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4.9.2 - Pre-patch discussion


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1 hour ago, ElementUser said:

Nice meming, I guess? It doesn't add much to your cause when you're trying to convince me. It makes me laugh for a split second and that's about it. 

 

For rampage though, you'd be surprised how much your hero actually moves. It's a net buff, but it's subtle. 

Well on my side, I rolfed pretty hard reading this "patch notes". Some of them are just so hilarious. But as people say every joke has a bit of joke, rest is truth.

Rampage had this mechanic before and it's was nonfactor. I mean 1k units for 1 second cd is nothing. For example Nomad gets 100 charges for running same distance.
 

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Perfect patch!   - Stupid Artierlly nerfed (hero adds nothing to the game besides turtling and hiding) - Ardenaline nerf (Hero was banned permanetly. Ppl abused him to smurf up to legen

Official Patch Notes link:    I am trying something new this time - I released the patch notes a little earlier so that players have roughly 2 days (until March 24, 2021 at say, roughly 7pm

4.9.0 Lets give Flint truestrike aura so he got bullied for bying savage mace, because "herp, derp, why did you get it? you already have true strike!111" 4.9.2 Ok, lets nerf hell out the Flint. Ta

Rampage:

Not a buff but a huge nerf. With 500 move speed. You will need to move 2 seconds to reduce 1 cooldown. It's hard if you use attack - run - attack. Not mention the current E is the slow without knockback, so if rampage want to maxed his damage, he better attack enemy. 

And you cant reduce more than 2 seconds, because it require you to move 2k range, unless the enemy have the same move speed as you and cant be slowed, you cant reduce the cooldown more than 2 seconds.

As the resuit, you can only reduce maximum 1 seconds cooldown of this skill when it on cooldown by moving. Nerfing the cooldown E by 1 seconds and give it this passive is the worst trade. At Least the old E make sense when it knockback the enemy and require rampage to keep moving

the other rare case is rampage use Q to charge enemy while his E on cooldown. Not mention his Q also stun the enemy.

Edited by w3wstarboy
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4 hours ago, DemonSparda said:

Well on my side, I rolfed pretty hard reading this "patch notes". Some of them are just so hilarious. But as people say every joke has a bit of joke, rest is truth.

Rampage had this mechanic before and it's was nonfactor. I mean 1k units for 1 second cd is nothing. For example Nomad gets 100 charges for running same distance.
 

You really need to work on your attitude man. Especially if you want something to be changed in a different way...
I like the patchnotes, doesnt fix everything ofc (since it's also different meta in certain leagues). Overall a rly nice patch.

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I think flint needs a nerf, but this one is too strong, making him unplayable. I'd suggest removing the aura is enough, this way he'll be more like a support than a carry, which is not a good direction for a hero only with damage skills. 

 

Agree with the artillery nerf, I don't think its too strong, but it is really annyoying to play against, especially when the artillery is turtling in the base. It leads to boring 50 min games. 

 

and thanks for changing back the power supply, i hated the recent patch. It took away the early value of minor totems and the power supply itself became much less feasable on non support heroes. 

Edited by marine___
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Was hoping Elementals would inherit the onslaught state after splitting as well as the order, it's pretty below the belt for them to lose the state during onslaught as they split (considering deadlift heavily relies on his allies having great synergy with him).

Good job on deadlift so far as he's just a meme hero that hardly gets any attention.

Edit: Can't forget that the leash range for the state on deadlift himself is 1200, but the state on minions only has 1100, even in some cases on heroes if you cast it at max range while you have your back turned to them/they move really quickly as it's being casted, the state on the creeps will cancel instantly.

Edited by CarryByKilln
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If Cthu's W doesn't interrupt anymore, can you take a look at Rampage's W and Solstice's W? They're in the same ball park.

 

I agree heavily on Rampage. EUser tbh I feel like this should be added now because it applies to Rampage even more than Cthulhuphant. I actually disagree about Solstice though, keep the interruption.

And while I'm on the subject, I am a bit sus of Rampage's changes. You nerfed ghost marchers ms and made his E more reliant on distance traveled with 1 second additional cd. I generally trust your math/calculations, but it seems to me a bit off here at first blush?

 

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I think flint needs a nerf, but this one is too strong, making him unplayable. I'd suggest removing the aura is enough, this way he'll be more like a support than a carry, which is not a good direction for a hero only with damage skills. 

I also agree on this, mostly about the aura. I have always thought true strike aura does not suit Flint at all, thematically or playstyle wise. He is a carry right clicker, so he needs selfish spells not outright supportive ones. True strike should only apply to himself, nobody is going to draft him for this aura and tbh just feels so tacky. Make it an item or something. Also I would welcome slight Flint nerfs, but my knee jerk reaction is that no stun on lvl 1 hollow along with less damage is a lot even though I do like that it makes Flint think more about his level choice. I am willing to see it it in action but my initial reaction is that it could be much. I would rather test than speculate much though.


(Reaction / ramblings below)

Big hype for Cthulhu micro buffs. Interesting that it seems you made any damage trigger this regen, I would've went with something more conservative(auto-attacks only). Perhaps I am overestimating the regen rate but it seems pretty formidable for any damage to trigger it. In my mind, Cthulhu will have almost constant regen in a teamfight. Not only this, but these changes look to make him a slightly better jungler from lvl 1. And if it makes him a sufficiently sustainable jungler I predict a decent spike in pick rates just for that. Interested to test it out for sure, thanks for implementing some of my suggestions. I'll try to play Cthu in a variety of ways next patch if I get time.

Can't believe I witnessed an era where Soulstealer got buffs. Is he really behind the powercreep? Magic penetration seems totally crazy for such a good hero and with even more -armor. Keeping in mind this is at the same time where early armor items are being nerfed too. I will definitely start to play him again to see where he feels. He is my favorite hero in HoN I just usually dont play my "ez win" heroes so that's why I moved on from him. Maybe I have an outdated viewpoint but last I checked he was solid just underused for no reason. Personally I would say its because he is a classic glass cannon that requires skilled positioning or you feed.

HYPE FOR PLAGUE BUFFS! Mostly for base intelligence and Extinguish cooldown. I legit just played him the other day and was thinking "man, his autoattack damage sucks." I even though to myself in same game "man is Extinquish really 60s still? ugh." It really felt like sometimes I regret leveling it due to very lackluster lane presence lvl 1. If I recall, hasn't this cooldown been unchanged since his release? The cooldown on it is the definition of archaic IMO. Really glad to see it changed. Base STR is welcome for better lvl 1 lane presence, and the ulti cooldown I think is cherry on top. I would say PR is a serious threat now.


All in all, good patch! If I didn't mention something, it's because I liked it!

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Still don't understand ElementUser's point when he said it's intended that bubbles can still be stunned even when using take cover.

It's like saying using bkb doesn't save you from magic dps or using void doesn't save you from a physical projectile.

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28 minutes ago, Acnowlogia said:

Still don't understand ElementUser's point when he said it's intended that bubbles can still be stunned even when using take cover.

It's like saying using bkb doesn't save you from magic dps or using void doesn't save you from a physical projectile.

Your bug report was a same-frame case where you got stunned on the same frame Take Cover occurred. Same frame cases have unpredictable behaviours depending on the order of what actually happened (as decided by the game).

Please don't mislead others by your simple misinterpretation of my verdict on your bug report.

Edited by ElementUser
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What do you think of getting rid of tp scrolls and having everyone just have teleport as a cool down? The 50 cost seems pointless and only serves to have bad players not carrying them. I think it would improve the game a lot. 
 
Patch is good if unexciting. I know it’s been said that hon is in maintenance mode. I still hold out hope for exciting changes to the heroes I play. The patch that gave spellshards amplified creep damage made bubbles 10x more fun to play. I miss patches like 4.0 I think it was that had a ton of cool changes to heroes. Seems like it’s mostly just nerf patches these days, which again I know is to be expected. One can hope though. 
 

I’d love to see some of the cool things from dota like a permanent 3 item stash. An overhaul to the stat system in favor of talents is a pipe dream but one of the coolest things I think dota did. Some innovation would be awesome but I know is probably unrealistic. Other than that i think hon is in a pretty good place. My biggest issue is how much luck is still involved with runes but I don’t exactly have a solution ready for that one.  If I had my way they would just be removed or made far less effective. 
 

One more thing I wish was in the game is queuing for roles. I know it can be hard to find games as is but I don’t really think that’s an argument against it. Not having it just causes problems and trolling. I’m not exactly sure the specifics of how it would work as there’s no defined way to have lanes but I think something would be better than nothing. Match a mid, farm, support and 2 flex roles or something. 

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Pretty tiny change but the movement speed multiplier from apex's fire surge needs to be increased to 10000%, as it's necessary to make fire surge consistent with all other haste abilities, the movement speed multiplier is only 100%, which may seem fine but it means he gets very noticeably affected by flat move speed decreasers (like leech).

Every other ability of the sort is a 10000% multiplier which means even flat decreases aren't noticeable unless your base move speed is that of the likes of pebbles.

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Bringing nerf to forest creeps and nerfing Ophelia on top of that, on the other hand, I found it a little funny how you buffed Parasite. If you do not want us to play, it may be more logical to delete the hero directly. There are 5-6 people who play Ophelia (who can) already in the game. It would have been nice to do something for the Warbeast / Wildsoul instead of nerfing Ophelia (which could be a buff at some point, of course). Instead, I really respect your involvement of Draconis more into the game.
Besides, Behemonth's role as suicide will get really hard.

 

In addition to these, I think there is no sense of nerf to be made to Artilery, while you bring nerf to Artilery, you also nerf all of the armor items. This will preserve the imbalance that already exists.

It's already funny how a hero with only Ghost Marchers and Knuckles 5 melts 1.5k hp.

Do you plan to advertise in the future, let me ask this for the future of the game.

Unfuckwithable.

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I dont understand why fb got nerf in ultimate skill without increase the damage or decrease cast skill time maybe? Im agree if his 2nd skill got nerf but nerf for increase cd on ultimate skill its really bad i guess

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Thanks EU!

Was wondering this for eternity, what are the core things you based on when you make balance change?
Ofc it's statistics, but like what drive you to issue those specific changes among so many other alternatives?

Out of curiosity question.
Thank you for the uncountable list of balance changes you have made!

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13 minutes ago, Acnowlogia said:

Thanks EU!

Was wondering this for eternity, what are the core things you based on when you make balance change?
Ofc it's statistics, but like what drive you to issue those specific changes among so many other alternatives?

Out of curiosity question.
Thank you for the uncountable list of balance changes you have made!

Gakky u good bro?

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2 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Latest updates to the patch notes. 

 

Thanks for all your feedback! 

 

 

Thanks for the update and thanks again , i really like the reduction cost ! 

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Just a small thing regarding Klanx - making his Lackey apply splash damage (even as slight as 33% out of 15/30/45/60) will make him push the lane when trying to last-hit creeps during the laning phase if he has this skill leveled. Since this skill is used for both enemy harass and QoL last-hit improvement, making it apply splash damage is actually a nerf to the hero as it limits the strategies available to him during the laning phase.

I think an easy fix to this would be to make this skill toggle-able (like Legionnaire's Spin), giving the player control of when to push the lane and when to hold the lane at a static position. (Other examples of such behaviours include Moon Queen's Multi-Strike toggle, Zehpyr's ability to consume his cyclones thus holding the lane equilibrium, Lord Salforis' Dark Lord's Presence toggle, Maliken W switching between high/low autoattack DPS modes, etc.)

Edited by Lunarios
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Hey, EU. Thanks for the latest update of the patch but I believe the patch notes regarding Rampage haven't updated yet.

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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First impressions:

- Soon to be glorious LOLPHELIA. Hero was already below average, gets hit with more nerfs. Creeps were already slower than most heroes, now they're even slower. It's like forcing her to get Energizer, except she also needs Ring of Sorcery & Astrolabe & Staff of the Master. So yeah. Ability to Command more creeps is "nice", but it's not like most of the creeps that become viable are actually worth Commanding. Only exception is the Wolf Commander.

- Hate the Circe change, her illusions are what makes her special and not being able to spam them is very bad for the experience.

- Happy to see nerfs to Flint & Artillery.

- Nerfs to armor items are rather disappointing. It's most meaningful in MW and it's not like physical damage was weak in that format (c.f. Artillery being one of the most oppressive heroes in the game regardless of how much the other team stacks armor).

- Grimore change is funky. Imagine using Thunderbringer ult twice with it. It lasts 15s too, long enough for it to affect the same spell twice, and it's on the item that give s-20% cooldown. One thing I really wonder is whether it works with Harkon's / Ravenor autoattacks. Could be very dangerous if it does, since it'd make it a respectable item for autoattack carries.

- Adrenaline needed changes but idk how they will work out.

No real comment on the other changes.

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10 hours ago, Lunarios said:

Just a small thing regarding Klanx - making his Lackey apply splash damage (even as slight as 33% out of 15/30/45/60) will make him push the lane when trying to last-hit creeps during the laning phase if he has this skill leveled. Since this skill is used for both enemy harass and QoL last-hit improvement, making it apply splash damage is actually a nerf to the hero as it limits the strategies available to him during the laning phase.

I think an easy fix to this would be to make this skill toggle-able (like Legionnaire's Spin), giving the player control of when to push the lane and when to hold the lane at a static position. (Other examples of such behaviours include Moon Queen's Multi-Strike toggle, Zehpyr's ability to consume his cyclones thus holding the lane equilibrium, Lord Salforis' Dark Lord's Presence toggle, Maliken W switching between high/low autoattack DPS modes, etc.)

Perhaps in the future on a per-hero basis. I've already locked the patch in & I'm not making any more changes if I can help it.

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1 hour ago, Sorais said:

First impressions:

- Soon to be glorious LOLPHELIA. Hero was already below average, gets hit with more nerfs. Creeps were already slower than most heroes, now they're even slower. It's like forcing her to get Energizer, except she also needs Ring of Sorcery & Astrolabe & Staff of the Master. So yeah. Ability to Command more creeps is "nice", but it's not like most of the creeps that become viable are actually worth Commanding. Only exception is the Wolf Commander.

- Hate the Circe change, her illusions are what makes her special and not being able to spam them is very bad for the experience.

- Happy to see nerfs to Flint & Artillery.

- Nerfs to armor items are rather disappointing. It's most meaningful in MW and it's not like physical damage was weak in that format (c.f. Artillery being one of the most oppressive heroes in the game regardless of how much the other team stacks armor).

- Grimore change is funky. Imagine using Thunderbringer ult twice with it. It lasts 15s too, long enough for it to affect the same spell twice, and it's on the item that give s-20% cooldown. One thing I really wonder is whether it works with Harkon's / Ravenor autoattacks. Could be very dangerous if it does, since it'd make it a respectable item for autoattack carries.

- Adrenaline needed changes but idk how they will work out.

No real comment on the other changes.


For Circe ,The mana change is actually a good thing and not that big of a deal . Her cooldown stays the same .

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Dear ElementeUser, the nitro hero has recently been overhauled, but his performance still leaves a little to be desired.


(q) Basillist - It could be implemented, after an amount of shrapnel received the opponent is debuffed. because this skill has a lot of relevance only when you use your last or at the beginning of the game.
(w) BlastOFF - I would like to see a better scale of the range of this skill - he already has a big punishment on his (e) when the heroes are close.
(r) Overdrive - staff master - He could shoot even when stunned.

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4 hours ago, DjuKeD said:

@ElementUser Hey, I made a post in general as well, is there any way I can get in touch with you? Email or something, also I wouldnt mind if you added me on Discord,
Kind regards,

Yoshi

AkA DjuKeD

Linkaro#0394

Try inviting yourself on HoN Official first before getting in touch with ElementUser in this regard. Here's the link: http://heroesofnewerth.com/discord

Good luck.

 

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If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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