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Will be fixed for next patch (this is only happening for Simple Tooltips). I still suggest using Detailed Tooltips as they are mostly the same these days.

omg TB imba kill CD one procast lol need nerf!11!

Honestly, I'm fine with him not being put in a similar defensive role as the other supports. I would love to see his ability back to transfer stuns etc. I always saw him more in an offensive support r

Posted (edited)

So, do you remember my post about Parasite being able to farm Pazzlebox at 6 min? Here you go:

spacer.png

 

You need to start with Ether Jewel (+120 Max Mana) and 3 Mana Potions.
On the screenshot, I got 0 (ZERO) Vagabond Leaders. I think the time could be around 5:30. So, how balanced is Parasite with Pazzlebox min 5?

Edited by Fox`Tail
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Posted (edited)

Puzzlebox isn't even strong until level 3.

 

You know you can still do this in the previous patch right? The total gold amount did not really diminish by that much (400 or so gold is not much for Parasite) and would only delay it by maybe a minute for Parasite if you tried doing this previous patch. I don't see what your concern is. 

Edited by ElementUser
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Just a side note: I was reading through some heroes abilities in-game and realised that there seems to be no mention of Ichor's E becoming "Ichoric Blood" when R is first leveled and what it actually does, at least not in Learnatorium. I think it could be nice to have some mention of it outside from patch notes as well.

Also, really excited to play this new patch later this week, seems like a very interesting patch!

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, Berkast said:

Haven't played yet, but I think you guys may have overlooked Master of Arms when reducing attack ranges.

It's different with blue gun, which is intended for the time being. It can be adjusted if need be later.

 

Thanks for pointing it out though. We'll see if he needs readjustment.

Edited by ElementUser
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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, fexavi said:

Just a side note: I was reading through some heroes abilities in-game and realised that there seems to be no mention of Ichor's E becoming "Ichoric Blood" when R is first leveled and what it actually does, at least not in Learnatorium. I think it could be nice to have some mention of it outside from patch notes as well.

Also, really excited to play this new patch later this week, seems like a very interesting patch!

Will be fixed for next patch (this is only happening for Simple Tooltips). I still suggest using Detailed Tooltips as they are mostly the same these days.

Edited by ElementUser
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Overall I like that are you confident enough to change attack ranges on ranged heroes. I just wanted to point out that you had some misses, 500 attack range on heroes such as pyromancer and bombadier that have passives that scale with their auto attacks will suffer hard from this. These heroes need a high attack range to stay relevant in the game.  

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Idk, thunderbringer seems rlly OP now... with that 450 range and the nerf on another mid heroes. What was the point to buff atack range of tb if he has like a long range with skills? Hes not putting hinself in bad position in mid lane...

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ElementUser, i appreciate the effort you make by trying to keep things fresh, but you just killed Ichor and let me explain you why, is the hero still viable? Maybe, but you turned him into plain and boring and inneficient AoE pushing healer. Ichor was a very well balanced hero, who could keep your key ally alive in most scenarios by taking all the focus himself, he was already a frontline hero and a lot of times you would have to sacrifice yourself for your hard carry or key ally. The current version of 20% mitigation is not enough to make a significant impact, it doesnt help keeping your allies safe at all. On top of that, you are a suport that wont earn much gold making buying a Behemoth's Heart almost impossible for most games, your low range and slow attack animation wont allow you to farm and build tanky in the long lane as a non suport neither. On top of that, having a behemoth's heart will only increase healing from your ultimate by around 20 hp per second, wich is nothing. Your E new sub ability is based on you attacking to heal your ally, wich is nonsense since you are a sup that has no benefits from atack speed items meaning you wont be able to land more than a couple of attacks, so an extra 40 hp heal for your ally, again, completely useless. On top of that, your ultimate has a 100/80/60 cd wich means you cant use it all that often to call this new version a sustainable AoE Healer, not to mention the heal its pretty low, even if you have a 3k hp Ichor it will heal for around 100 hp per second, do you really think a 700 hp heal over 7 seconds has an impact with how fast current teamfights are? The older version allowed for the hero to at least benefit from other utility items that were cheaper like Astro, Stormspirit, Tablet, etc, so even if you didnt had enough gold to build tanky you could still do your job. I just used him and even won, but i assure you it was boring and while i can only speak for myself i will not be playing that hero again. The older version was perfect and one of my favourite heroes to play, but only every now and then cuz you had to sacrifice yourself a lot for your carry. I hope you can realice what you did to a hero that was perfectly fine before and revert these changes. Best regards.

Edited by GiveUpBra
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Posted (edited)
18 minutes ago, GiveUpBra said:

ElementUser, i appreciate the effort you make by trying to keep things fresh, but you just killed Ichor and let me explain you why, is the hero still viable? Maybe, but you turned him into plain and boring and inneficient AoE pushing healer. Ichor was a very well balanced hero, who could keep your key ally alive in most scenarios by taking all the focus himself, he was already a frontline hero and a lot of times you would have to sacrifice yourself for your hard carry or key ally. The current version of 20% mitigation is not enought to make a significant impact, it doesnt help keeping your allies safe at all. On top of that, you are a suport that wont earn much gold making buying a Behemoth's Heart almost impossible for most games, your low range and slow attack animation wont allow you to farm and build tanky in the long lane as a non suport neither. On top of that, having a behemoth's heart will only increase healing from your ultimate by around 20 hp per second, wich is nothing. Your E new sub ability is based on you attacking to heal your ally, wich is nonsense since you are a sup that has no benefits from atack speed items meaning you wont be able to land more than a couple of attacks, so an extra 40 hp heal for your ally, again, completely useless. On top of that, your ultimate has a 100/80/60 cd wich means you cant use it all that often to call this new version a sustainable AoE Healer, not to mention the heal its pretty low, even if you have a 3k hp Ichor it will heal for around 100 hp per second, do you really think a 700 hp heal over 7 seconds has an impact with how fast current teamfights are?. The older version allowed for the hero to at least benefit from other utility items that were cheaper like Astro, Stormspirit, Tablet, etc, so even if you didnt had enough gold to build tanky you could still do your job. I just used him and even won, but i assure you it was boring and while i can only speak for myself i will not be playing that hero again. The older version was perfect and one of my favourite heroes to play, but only every now and then cuz you had to sacrifice yourself a lot for your carry. I hope you can realice what you did to a hero that was perfectly fine before and revert these changes. Best regards.

The goal was to eliminate overlap between Martyr/Ichor/Monarch. If you think about it, Ichor's old W is a vastly superior skill compared to Monarch's W. It was basically 60% Damage Mitigation while letting the hero do whatever they want. Monarch's W was around the same thing, except the hero had to be stationary & received a minor heal over time.

Heals have to be balanced really carefully with respect to damage -- this is true for all games. If the healing numbers gets too out of hand, then you would never end up killing anything.

Thanks for the feedback though. Time will tell how the hero performs & I can't make changes based off of 1 just player's feedback.

Edited by ElementUser
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I have to disagree, Ichor was not op and quite different from monarch and martyr since he had to commit deeply in order to help allies while monarch and martyr can both most of the times keep a somewhat safe distance while still providing suport, on the other hand ichor was different due to the fact that he could be a suport that could be build tanky and still do his job wich with the new current iteration doesnt seem to matter much at all. You have to also consider the fun factor, it feels amazing saving your ally from an almost certain death, even if you died while doing it, the new version is just plain and generic. What im afraid is that knowing how you work it will take months before the new ichor becomes adjusted and i have not seen you ever reverting a hero to their older original version, maybe im wrong on this last statement but i dont think so. On top of that not many people play ichor, and a lot less use the forums wich means this hero will just be forgotten. Anyway, i provided my feedback, what happens next is up to you.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, GiveUpBra said:

I have to disagree, Ichor was not op and quite different from monarch and martyr since he had to commit deeply in order to help allies while monarch and martyr can both most of the times keep a somewhat safe distance while still providing suport, on the other hand ichor was different due to the fact that he could be a suport that could be build tanky and still do his job wich with the new current iteration doesnt seem to matter much at all. You have to also consider the fun factor, it feels amazing saving your ally from an almost certain death, even if you died while doing it, the new version is just plain and generic. What im afraid is that knowing how you work it will take months before the new ichor becomes adjusted and i have not seen you ever reverting a hero to their older original version, maybe im wrong on this last statement but i dont think so. On top of that not many people play ichor, and a lot less use the forums wich means this hero will just be forgotten. Anyway, i provided my feedback, what happens next is up to you.

Patches are every ~8 weeks (~2 months), so of course it would take at least a few months to do anything about it. I don't have a good enough reason to call for a hotfix so soon & as with any patch, it needs time for players to find out what the hero can do & how well they do it.

I'll consider adding a bit of damage reduction back to it in the future (only if needed), though having 60% damage reduction on the target without limitations is just broken conceptually. Technically it's constrained by Ichor's HP pool, but Ichor can just exit the fight just as easily and act as a damage sponge. Just wanted to point it out.

In any case, the old ultimate was flat out boring & it needed some flavour to go along with it. Promoting proactive play from Ichor & being in the middle of the fight is the way to go for sure & the direction is fine, you're just really focused on the burst damage mitigation part.

Again, time will tell.

 

P.S. you are indeed wrong on your revert point. Shadowblade is basically reverted back to his original iteration, except with tweaks to his ultimate numbers for Str form HP penalty scaling (plus a small mechanical tweak to his E).

Edited by ElementUser
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Honestly, I'm fine with him not being put in a similar defensive role as the other supports. I would love to see his ability back to transfer stuns etc. I always saw him more in an offensive support role. At least he was much more fun when the had the ability (which was quite unique). Together with his ult granting AS and dealing damage I think having him in some offensive support role would be healthy for him.

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Well, not every1 can be pleased i guess 🙁. I would like to point out that while you may see 60% dmg reduction as broken, that is the main strong point of the hero, the rest of his kit is not as powerfull yet sinergizes well with it thus making him in my opinion quite balanced overall and i think the win rates agree with me, i would also like to point out that even if you buff the current 20% by another 10 or 20% it wont feel the same than before and may aswell keep the current new version, creating a mix between the old and the new has never done the trick, in my humble and personal opinion.

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9 hours ago, ElementUser said:

The goal was to eliminate overlap between Martyr/Ichor/Monarch. If you think about it, Ichor's old W is a vastly superior skill compared to Monarch's W. It was basically 60% Damage Mitigation while letting the hero do whatever they want. Monarch's W was around the same thing, except the hero had to be stationary & received a minor heal over time.

Heals have to be balanced really carefully with respect to damage -- this is true for all games. If the healing numbers gets too out of hand, then you would never end up killing anything.

Thanks for the feedback though. Time will tell how the hero performs & I can't make changes based off of 1 just player's feedback.

 

Overall, I feel like Ichor got a net nerf this patch.  Sure he's a healer who has a heal that "scales" into the late game  it has to scale up a LOT to be even good, whereas other healers have great heals right from the start to the end of the game. 

I feel like by trying to differentiate him you nerfed him into the ground now. His early-mid game just became non-existant since his transfusion was his key ability that made him a viable pick up since he could babysit and protect key heroes throughout the whole game, but barely will be able to now with only 20% damage reduction. His ultimate heal is completely lackluster early-mid game and lets not forget it's an ultimate ability with a long cool down. The fact that it scales means that Ichor will need to get items to scale with it for it to be even viable, which is even worse since he's a support that can't farm for shit.

Also, by nerfing his transfusion you indirectly nerfed his passive damage reduction since the whole reason for his passive E was to mainly reduce the damage coming from his transfusion, which is now only 20% compared to the 60% before.

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Quote

New Item: Adeve's Cloak
- Components: Blood Ruby (550 Gold) + Ether Jewel (450 Gold) + Nihil Crystal (200 Gold) + Recipe (1100 Gold) = 2300 Gold Total
* Can be upgraded 1 time, for a max item level of 2.
* Total cost is therefore 2300/3400 Gold.
- Passive stat bonuses: +180/270 Max Health, +140/180 Max Mana, +0.65/0.8 Mana Regeneration
* The passsive Mana Regeneration bonus does not stack with itself or Nihil Crystal.
- Passive effect: while off cooldown, taking damage from player-controlled enemy sources starts a 3 second timer on the item and starts accumulating damage. The timer is refreshed each time you take damage from player-controlled enemy sources.
- If the accumulated post-mitigation damage exceeds 20% of your Max Health or 300 (whichever is higher) while the timer is active, the item is placed on cooldown and Adeve's Protection is applied for 3 seconds.
- Adeve's Protection applies:
* 15/25 Health Regeneration per second
* 10/20 Mana Regeneration per second
* Increase your Debuff and Stun Reduction by 15/40%.
* Reduces incoming Damage by 15/40%.
* Reduces your Damage Output by 85/60%.
- Cooldown: 80 seconds
* Found under the Protective category in the shop.

+ Burst damage has been an incredibly potent highlight of HoN's lifetime, to the point where not much can be done against it (i.e. the burst damage cannot be humanly reacted to).
+ This item serves to mitigate the damage incurred from a surprise blink-initiation without needing to react to it so that your character has a more likely chance to respond if they are caught off guard.
+ It is important to note that this item is not meant to be a hard counter against opponents with amazing initiation (it is still very possible the wielder can still die even with these effects) - it is just another tool for heroes who benefit greatly from using their spells in a teamfight to have a chance to use those spells instead of simply dying from burst damage.
+ This item provides no offensive bonuses and costs a decent amount of Gold for its benefits. It is intended to be a niche item for certain heroes in specific game scenarios, and is generally disincentivized for certain core heroes and carry heroes.

how to delete Berzerker from hero pool with this one simple trick!

 

Quote

Gunblade

Lethal Range
- Can now toggle this ability to change your Attack Range to Melee.

nomad 2.0

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Posted (edited)
17 hours ago, fid1 said:

 

Overall, I feel like Ichor got a net nerf this patch.  Sure he's a healer who has a heal that "scales" into the late game  it has to scale up a LOT to be even good, whereas other healers have great heals right from the start to the end of the game. 

I feel like by trying to differentiate him you nerfed him into the ground now. His early-mid game just became non-existant since his transfusion was his key ability that made him a viable pick up since he could babysit and protect key heroes throughout the whole game, but barely will be able to now with only 20% damage reduction. His ultimate heal is completely lackluster early-mid game and lets not forget it's an ultimate ability with a long cool down. The fact that it scales means that Ichor will need to get items to scale with it for it to be even viable, which is even worse since he's a support that can't farm for shit.

Also, by nerfing his transfusion you indirectly nerfed his passive damage reduction since the whole reason for his passive E was to mainly reduce the damage coming from his transfusion, which is now only 20% compared to the 60% before.

I know it's only day 3 since the patch, but........

 

3LXDiA6.png

 

Just saying.

For reference, the hero's play rate was about 200-250 before, and the win rate was fluctuating around 47-50%.

Edited by ElementUser
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Bruh of course it's gonna be a little higher right now since more people are trying him out and nobody has yet to adapt to him. Some Int caster can just buy spell sunder and his ultimate is useless. 

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, fid1 said:

Bruh of course it's gonna be a little higher right now since more people are trying him out and nobody has yet to adapt to him. Some Int caster can just buy spell sunder and his ultimate is useless. 

Spell Sunder reduces Health Regeneration. 

Ichor's healing is actual healing, not Health Regeneration. It is therefore unaffected. 

Edited by ElementUser
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1 hour ago, ElementUser said:

Spell Sunder reduces Health Regeneration. 

Ichor's healing is actual healing, not Health Regeneration. It is therefore unaffected. 

Yeah well his ultimate heal still sucks. A spell sunder on a spell caster could still probably easily out damage his heal anyways. Also, at like 2200 hp level 16 he can only pump out a 400 hp heal after 7 seconds while a nymphora can pump a 300 hp heal at lvl 7 after 3 seconds.  

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