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Tome of Elements - reduce grief by removing the constant exp


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Hello,

in recent times I've bought a couple of Tome of Elements and noticed there is a problem in some games. Probably every support that has played in any rank below Diamond (without stomping), will probably already know what I'm talking about: AFK farmers that try to maximize their level instead of playing the game.

Basically it happens every few games that there's someone that usually plays completely on their own - pushes lanes, farmes jungle for a long time, just so they get overfarmed and can just overrun enemies.
That's probably a questionable playstyle by itself, but it kinda works sometimes, so it's kinda find. However what I want to focus on in this thread is their behavior towards Tome of the Elements.
A lot of times those people think "more exp = I'm stronger" and "200 gold is so cheap, it doesn't even matter". And they just keep buying the item which is imho intended for heroes that have fallen behind in levels (primarily supports), which leads to those people not being able to buy it.
Basically half the games I was underleveled, forced me to just repeatably opening the shop and basically camping the item so I could buy it before people that are 10 levels above me, just so I could get those 3 level ups for 200 gold (I'm not exaggerating!").

So I'm not entirely sure how I would fix this issue, since there are a couple of options.

Basically just removing the 300 exp would improve the item for me already, even thought it's a straight nerf! (I guess you should also prevent people from buying it if they can't get any use out of it).
To make the nerf less noticable, the 60% could be increased to 67% (or 2/3) of the average.
By the nature of these people reducing the 300 exp - instead of removing it - won't work. I'm pretty sure 80% of those would still pay the 200 gold if it's just 50 exp.

I also thought of alternatives that are probably more difficult to implement like "if someone above the average uses the item, everyone else gets (60% * 25% = ) 15% the experience this player has above the average". But that would have other implications that are beyond the scale of this problem.

Since I know this problem does probably not happen in higher ranks and (hopefully) never in competitive play, this change might be slighly bad for those cases.
I'm not really aware of many cases where a higher leveled played would need to buy this item, but it could make a difference if someone can switch from level 15 to 16. So I've thought about this case, but I don't have a solution. However I think those cases are pretty rare and they can probably be ignored in this case.

So to summarize it once again, my suggestion is to:
1. Remove the constant 300 xp
2. Change the 60% to 67%
3. Make the item unpurchasable (or unusable) if it would not have an effect on your hero

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Do people actually do this?

 

The point of the flat XP was to make it an option for a really important level 10 -> 11 or level 15 -> 16 levelup so it's not 100% a "use this on your lowest level on your team" (even if that's 99% of the use case). It's a tactical option available in competitive play.

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56 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

Do people actually do this?

 

The point of the flat XP was to make it an option for a really important level 10 -> 11 or level 15 -> 16 levelup so it's not 100% a "use this on your lowest level on your team" (even if that's 99% of the use case). It's a tactical option available in competitive play.

I thought only very few people would do this and I haven't actually verified it in most cases (as in watch replays). But when I only stacked early game and am 4 level below the lowest other player in my team, I don't see a good reason (as long as we're not having any action) why the Tome should be bought from anyone else.
There were also cases where I actually asked someone I saw buying it on level 22 when I was level 12, why he bought it. And he just answered: "Because I can" .... Well yeah - I mean he was fully equiped and probably didn't have anything else to buy, but still, I could have needed those levels.

As I mentioned, I kinda expected it to be a tactical option for competitive play and those important level-jumps, but I have no idea how often that even happens there.
Maybe there are "workarounds" like changing it so that can be use on others and only lower leveled heroes can buy it. That way you could still use it in competitive plays, just loose a little QOL.

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10 hours ago, Manu311 said:

Maybe there are "workarounds" like changing it so that can be use on others and only lower leveled heroes can buy it. That way you could still use it in competitive plays, just loose a little QOL.

This workaround makes it really bad. Currently one of the benefits of Tome is that one of your higher GPM/XPM heroes can help someone who is struggling.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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9 hours ago, Hubaris said:

This workaround makes it really bad. Currently one of the benefits of Tome is that one of your higher GPM/XPM heroes can help someone who is struggling.

That still works.
I didn't mean that you can't use it on yourself, I meant that you could use it on yourself or others. Basically the changes with that workaround would be:

* You have to click one additional time (double clicking for use on self)
* The lower leveled heroes have the choice who is going to get the boost
* The lower leveled hero who chooses has to pay the 200g, not the one who might receive the boost

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just make the item automatically granting the scaling EXP to the lowest leveled hero on the team regardless whoever on the team consumes it and gives the hero consuming it a flat EXP. The change I propose probably causes inflated EXP but it possibly solves the problem this thread introduced.

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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11 minutes ago, datfizh said:

Just make the item automatically granting the scaling EXP to the lowest leveled hero on the team regardless whoever on the team consumes it and gives the hero consuming it a flat EXP. The change I propose probably causes inflated EXP but it possibly solves the problem this thread introduced.

But it introduces a different problem.
Maybe you have a carry 4 levels below the average but a support that is 4½ levels below the average. Your solution would prevent the carry from getting the experience.

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5 hours ago, Manu311 said:

But it introduces a different problem.
Maybe you have a carry 4 levels below the average but a support that is 4½ levels below the average. Your solution would prevent the carry from getting the experience.

Well, that's true. Still, I think the current Tome also faces the same issue you mentioned, if I'm not missing something.

I believe the initial issue of this thread is about the carry purchasing Tome when support needs the exp so I think what I proposed band-aids that issue, if I'm not missing anything.

The idea I proposed rewards carry with flat exp and it helps support to catch up without spending the gold buying Tome, if I use the scenario from the initial issue of this thread.

If I may ask about something a bit technical about current Tome, which exp applies first? The flat one or the scaling one?

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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2 hours ago, datfizh said:

Well, that's true. Still, I think the current Tome also faces the same issue you mentioned, if I'm not missing something.

The current Tome can also be bought be underleveled carries, so it doesn't.

The flat experience doesn't really help the second-lowest-player (aka carry) to catch up and that's all he could get if I understand you correctly.

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2 minutes ago, Manu311 said:

The current Tome can also be bought be underleveled carries, so it doesn't.

The flat experience doesn't really help the second-lowest-player (aka carry) to catch up and that's all he could get if I understand you correctly.

Well, indeed I missed something. Thanks for re-clarifying things up for me. I agree with you regarding that issue from my proposed idea, it sure worsens the Tome when that situation happens. In the end, I think the current Tome is fine as it is.

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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