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I always felt that Grave was lacking some form of better lategame performance or utility since with time he gets quite restricted in gamestyle. I tried to figure out a boost which does not benefit him too much in a sense of making him overpowered but still add a new form of playstile for GK. So the SotM can be an option in certain situation or if you have a spare Legacy, but he doesn't have to be boosted necessarily.

So my suggestion is to add a new way of using his ultimate in form a SotM-Ability in a more supportive way.

 

How does this look?

Current Ultimate:

GK spawns 10/16/24 Zombies in two forms, unstables and wretched zombies. Unstables explode and deal 55/70/85 MD and wretched deal 30/35/40 PD. Zombies are uncontrollable and have 350/500/650 HP.

 

My suggestion for SotM:

Add another usage of his Ultimate by activating it again. If it gets activated again, all the unstable zombies left will explode immediatly (and still deal damage in the area) but if they get killed by the second activation, they leave a slightly bigger area of sticky waste around them that will give enemies a tapering movement slow by 25% over 2 seconds, if they step on it.

 

What's the benefit?
One would have the option to play a bit more supportive in a sense of creating a field of sticky waste to slow enemies in a teamfight while still dealing damage from explosions. Additionally this would boost the wretched zombies since they would be able to hit targets easier and more often before they actually escape.

One could discuss of increasing the area of the unstable zombies, too. That way one could create a bite more effectiveness for the SotM effect.

 

Opinions?

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25% for 2 seconds is not strong enough to be worth a SOTM upgrade. That is a really poor cost:benefit ratio. 

I suggest something more akin and fun way to how we actually think of zombies - Restrain or Crippling ability, and their infectious.

Counter suggestion:

(make a real zombie apocalypse)

Zombie damage stays the same. Increased zombie count to 35. Increases summon area to 700 radius. Increase zombie duration by 3s. 

Wretched zombies gain either some restrain mechanic like OR physical attacks that apply a stacking MS slow 4% per hit stackable.

Unstable zombies that explode leave behind DoT damage (like an infection) for each unit affected in the explosion. 30MD per second for 3sec. Does not stack.

 

**Balphagore got a massive SOTM upgrade. I don't see why Gravekeeper can't get one like this as well.

 

 

Edited by MoreMeds
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28 minutes ago, MoreMeds said:

25% for 2 seconds is not strong enough to be worth a SOTM upgrade. That is a really poor cost:benefit ratio. 

I suggest something more akin and fun way to how we actually think of zombies - Restrain or Crippling ability, and their infectious.

Counter suggestion:

(make a real zombie apocalypse)

Zombie damage stays the same. Increased zombie count to 35. Increases summon area to 700 radius. Increase zombie duration by 3s. 

Wretched zombies gain either some restrain mechanic like OR physical attacks that apply a stacking MS slow 4% per hit stackable.

Unstable zombies that explode leave behind DoT damage (like an infection) for each unit affected in the explosion. 30MD per second for 3sec. Does not stack.

 

**Balphagore got a massive SOTM upgrade. I don't see why Gravekeeper can't get one like this as well.

 

 

I'm not sure if you understood my intention of the slow. The idea would not be that they get a one time slow of 25% over 2 secs but rather that the exploding unstable zombies create sort of a mine-field of slows. If you step on another area of an exploded zombie you get the slow reset to 25% over 2 secs (imagine like a very small vindi silence area just with slow).
So if people stand in the middle they have to actually select another path to get out or take the 25% slow if dead zombies are in their way. I mean it is easy to play with the numbers if the slow is not enough and not worth it.

Also I like the addition of a 30MD/s over a short amount of time. That would be a nice addition to the wretched (instead of unstable) zombies. Like a bite of them and afterwards you get magic damage for a short amount of time.

The combo would give some sort of a toxin claw feeling on a bigger scale.

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Well right now people just walk right through the zombie apocalypse. Doesn't even phase people about the few zombies that pop up. So yea maybe the slow fields are a good idea but it doesn't justify what zombies actually do or mean mythologically. 

Zombies don't create slow fields in fanfiction.

And it would still be 4200 for some slow fields every 40s. Very expensive. Mind as well just get frostfield.

Edited by MoreMeds
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9 minutes ago, MoreMeds said:

Well right now people just walk right through the zombie apocalypse. Doesn't even phase people about the few zombies that pop up. So yea maybe the slow fields are a good idea but it doesn't justify what zombies actually do or mean mythologically. 

And it would still be 4200 for some slow fields every 40s. Very expensive. Mind as well just get frostfield.

True. In that case one could increase the slow to 30% over 3 secs and line it up with the 30md/s of the wretched zombies in that case.
I think the idea is still capture. Especially if you implement the MD on the wretched ones. Even the slow can be fitting depending on what sort of zombie you look at. ^^
Refer to it as "zombie bite" and "zombie slow".

Also I already stated at the very beginning, that I don't intend to create a staff that is a necessity on GK but rather a nice addition. Maybe someone already has a staff and it might come in handy. In that case it would only be 2300 additional cost, which seems quite reasonable. Not all Staffs need to be very cost/benefit-efficient. ^^

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Zombies only annoying when casted on like 1 or 2 people. If used in a 5v5 team fight, its nothing. Slow fields with an ability to walk past them is not a good investment, that sounds more like a normal ability. 

If I'm blowing 4200 or 6500, it better be a game changer. Not like little slow or creep field shit.

But I agree there needs to be some way to make it more zombie like.

 

Edited by MoreMeds
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I have some reminiscent thoughts of Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Minefield+Mass Slow spells, along with Plague Rider's Earthblight ability.

Perhaps, the slowing field that you are talking about, in addition to the 25% slow for 2 seconds, it will also cause an effect similar to Plague Rider's Earthblight in a reduced power level (In regards to distance activation/pull distance), and cause a minor Damage over Time effect while affected by the slow (Something in the ballpark of 10/20/30 magic damage per second).

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On 5/3/2021 at 5:37 PM, Lunarios said:

I have some reminiscent thoughts of Heroes of Might and Magic 3 Minefield+Mass Slow spells, along with Plague Rider's Earthblight ability.

Perhaps, the slowing field that you are talking about, in addition to the 25% slow for 2 seconds, it will also cause an effect similar to Plague Rider's Earthblight in a reduced power level (In regards to distance activation/pull distance), and cause a minor Damage over Time effect while affected by the slow (Something in the ballpark of 10/20/30 magic damage per second).

Now that I think about it one could increase the slow dramatically and make it like a -40% to make the player choose a different way of moving in the ult.
Maybe not a pullback but a -1/-2 magic armor to give it a combo with the GK spells itself and the wretched zombies (if they get magic damage, too).
So that would create like a labyrinth in which one would rather not step on the "toxic spots" if there is enough magic damage is around.

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