. Rank-wise, I am from the highest bracket and TB is from diamond bracket.

Last but not least, the picture of the 62% winrate ape still stands.

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Thanks for the feedback - I already got a list of changes to him in an upcoming hotfix patch ūüôā¬†feel free to continue leaving feedback though

Thanks for the efficient work!

I will check out other heroes and follow through with the next hotfix to see how everything feels.

This balance discussion is actually kind of fun.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, quinea said:

after a post of my opinion about gauntlet's abilities,  now i cant log onto a chat server and  matchmaking though i use VPN. even before this i dont have to use VPn and i can log in and play matchmaking normally. do you ban me for this? are you discriminating against me for  expressing this opinion? before this i can log into the server and MM normally. why cant i log onto chatservers and matchnmaking any more.  do you have a rancor against me?  i have a lot of suspicion against a gm. do you do it?

FB doesn't randomly ban people for posting balance opinions on the forum ūüėĄ

It's most likely a temporary issue on your end

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, quinea said:

i can play  other accounts but this account cant be logged into a chatserver and matchmaking. i disagree with you. i got banned from entering into a chatserver and MM. if its on a technical issue, other accounts will not be able to get in MM and chatsevers as well. why only this account????

Well you named VPN so I assumed you just couldn't connect to chatserver from your IP.

Anyways, I doubt they would ban you like that and let your other accounts play, but I can't be 100% sure so, try to contact customer support

Link to post
Share on other sites

I played 10 solo midwars games across all my linked accounts and did not get the suposed 250 silver reward, is this a bug or you have to play all 10 matches in one account?

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 6/7/2021 at 1:43 PM, quinea said:

so far my account has not been able to connect to the chat and matchmaking servers after contacting Customer Service.  neither has no one replied to the email. is there anyone still working? is this a discrimination against a player?

Exactly! They don't solve your case if they don't like you. My condolences.

Link to post
Share on other sites

√ó
√ó
  • Create New...