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Sacrificial Stone


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I think the price tag of 1500 gold on Sacrificial Stone is a little bit too high. I usually exclusively buy it only on support heroes, and the reduced respawn timer along with the +20% healing done is very nice, but I don't need the extra stats as much as I need the other modifiers.

1500 gold is A LOT for a support. If it's possible to lower it to something more reasonable in the vicinity of ~1000 gold, perhaps with less raw stats, but keeping the respawn timer reduction and heal reduction, it would be appreciated.

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Its an amazing item on Prophet, War Chief, Artesia, Jeraziah, Accursed, Skrap. Just to name a few. I feel like the item in its current state is really strong, kind of required. Lowering the price even further would just make it even more of an auto include in every build, thus making itembuilds less diverse. Sac stone imo is in a good place. Power supply at 540 is kinda expensive, but 960 more and you get a sac stone? Thats borderline overpowered. Lowering the price below 1500 would make it too strong like the old astrolabe. 

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So the point of the item is to make it a more fair replacement of the old Grave Locket to act as a cost-efficient mid priced stat stick that serves as a transitionary item. It tanks up most heroes enough so they don't get solo gank killed as easily (though to be fair you could do the same thing better with 2 bracers at a cheaper price).

The only real difference is that Sacrificial Stone builds from other cheap efficient items that have effective uses in the laning phase, which is why it's so popular. 

Edited by ElementUser
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I suppose I just don't get the item that well, I almost never use it on the heroes I play. And when I play heroes like Pearl, I'm looking for the quickest way to get the most useful items as soon as possible (Portal Key, Stormspirit) - and spending 1500 gold on Sacrificial Stone or 1750 gold on Astrolabe just feels like too much for me, personally.

I do see it picked up in many games, and some players pick it up in every game they play, especially on heroes like Oogie/Torturer/etc. But I just never play those heroes, and I look at the item from a different perspective.

I suppose this item is where it should be, if that's the case.

Edited by Lunarios
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Very brief comment since I'm short on time. Sacrificial Stone has serious issues. That's because first, there are only a few heroes who will want it, since only a few heroes can heal in the first place. Let's list them:

Soul Reaper
Rhapsody
Nymphora
Jeraziah
Accursed
Artesia
Monarch
Pearl
Demented Shaman
Voodoo Jester
Warchief
Skrap
Prophet (probably not but hey)
Midas (even less than Prophet but hey)
Ophelia (???)

Now which of these heroes would actually want a Sacrificial Stone over Astrolabe? The latter item is only a couple hundred gold more expensive, heals for more, and heals more people. In a vacuum it is virtually strictly better. That means Sacrificial Stone can conceivably be useful in two situations:

1. As a transition item out of the early game. Problem with this is you could just buy Mana Battery for 200g and put the rest of the gold towards Astrolabe, and it'd still be a better use of your gold.

2. Getting it in addition to Astrolabe. Now this is defensible, but you would still be finishing Astrolabe first before Sacrificial Stone. Sacrificial Stone is not exactly cheap, at the typical support GPM of 250-300gpm it takes like 5-6 minutes to get. If you're getting this on top of Astrolabe then you are quickly getting past the time when heals are effective. Also need to keep in mind that supports also have other items they need to get - wards and potentially mana regen being the most important.

Upshot is I don't think I've seen this item anywhere except in MW, and even then it's rare to buy it (offhand I don't remember anyone other than me getting it in my games), which is kind of ironic really since everyone has a Mana Battery, i.e. the base item, in MW.

Item needs buff or change or something because currently it's not good.

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Yet, some higher level players like Dutchownage buys the item because it's a stat-stick that offers important early game benefits before Astrolabe does. Note that Sacrificial Stone also doesn't clash with an Astrolabe's active cooldown effect from another hero. You'd lose out on a lot of value if 2 heroes pick up Astro in a teamfight -- just saying. I believe you overlooked this point of contention.

I do believe I mentioned the point of the item in my previous post. It's an analog to old Grave Locket as a stat stick, that also has the side benefit of helping out certain carries & certain supports.

Another thing to note is that players in this game hate wasting value from items they have picked up. If you pick up the components for Astrolabe just for the sake of getting the item, it can feel somewhat of a waste. But if you build up Mana Battery and use it in laning phase, then decide to go to Power Supply, but you also want the item slot efficiency & you notice that you are using Power Supply quite often, Sacrificial Stone is likely a much more enticing option. If you only do Mana Battery + Astrolabe, you're using 2 item slots instead of 1, even though you are technically more gold efficient on a selfish level. It's a minor point, but a very important one to consider that drives player item purchase decisions.

Not everyone is into gold min-maxing efficiency at the cost of item slot efficiency.

Edited by ElementUser
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Item is great. It's not an always pick, but it's a great pick on some heroes.

A lot of heroes have healing and have a need for Stats. The heroes you listed are a super narrow use of the item. Looking at someone like Dampeer, he has a ton of self healing, requires all three stats to really function, burst healing/mana, and could use the death cooldown to effectively get back in the game to regain Essence. There is one item that grants all of this and it is Sacrificial Stone.

The item is more than just a supportive item, and I think your view of the item blinds you to how good it is.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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  • 3 weeks later...
On 5/26/2021 at 1:43 PM, ElementUser said:

Yet, some higher level players like Dutchownage buys the item because it's a stat-stick that offers important early game benefits before Astrolabe does. Note that Sacrificial Stone also doesn't clash with an Astrolabe's active cooldown effect from another hero. You'd lose out on a lot of value if 2 heroes pick up Astro in a teamfight -- just saying. I believe you overlooked this point of contention.

I do believe I mentioned the point of the item in my previous post. It's an analog to old Grave Locket as a stat stick, that also has the side benefit of helping out certain carries & certain supports.

Another thing to note is that players in this game hate wasting value from items they have picked up. If you pick up the components for Astrolabe just for the sake of getting the item, it can feel somewhat of a waste. But if you build up Mana Battery and use it in laning phase, then decide to go to Power Supply, but you also want the item slot efficiency & you notice that you are using Power Supply quite often, Sacrificial Stone is likely a much more enticing option. If you only do Mana Battery + Astrolabe, you're using 2 item slots instead of 1, even though you are technically more gold efficient on a selfish level. It's a minor point, but a very important one to consider that drives player item purchase decisions.

Not everyone is into gold min-maxing efficiency at the cost of item slot efficiency.

1) Who is Dutchownage and why should I care what he says about the item?

2) Are you saying Sacrificial Stone is only worth buying if you have a teammate getting Astrolabe? If yes - what makes you think that makes the item "balanced"?

3) "players in this game hate wasting value from items they have picked up" Did mid players on the international client stop buying Bottle, which doesn't upgrade to anything? Also it's fairly common on Garena to buy Battery and do not upgrade it to Power Supply, let alone to Sac Stone.

4) In the early game, there's nothing wrong with using two item slots instead of one, because nobody is "slot-capped". That's why people buy Minor Totem.

I still don't think I've seen anyone get Sacrificial Stone in FoC games on Garena, and it's also not common in MW.

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Mm, well like it or not, the item has its place in the game and is picked up. Doesn't matter if you have a different perspective, not everyone plays the game like you do. 

 

If it is getting picked up on high level players and also regular players with good cause, that speaks for something.

 

Closing this as Sacrificial Stone has a good place in HoN and is fine as is in general. There are polarizing opinions in here, and that speaks for itself here. It generally means it's a good item without it being overpowered. 

Edited by ElementUser
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