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On 2/17/2021 at 7:24 AM, Diabetis said:

Ophelia is one of the most broken/insane heroes... hardest hero in the game is one of the best. That should never be the case.

Ophelia got stuff semi-irrelevant to her, nerfed. Hero is still way too strong because of the fact that there is almost no counter play to somebody running at your lane with 3 big creeps with auras, stuns/slows .. etc.

I firmly believe that everybody can play Ophelia nowadays because of how strong of a hero she is. So you can't any longer say that the hero is great when played by few specific players. 

So yeah, I really hope something gets to be done regarding Ophelia in next patches. Something more than what has already been done. Maybe something indirect like - just remove creep auras. They were added for cosmetic reasons anyway...

Yeah nerf ophelia so bad..

Winning rate and picking rate are dropping now 

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Its ironic that ophelia that is the most legit jungle hero are getting nerfed. First, its a relatively hard hero to play compared to heros such as draco, legio, wb, salo and para. And as pointed out above, she has a MUCH SMALLER window for making an impact on the game compared to the other jungle heros which scale pritty well, maybe not para so much but he is already a toxic hero that is banned in most games for that reason.

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I really don't like the changes to the void talisman and mana battery. 

I mean who knows by what parameters it's decided. 
Any argument can be made in any one direction. Yes the mana battery gave a good stat boost but it was split up between 3 attributes and had a terrible upgrade path, especially for heroes that are considered carries. What weighs heavier? I don't know man, I just felt it was a smooth transition before. Like you could go to a lane with its core components and upgrade into it if it was necessary/depending on who you face. Now it's jsut one extra slot to counter Armadon or something like this. Too situational. 

IMO the Void Talisman now becomes a pure escape mechanic item that you're afraid of putting on while in a fight where you stand your ground because you don't know if the lowered damage will mean you're more likely to die or not compared to not getting that + -5 negative armor but being hit by the physical damage. 

Also increased cost+downgraded stats on an item that has generally seen an increase in cost and nerfs ever since it was added is a bit lame in general. 
Just doesn't feel like a great item anymore becomes far more situation and geared towards supports.  

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On 2/10/2021 at 3:04 PM, Lunarios said:

I really liked and enjoyed the changes in this patch, except for one thing - Orb of Zamos / Grave Locket change.

I don't know how many people noticed this, but I support at least a quarter of my played games, and this change was quite huge for me personally.

I think I understand the underlying logic - trying to move the support away from passively leeching neutral creeps along with the main farmer - and into a more active playstyle, assisting and ganking lanes. But, I think the nerf was too heavy. I already struggle as a support to acquire gold, some supports are more lucky than others as they have farming mechanics (Rhapsody, Nymphora), so the problem is not very significant for them, but other supports such as Ichor or Succubus are in quite a difficult position right now in regards to attaining gold. I was using the Orb of Zamos / Grave Locket mechanic as a main source of gold income for those supports lacking in farming mechanics, as you were able to acquire ~300-400 gold from a fully stacked jungle, which now turned into ~50-100 gold. Before, I was buying Orb of Zamos and upgrading it into Grave Locket, but now I find myself buying Orb of Zamos and selling it after 20-30 minutes for the extra 150 gold, and I'd rather save the 500 gold used to upgrade it to Grave Locket to buy something else.

Aside from this matter I think everything else is perfect.


I explained the issues of this item and its impossibility to balance it properly without affecting the meta or making it useless long ago. (It needs to pay for itself in relative short time for your team not to get snowballed but in the long run it's an absolute beast no matter what).
And you're right on everything.

I didn't think of it much but it's the absolutely worst change possible but it's sadly the fault of the item and our own egos (people not wanting to support even with it, especially in lower brackets).


Now the support hero is conditioned even more to stay in lane. 


Before the item was introduce in the first place you had a lot more of a diverse meta and the possibility of a support to pick a wide variety of items at the start of the game.  From the initial bottle to the carry (which now is impossible due to its 650 cost) to boots for roaming and stacking to ring of teacher for mana support, etc.  
With the introduction of the item and now this change to it we're still stuck with buying the item but now leaving your lane to ward, stack, roam, gank, scout or anything else is now punished even more harshly even after you acquire some basic items after the Orb/Grave Locket.



I don't see much of a solution. The item is absolutely overpowered from any way you look at it (and thus absolutely necessary and bought in 95% cases by supports unless you plan to get a first blood) but this nerf just makes it worse as it conditions the player even more - the conditioning that the item creates being the terrible thing about it to begin with. 



_____

Bit of TLDR stuff: 

I have no idea how to do this well but this change should be reverted.
In the very long term pure supports should perhaps have more skills akin to Glacius and Empath global auras that (global or not) scale either with the heroes they support or as in the case of Glacius aura at least support other skills that scale with the heroes level and items. Blitz is a good example with his speed boost being a good addition that scales indirectly with any of the heroes capabilities that it's used on and it doesn't require gold to be effective. 

Other semi supports require gold because they need to get im position or lack escape mechanisms and perhaps this is part of the more systemic issue. 

To me it's fine that supports get less gold and I'd even remove the orb. But this would require supports to die less too IMO. They should all have some kind of escape mechanic or a trick up their sleeve and so while getting less gold they should also lose less gold and preferably always stay in the back lane. But that's a much more long term idea. 

Edited by Ondis
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I don't have any strong wills in regards to where I see this item, or any strong connection to me - in the end I just want to enjoy the game; and to enjoy the game I need certain items to have a certain feeling.

The current state of Orb of Zamos just pushes me to be more "greedy" and "selfish" in regards to gold. I find myself fighting with the main carry over the pull camps as I need the gold from the last hits from neutral creeps; I find myself going in for last-hits on kills if possible. I'd give them to the carry, but I really need the gold 🙂

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