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Important: Can we do something vs. High MMR Leavers?!


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Hi all,

Hi Eu,

yesterday a specific high MMR left the game after 5min, since getting rekt mid. He lost 2x0.4 mmr which is neglectable. Today same guy got twice into my game, asking for an instant rmk, cause he would only gain 0.4mmr. He twice left the game via "rmk or i leave", what he then also did. Could we please just add a basic -10mmr, when a player leaves. Why is this related to what he wins or gains? It does not make sense at all. Could we just get a method to counter this behavior. 

 

Thx 

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I believe the player does get -10 mmr if he leaves even though his original mmr loss would have been -0.4

 

E: I may be wrong, maybe its just double your initial mmr loss.

Edited by ScrubFactory
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Yes i hope EU comments on that issue. Its fine if the ask for a remake. However, besides the rmk+leave topic, its not the first time the Legendary insta mid caller gets rekt and leaves with an comic such as "lol -1 mmr". Hope, we can implement a fixxed -mmr asap.  

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I don't get why his MMR doesn't move further. The MMR overall is supposed to be equal, right? 

 

5*X-MMR ~ 5* Y-MMR = +/- 50.

So why do high ranked players get less mmr?

This would help solve the smurf issue too, alot of them play low ranks cause they even after waiting for a long time get nothing for their games, see no progress.


Just let them gain the same amount of mmr or lose the same, why not? 

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3 hours ago, Ondis said:

I don't get why his MMR doesn't move further. The MMR overall is supposed to be equal, right? 

 

5*X-MMR ~ 5* Y-MMR = +/- 50.

So why do high ranked players get less mmr?

This would help solve the smurf issue too, alot of them play low ranks cause they even after waiting for a long time get nothing for their games, see no progress.


Just let them gain the same amount of mmr or lose the same, why not? 

One couId argue that it's not correct for an immortaI pIayer to win 5mmr in a game against diamond pIayers.

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This discussion is not related to the question whether someone should earn x mmr related to his own MMR, but instead that the leaver-punishment shouldnt be linked to potential gain/loss of mmr within a game. 

Why should leaver punishment be related to the gain/loss? It encourages people who are off the medium mmr of a game to just simply leave as there isnt a punishment at all. 

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Why don't they implement a timed ban from queing if you disconnect from a game? 

Im sure HoN had this years ago if im not mistaken

 

 

Or a leave limit threshold in CoN (E.g. Leaving 10 games results in a ban from CoN Matchmaking)

 

 

Edited by `Geminai
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Hi Pesti,

i think its not allowed to point out people so i wont confirm here. Nevertheless it is not only 1 guy but more who tend to do it in high mmr. The most frustrating thing thereby is, that it is hard to report as leaving as such for once isnt banable. So somehow you need to track a certain person to justify that he does in highly frequent manner. 

So there i personally would high appreciate an automatic punishment for the related people by heavily reducing their mmr with each leave or a block of some minutes to join the next game. 

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On 2/1/2021 at 6:06 PM, Froschbein said:

One couId argue that it's not correct for an immortaI pIayer to win 5mmr in a game against diamond pIayers.

It is because the only way he'd win 5 mmr is if he was allied with a bunch of low level diamonds and the other 5 diamonds were top level on the border of crossing over ranks.  


Its the total MMR that matters ultimately. 

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12 hours ago, Physiker said:

This discussion is not related to the question whether someone should earn x mmr related to his own MMR, but instead that the leaver-punishment shouldnt be linked to potential gain/loss of mmr within a game. 

Why should leaver punishment be related to the gain/loss? It encourages people who are off the medium mmr of a game to just simply leave as there isnt a punishment at all. 

Of course it's related. The reason why they do it is because their games don't feel rewarding.
Now you could "increase the punishment". But my solution is to increase the potential reward and the potential loss so as to wiggle a carrot infront and not just the stick behind. 

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Imo the whole Dcing shit should get solved a little more diffrent.


The Leaver should gain the Minus from each player of the team that stays.

In a normal balanced game, one team gets +25 MMR for winning and the other gets -25mmr for losing.

If you now leave a match, the leaver should get his -5 + the -2,5 from each other teammate which would be -15 total.

If another person leaves, the new leaver  gets the other -2,5 from anyone else that stays, which would be -12,5 total.

In this case the people that stay get -2,5 in a 4v5, or -0 in a 3v5.

You can do the same, if you win the games. +7 if you win a 4v5. +9 if you win a 3v5.

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5 hours ago, `Geminai said:

Why don't they implement a timed ban from queing if you disconnect from a game? 

Im sure HoN had this years ago if im not mistaken

Or a leave limit threshold in CoN (E.g. Leaving 10 games results in a ban from CoN Matchmaking)

There is a temporary ban if somebody leaves 2 games in a row. But it only counts from the moment he gets terminated from the first game. For 2 consecutive leaves, its 6 hours ban, for 3 consecutive leaves, the time ban is like 12 hours? Not sure.

 

Also, there are problems with the way MMR is counted, indeed, and it gives rise to the situations you mentioned above. I personally would like something like Dota 2 ladder. There should be separated solo rank and team rank MMR, and then the scaling of MMR for solo ranks can be less broad (e.g from 1 to 5 per game instead of 0.4 to 4 per game) and that would solve the issue with people leaving in low MMR games. It also solves problem with smurfs abusing lower ranked teammates as a boosting force to reach higher MMR, as a very popular case i'm sure everybody knows with the donkey clan.

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We do have plans to address HoN's problem of account value since it went F2P. An improved leaver system is also planned to be addressed - however, there were numerous issues HoN has that stalled progress on this & took resources away from working on this.

We have no ETA on when these will be worked on as systems-related changes are always complex & require a lot of time and dev resources - but it is on the radar.

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edit: Tried to develop my earlier ideas but there's actually  problems with them. I don't know why I didn't think of this earlier but obviously there would be a kind of reverse smurfing then where instead of wanting to stay "low" so you can win vs nubs, you'd have the issue of people boosting other peoples accounts and the higher ranked players would start getting annoyed with what are essentially low ranked players being boosted into their brackets.
 

Still, at least people would feel it's rewarding to try and play good rather than being feeling the game is pointless and leaving it. 

What's worse, a bunch high MMRs playing with one lower one that's boosted or a bunch of lower MMRs playing with a high one that leaves because there's no point in them trying harder and no big consequence for leaving. 

In the first one the guy is still playing. In the second one they leave. So it might be worth it? 

Edited by Ondis
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