Jump to content

Recommended Posts

This is older then HON, but why let 0 days accounts join mmr ?  Any other descent MOBA have you playing like 200 games before join it. The only new accounts I see are either trolls or smurfs, you should focus on the older players instead.  There is not a single game i play that we don't have a brand new account  that  is a troll feeding or a smurf that gets mad and dc because died in a 1400 brackets. The game is almost dead and this is killing the very few survivors that keep playing, because who wants spend coins and support a game that protect trolls instead of punish.

Other point is I reported a guy that did 0x14 in 30 minutes without buying a single item and I got a reply that no action was taken. How is that even possible ?  Because I'm pretty sure if I had avoided afk on the same game I would be banned.

 

Forgot to mention why not make mmr go down until 0 ? 

Edited by Aikhal
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 50
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

Too controversial. Too ambiguous. I am often accused for off-meta strategies, trolling, griefing, and everything your mind can think of. One of my strategies was a 5-wave Night Hound Sui sta

I dont think the playerbase is big enough to split it more, doing what you sugest would make that new players would never find a game, on top of that we have smurfs that play on low mmr accounts cuz t

Could make it 50 midwars or so before joining normal TMM... about time we make midwars have an use 😂😂😂

I dont think the playerbase is big enough to split it more, doing what you sugest would make that new players would never find a game, on top of that we have smurfs that play on low mmr accounts cuz they cant find games on higher brackets. In regards to your report, if the player is new player/noob, meaning hes not feeding on purpose hes just a bad/new player then thats not reportable, its tricky to tell sometimes so i guess innocent till proven guilty. I sugest playing with a friend, the amount of trolls and bad players you have to deal with on solo q is huge.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Aikhal said:

Any other descent MOBA have you playing like 200 games before join it.

HoN used to have unranked games for this. However queue times were about 20 minutes - and that was when HoN was at its best. So right now changing it to "require 200 games first" would basically remove new players completely.

4 hours ago, Aikhal said:

The only new accounts I see are either trolls or smurfs, you should focus on the older players instead

There's something in the works to reduce smurfing - at least I heard that it is.

4 hours ago, Aikhal said:

Other point is I reported a guy that did 0x14 in 30 minutes without buying a single item and I got a reply that no action was taken. How is that even possible ?  Because I'm pretty sure if I had avoided afk on the same game I would be banned.

You either require top-reporting-priority (which requires a lot of guilty reports of you) or at least two people need to report a player or it won't get looked at.
However in your case, it has probably done you a favor since that player was probably actually a new player and therefor not reportable.

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, Manu311 said:

HoN used to have unranked games for this. However queue times were about 20 minutes - and that was when HoN was at its best. So right now changing it to "require 200 games first" would basically remove new players completely.

Could make it 50 midwars or so before joining normal TMM... about time we make midwars have an use 😂😂😂

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the answers, 

 

Regarding the report, it wasn't a new account and he had a lot of games feeding. And when you don't buy any item and don't do anything people is trying to tell you to help , yes you are a troll. 

 

I think one option to help it would be lowering the starting mmr or start at 0.

 

I agree the queue would be 20 minutes, but today is already 10 minutes and I believe everyone would prefer wait 10 more minutes in queue rather then loose 40 minutes with a troll.  Because playing with a trolls you get punished twice, first ruin your game and second you can't leave. 

 

8 hours ago, Mr`Cactus said:

Could make it 50 midwars or so before joining normal TMM... about time we make midwars have an use 😂😂😂


Yes it would be something at least, but let someone who never played the game insta join a ranked game is one of the many reasons this game is dying for a long time. 

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2021 at 6:32 PM, Aikhal said:

Thanks for the answers, 

 

Regarding the report, it wasn't a new account and he had a lot of games feeding. And when you don't buy any item and don't do anything people is trying to tell you to help , yes you are a troll. 

 


 

Hello,

There is a chance that was a mistake as well, I don't mind helping you or giving you feedback on that particular player and that particular game!
Toss me a DM, and we can talk about it!

[SGM] — Senior Game Master for Heroes of Newerth
                                                                                                                                                 
Want to get in touch with an SGM?
Want to appeal your suspension?
 Click Click >
R.A.P helpdesk<

Link to post
Share on other sites
23 hours ago, &#x60;Shattered said:

Hello,

There is a chance that was a mistake as well, I don't mind helping you or giving you feedback on that particular player and that particular game!
Toss me a DM, and we can talk about it!

Hello, thank you, 

 

Tried to DM it says you cannot receive messages.

Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/29/2021 at 5:32 PM, Aikhal said:

I think one option to help it would be lowering the starting mmr or start at 0.

This. Not 0mmr but 1250 like it used to be. One of the biggest problems this "season" is that even with 6 losses you get silver rank. with 2 lucky wins you get gold rank. So all the bronze players are suddenly 300mmr above their skill level, which is not fun for them or their teammates.

Just make it as it used to be: Start at 1250 in placements with a max of 1750 (or keep it 1700 thats fine).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Froschbein said:

This. Not 0mmr but 1250 like it used to be. One of the biggest problems this "season" is that even with 6 losses you get silver rank. with 2 lucky wins you get gold rank. So all the bronze players are suddenly 300mmr above their skill level, which is not fun for them or their teammates.

Just make it as it used to be: Start at 1250 in placements with a max of 1750 (or keep it 1700 thats fine).

I agree it could start at 1250, but could go lower after that, this way the trolls and feeders would be in a 1000 mmr limbo.  Because the way is today is like there is no punishment regarding mmr, once they get 1401 they can do whatever they want that won't go lower. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Aikhal said:

I agree it could start at 1250, but could go lower after that, this way the trolls and feeders would be in a 1000 mmr limbo.  Because the way is today is like there is no punishment regarding mmr, once they get 1401 they can do whatever they want that won't go lower. 

you guys realise this would just further promote smurfing, right? would accomplish exactly the opposite of your goal.

spacer.png

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, EasyWinEasy said:

I think 50 midwars before being allowed into Matchmaking is fair and good for new players

This is actually genius, even 20 is enough to discourage smurfing/trolling. Most casual mid wars matches are shorter than a regular MM game, and are more "fun" oriented. And unlike most suggestions I've read so far, it doesn't split the community.

Edited by Lunarios
Link to post
Share on other sites

This was brought up quite some time ago. I suggested 10 MW wins. However, it's a question of resources and I think there is something that FB is already working on to resolve the issues.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Idk what FB had in mind to counter smurfing but my suggestion would be like 100 MW games to play? Maybe too much but it is quite short matches so..

 

If there was someone who is completely new to the game it could be less since it could be seen if the IP/HWID is completely new.

Edited by Ladonien
Link to post
Share on other sites

How about making it so that new accounts cannot group queue unless it's MW?

- If one is introducing someone who's totally new to the game, it's gentler to start in MW anyway. It's not just easier to compensate for bad teammates, you also don't lose gold for dying which allows one to always have some impact.
- If someone is smurfing then they'll have to solo queue, which makes it more possible for the other team to win

Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, Sorais said:

How about making it so that new accounts cannot group queue unless it's MW?

- If one is introducing someone who's totally new to the game, it's gentler to start in MW anyway. It's not just easier to compensate for bad teammates, you also don't lose gold for dying which allows one to always have some impact.
- If someone is smurfing then they'll have to solo queue, which makes it more possible for the other team to win

Idk about you, but I learned DotA with a couple of friends who taught me how to play. I mean that was somewhat 15 years ago, but still.
If I would have had to play some "fun mode" which is nothing like the real thing, I might have not joined at all.

Today the situation is slightly different - most players that would come to HoN have at least tried a different Moba (which they didn't like or got enough of). So they already know the basics - they just need to learn how the game works and learn all the different heroes and items. However midwars doesn't teach them most of it. You might learn heroes, but you get the basics of a hero after a single game, you don't need to play 10, 20 or 100 games with it. You would also get a completely different idea of how to choose items, because MW is clearly different here. And of course the base game is totally different - you don't learn ward spots, map awareness, stacking, jungling, and so on - if you play MW.
All that it is, is a high entry burden. You basically force new players to learn a different game first because they can go through the already high entry burden of HoN.
DotA 2 forces players to play through a tutorial - which teaches them the basic. Of course every HoN player already knows everything there, but it only takes something around an hour to get through. But it still took me days to get over with it, simply because it was so boring and slow. If they would have forced me to play 5 hours of Battle Chess, I would probably not have tried it.

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Manu311 said:

If I would have had to play some "fun mode" which is nothing like the real thing, I might have not joined at all.

What do you mean MW is some "fun mode" which is nothing like the real thing. MW uses the same heroes, almost the same items. It's the same game on a different map. Don't tell me learning MW doesn't teach you FoC more than it teaches you (e.g.) Street Fighter, because that is an actual different game. Besides, even if it's different, so what? Lots of people enjoy MW and don't enjoy FoC. Who's to say you would not have fallen into that category?

Also, remember one of the biggest problems with MOBAs in general is the high learning curve. Lots of reviews have complained about it. Starting with FoC does you no favors. If I'm introducing anyone to the game these days, I'd start with MW - well actually, for players completely new to the genre, I'd start with AI games. But MW is next.

Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Sorais said:

What do you mean MW is some "fun mode" which is nothing like the real thing. MW uses the same heroes, almost the same items. It's the same game on a different map. Don't tell me learning MW doesn't teach you FoC more than it teaches you (e.g.) Street Fighter, because that is an actual different game. Besides, even if it's different, so what? Lots of people enjoy MW and don't enjoy FoC. Who's to say you would not have fallen into that category?

Also, remember one of the biggest problems with MOBAs in general is the high learning curve. Lots of reviews have complained about it. Starting with FoC does you no favors. If I'm introducing anyone to the game these days, I'd start with MW - well actually, for players completely new to the genre, I'd start with AI games. But MW is next.

I haven't said it doesn't teach you anything. I've acknowledged that you kinda learn the heroes. You also learn how some items work - however you don't learn how to decide which one to buy in Foc or how to behave there in general. I mean you can go dawn bringer or codex on basically everything in MW and it will work for the most part. There are rarely strategical decisions for both heroes and items in MW.
You'll probably learn more than in Street Fighter, but you'd also learn more in bot matches than in MW games!

And for an exchange, ask a couple of MW players if they would have joined the MW-train if they would have had to play 10 Foc-games before 😉. Or rather how they would have played those games. If you force players to play something they don't like, they will just grief - most will keep in within the rules, but that doesn't really make it better. You'll just ruin MW (instead of Foc) if you do this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Strongly disagree. You learn more about FoC vs. humans from MW than you do from AI matches. There isn't even AI bots for most heroes. "There are rarely strategical decisions for both heroes and items in MW" - maybe in the lower brackets. If you want to win at 2k+ MW MMR, you need to adapt (and Codex / Dawnbringer on every hero is not a good idea).

There are reasons to play MW first before FoC for new players. The reverse is less clear. Also I do know many of the MW people I play with are OK with playing casual mode. They largely play badly (by their MW standards), but they don't grief. Also note it's harder to grief a MW game than a FoC game, because it's easier to cover for your teammates. You are all in the same lane, you can intervene if they get jumped on, and if you can still vary your hero pick that's another angle from which you can help. In that sense MW is more resistant to being ruined than FoC.

I stand by my assessment that MW is the better map to start new players in, especially if they are new to the genre. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Manu311 said:

Idk about you, but I learned DotA with a couple of friends who taught me how to play. I mean that was somewhat 15 years ago, but still.
If I would have had to play some "fun mode" which is nothing like the real thing, I might have not joined at all.

Today the situation is slightly different - most players that would come to HoN have at least tried a different Moba (which they didn't like or got enough of). So they already know the basics - they just need to learn how the game works and learn all the different heroes and items. However midwars doesn't teach them most of it. You might learn heroes, but you get the basics of a hero after a single game, you don't need to play 10, 20 or 100 games with it. You would also get a completely different idea of how to choose items, because MW is clearly different here. And of course the base game is totally different - you don't learn ward spots, map awareness, stacking, jungling, and so on - if you play MW.
All that it is, is a high entry burden. You basically force new players to learn a different game first because they can go through the already high entry burden of HoN.
DotA 2 forces players to play through a tutorial - which teaches them the basic. Of course every HoN player already knows everything there, but it only takes something around an hour to get through. But it still took me days to get over with it, simply because it was so boring and slow. If they would have forced me to play 5 hours of Battle Chess, I would probably not have tried it.

 

 

"most players that would come to HoN have at least tried a different Moba"

You really never played a 1400 game.  New players when they are not trolls or smurfs have no ideia how to play the game. They will pick carrys as usual, choose a lane not caring about the team even if you try to help, push the lane, feed non stop, 0 awareness,  and most of the time they will quit. 

 

 

 

' you get the basics of a hero after a single game ' - Awesome the let's make new accounts play at least 1 game with each hero before join mmr, can be casual or MW it does not matter. 

 

You are missing the point here, if you had to play 5 hours of Battle Chess you would think 2x before create an account to troll or smurf.  And that's what the discussion is about. 

 

 

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Sorais said:

If you want to win at 2k+ MW MMR

I know that - but new players won't reach 2k mmr 😉.

1 hour ago, Sorais said:

Also note it's harder to grief a MW game than a FoC game

You think so? Just let yourself get hooked every time - just run in all the time. Pretty easy in MW, but you have a lot of walking and dead-time in Foc.
I've won plenty of games where someone would just run into the enemies all the time because it took a lot of time. In the end he had like 0/25, but every death just gave 100-150 gold.
In MW those numbers are a lot higher, respawns are way faster and the distance is pretty short as well.

1 hour ago, Aikhal said:

You really never played a 1400 game.  New players when they are not trolls or smurfs have no ideia how to play the game

I've played with players that weren't new and were 1250 pre-seasons because they were bad. And I have rarely ever encountered someone with absolutely no clue. Of course basically no one below gold rank has any map awareness or even knows the roles - but that doesn't prevent them from actually playing the game (in their bracket).

1 hour ago, Aikhal said:

' you get the basics of a hero after a single game ' - Awesome the let's make new accounts play at least 1 game with each hero before join mmr, can be casual or MW it does not matter. 

Imho a way better idea than forcing them to play MW. "Win a bot match with every single hero" will take at least 10 hours of playtime and actually be kinda fun (once).

1 hour ago, Aikhal said:

You are missing the point here, if you had to play 5 hours of Battle Chess you would think 2x before create an account to troll or smurf.  And that's what the discussion is about. 

I never argued against this. I know this would have the desired affect of reducing smurfs. What I'm arguing about is "we would loose the few new players we currently get".

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Manu311 said:

I've played with players that weren't new and were 1250 pre-seasons because they were bad. And I have rarely ever encountered someone with absolutely no clue. Of course basically no one below gold rank has any map awareness or even knows the roles - but that doesn't prevent them from actually playing the game (in their bracket).

What HoN doesn't have and desperately needs is moderation against refusal "to improve" or "team cooperation". I'm talking about players who will purposely stick to actions that the team doesn't approve of. For example running around the map underfed being already 0-5 and therefore feeding. See, League has a system against this. Their moderation takes into account certain factors that indicate a player is acting contrarian to what the team expects. 2-3 may start addressing what he does, result: mute everyone, don't do anything that's required to achieve goals, even feed by trying to gank when ganks are already disadvantageous and he is not getting support in ganking while continuing to his own thing. In League a player like that would get a warning/suspension and be motivated to cooperate. In HoN, beyond a few constants that count as griefing, a bitter bad player is allowed to throw and get away with it.

Link to post
Share on other sites

And how would you classify those actions? every game is different and sometimes afk farming may be trolling or may be the best curse of action to win the game. A lot of times lower mmr players will trashtalk or call troll a player who is legitimaly trying to win cuz they dont understand basic strategy or cuz they wanted you to die with them for no reason after they screw up, cuz despite being 100 mmr lower they think they know better, and then theres no surprise if the other player refuses to carry their team to victory. Thats what i call real toxicity.

Link to post
Share on other sites

If player starts typing 1000 word per minute and can't shut up -> suspension for being disruptive
If player enters more than x encounters without a care in the world and accrues more than x deaths -> suspension
If player doesn't understand lane mechanics and starts pushing lane to put carry at a disadvantage -> verbal warning -> suspension for repeat offenders
If player is repeatedly addressed in chat to cease performing actions that put team at a disadvantage resource-wise -> verbal warning -> suspension for repeat offenders.
Know-it-alls can be mitigated by educating them to follow the expected meta through suspensions. If the majority disagree with the know-it-all, the majority should be able to steer the lone player's actions. It is a team game. Therefore if a soloist player is instructed to join for the next objective, without a valid excuse, refusal should be met with verbal warnings and punishment for repeat offenders.
It's really not that difficult to have stricter rules than what we have now which gives trolls too much attack surface.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, twoscoopsREE said:

If player starts typing 1000 word per minute and can't shut up -> suspension for being disruptive
If player enters more than x encounters without a care in the world and accrues more than x deaths -> suspension
If player doesn't understand lane mechanics and starts pushing lane to put carry at a disadvantage -> verbal warning -> suspension for repeat offenders
If player is repeatedly addressed in chat to cease performing actions that put team at a disadvantage resource-wise -> verbal warning -> suspension for repeat offenders.
Know-it-alls can be mitigated by educating them to follow the expected meta through suspensions. If the majority disagree with the know-it-all, the majority should be able to steer the lone player's actions. It is a team game. Therefore if a soloist player is instructed to join for the next objective, without a valid excuse, refusal should be met with verbal warnings and punishment for repeat offenders.
It's really not that difficult to have stricter rules than what we have now which gives trolls too much attack surface.

Too controversial. Too ambiguous.

I am often accused for off-meta strategies, trolling, griefing, and everything your mind can think of.

One of my strategies was a 5-wave Night Hound Sui stack into self-t3 push into denial of enemy carry farm space.

Sometimes you need to push the carry lane, sometimes you want to.

Sometimes other players refuse to listen so you type a lot.

Sometimes entering the same scenario 15 times with the hope to win, only ending up with 15 deaths can be overly optimistic.

Sometimes the 1 player knows better than the other 4 players in the team of what should be done.

What you say is one sided to your train of thought and excludes opinions out of your scope of view.

The game is more than winning, it's about having fun while winning.

If you don't have fun while winning, your time is not well spent.

Your suggestions limit creativity and enforce a specific line of action - something I'm against.

If everyone follow the current meta, the meta will never change, and evolution shall cease.

 

Edited by Lunarios
  • Like 2
  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...