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What do you think of Adrenalin new buff?


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Personally, I feel that the hero is too strong early game to the point it's kinda broken.

- Too strong Q, impossible to dodge, fast cooldown, so easily out-harrass many heroes like devo, bombardier, gravekeeper etc... who are already falling behind as middle hero in current meta.

- Strong pulling ability, easily manipulate enemy's position once in range so way too easy to set up a gank

- Instantaneous animation combined with super high maneuverability makes him extremely hard to be controlled. Give a significant edge over nukers like hag, ellonia, pyromancer... who need to hit spells to keep the laning pressure

- Ultimate is an interesting rework, which can breath new lives to current meta. But combining with other broken spells make the hero too imbalanced to play against.

 

Today I had a chance to play against this adrenalin, who was played by a standard 1700 mmr player. Our team of four (solstice, bombardier, nighthound, blitz) with 3 of us at least 1900 mmr set up a gank against adrenalin mid. He was able to pull off 1 ultimate and a Q combo that hits all four opponents, resulting in 1 dead and 3 with 100-200 hp remaining. The gold was quite balanced as 5 people were between 200-400 gpm. And I think that happened around level 11. Imagine if a 1700 mmr guy can almost 1v4 other players of much higher rating with adrenalin, then what would happen if he plays against players of the same bracket?

 

What do you guys think about the hero?

 

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I think you're talking about me - I was in that game. And as far as Adrenaline players go, I'm far from standard 🙂

If I may add I spent over 200 hours practicing this specific hero ever since it was patched on its nerfed form, and I pulled out the moves accurately. You did little counterplay to try to counter my weaknesses, and played into my strengths.

 

If I may add very easy counters on how to beat Adrenaline:

-Moira (leaves him completely helpless, as the hero has almost no autoattack damage)

-Deadwood (Naturally high strength gain, being a STR hero, with incredible STR boost during ultimate leaves him a prime Deadwood target for ultimate)

-Try to attack him from multiple angles (Don't bunch up into 1 group - something you did quite often in that game) You wouldn't try to attack Armadon in the back, group up during a Tempest enemy in play, so why did you do so in that specific game?

-Nullfire blade or Magebane with Nullfire (The hero relies on Mana as a primary source of damage)

-Predator (Adrenaline has high health pool which benefits from Predator life steal), Predator's Magic Immunity

-Any form of silence (Adrenaline has little to no attack damage to be afraid of)

-Any form of restrain (Prisoner, KotF, Predator jump)

-Shrunken Head (May I add that neither of you in the said game had Shrunken Heads or any form of Magic Immunity despite the game lasting over 30 minutes)

-Fayde (Ulti removes 30% of Current HP)

-Spell Sunder

-Lodestone (Removes all armor/magic armor)

-Kane ultimate (forces Adrenaline to not cast spells and attack with low attack damage that he has)

-Succubus (Sleep/Ultimate)

 

I did many games where I had bloodbaths and very great streaks of victory with Adrenaline before the buffs at play, but no one talked about that. Now that he has been raised in power levels above 28% win-rate suddenly he's too good to be true? What about 15-0 Tremble players, 15-0 Shadowblades, Qi players that counter-play enemy hardcarries?

 

I recommend trying to play Adrenaline yourself, or play against a player that hasn't spent the last few weeks practicing Adrenaline to perfection.

Edited by Lunarios
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Well the point of balance is that Adrenaline is supposed to be resilient against pubtrains/fights with multiple heroes. Before he was too weak against it such that it never leveraged this aspect of him.

 

However it has only been a day - we need time for it to stabilize. I'm sure we can actually find a point of balance for this hero that also leaves him fun to play with healthy levels of counterplay without frustration factors, it will take a bit of time.

Edited by ElementUser
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12 hours ago, ElementUser said:

Well the point of balance is that Adrenaline is supposed to be resilient against pubtrains/fights with multiple heroes. Before he was too weak against it such that it never leveraged this aspect of him.

 

However it has only been a day - we need time for it to stabilize. I'm sure we can actually find a point of balance for this hero that also leaves him fun to play with healthy levels of counterplay without frustration factors, it will take a bit of time.

Yes I completely agree, that rework sounds like something potentially fun and creative. It's just that we need more perspective on the current hero performance so I created this thread to discuss. I haven't had the chance to play against the hero a lot but will try to play a few more and give some more constructive comments.

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12 hours ago, Lunarios said:

I think you're talking about me - I was in that game. And as far as Adrenaline players go, I'm far from standard 🙂

If I may add I spent over 200 hours practicing this specific hero ever since it was patched on its nerfed form, and I pulled out the moves accurately. You did little counterplay to try to counter my weaknesses, and played into my strengths.

 

If I may add very easy counters on how to beat Adrenaline:

-Moira (leaves him completely helpless, as the hero has almost no autoattack damage)

-Deadwood (Naturally high strength gain, being a STR hero, with incredible STR boost during ultimate leaves him a prime Deadwood target for ultimate)

-Try to attack him from multiple angles (Don't bunch up into 1 group - something you did quite often in that game) You wouldn't try to attack Armadon in the back, group up during a Tempest enemy in play, so why did you do so in that specific game?

-Nullfire blade or Magebane with Nullfire (The hero relies on Mana as a primary source of damage)

-Predator (Adrenaline has high health pool which benefits from Predator life steal), Predator's Magic Immunity

-Any form of silence (Adrenaline has little to no attack damage to be afraid of)

-Any form of restrain (Prisoner, KotF, Predator jump)

-Shrunken Head (May I add that neither of you in the said game had Shrunken Heads or any form of Magic Immunity despite the game lasting over 30 minutes)

-Fayde (Ulti removes 30% of Current HP)

-Spell Sunder

-Lodestone (Removes all armor/magic armor)

-Kane ultimate (forces Adrenaline to not cast spells and attack with low attack damage that he has)

-Succubus (Sleep/Ultimate)

 

I did many games where I had bloodbaths and very great streaks of victory with Adrenaline before the buffs at play, but no one talked about that. Now that he has been raised in power levels above 28% win-rate suddenly he's too good to be true? What about 15-0 Tremble players, 15-0 Shadowblades, Qi players that counter-play enemy hardcarries?

 

I recommend trying to play Adrenaline yourself, or play against a player that hasn't spent the last few weeks practicing Adrenaline to perfection.

What you proposed are ways to kill an adrenalin in combat. While it is true that adrenalin is quite tough during teamfight (but counterable as well as most other heroes), it is only one aspect that makes the hero seems overpowered. The other aspect is that the laning pressure of the hero is too big. The list of heroes you suggested are not suitable for the laning phase, with the only exception of fayde and succubus. Fayde will be obliterated in a match-up against adre, while succubus is a niche hero that can outperform most middle heroes to begin with but will scale down later in the game.

What I am seeing from the current Adrenalin is that it has too much advantage early game and can still scale up decently mid-game onward. From a first encounter, it makes me feel like the hero is comparable to the original version since introduction, which was the reason why the hero was over-abused (at least in SEA client), and a reason why I have never tried the hero, cuz broken heroes are boring for me.

That being said, I still need to check adrenalin players in higher rating to see whether my feeling is reasonable.

Edited by Acnowlogia
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Pre-nerf benzington was able to stun / burst the whole team with his Q before. This is even worse on paper. You don't just replace "frustration factor" with something that lets you cast Q 10 times with the right timing. You replaced 1v1 / 2v1 lane frustration factor with teamfight wrecking kind of frustration factor (but maybe in 1900 games teams will be coordinated enough to counterplay so it's k, amirite). And it's not like adrenaline can be overcome with team coordination, no. It can trap half the enemy team and go nuts on them with ultimate buffs/benefits similar to chronos in some ways.

This design will age like milk.

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