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Cleaver or Tclaw/Hypercrown?


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With the Elder buff and Hypercrown nerf, what do people consider to be the better build for the following heroes in terms of Tclaw/Hyper v.s. Cleaver

1. Chronos

2. Wildsoul 

(WS can also go mock, so wouldn't mind hearing thoughts on this too)

Edited by AgentZer0
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I don't think EP nerf hits Chronos in any way, it's merely -5 damage, -5 attack speed +3% damage taken and +200 gold. For Chronos, the damage taken is negligent as he should be hitting enemies within his ultimate where he takes little damage anyway, and for Chronos specifically its a "Jungle Farm" enabling item, so I don't think the nerfs affect the item choice for Chronos.

Regarding Hypercrown I did not see any changes in the patch notes to Hypercrown/Thunderclaw, maybe I missed something? But, because of the Searing Light/Dawnbringer/Grimoire nerfs, Hyper/Tclaw should be the superior choice over Dawnbringer in farming stacks, as the searing effect no longer propagates to other nearby enemies - I think it's also an indirect buff to Mock, as ever since Dawnbringer was introduced Mock kind of lost its place in the farm efficiency spot.

I don't play with Wildsoul so I'm not gonna comment on him at all, but regarding EP it's still gonna be a very strong pick on heroes that need it, and a less of a stronger pick on heroes that don't need it and just picked it up because of the trend. Mostly Agility heroes with low health pools, such as Moon Queen, Nomad, Scout, Silhouette or specifically Berzerker which already takes +15% damage taken from his Ultimate. The heroes that will keep using it IMO are heroes that are already beefy or have some protection mechanisms, such as Chronos, Swiftblade, Maliken, Predator, Klanx, etc.

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You go TC on chronos over cIeaver because you want the attackspeed to proc his stun. On wiIdsouI mock is best option because he is tanky in uItimate-form. Iive Ionger with mock = more dmg.

In my opinion that is of course.

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Not the best wildsoul player, but always preferred cleaver build over the bear mock. While mock is highly annoying on bobo I consider it as overrated. Can't understand it being picked up on any hero considering farming speed being worse than with a cleaver. 

The only situation I would pick up a mock is if the enemy team has lots of PK heroes.

 

I also prefer TC on chronos.

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4 hours ago, hegelsohn said:

Not the best wildsoul player, but always preferred cleaver build over the bear mock. While mock is highly annoying on bobo I consider it as overrated. Can't understand it being picked up on any hero considering farming speed being worse than with a cleaver. 

The only situation I would pick up a mock is if the enemy team has lots of PK heroes.

 

I also prefer TC on chronos.

Cleaver WS is indeed more fun - who doesn't like mowing down all those 3x ancients with two attacks? At least, we can now kind of put it as Mock > Cleaver > TC and people can go Cleaver without being that worse off from Mock.

I go Mock on Draconis at times if the team has room for another heavy farming core (usually with a less farm-dependent mid). Parasite can also be a good candidate for it - again, if the team has enough farm to go around. 

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On 1/31/2021 at 12:00 PM, AgentZer0 said:

Parasite can also be a good candidate for [Mock]- again, if the team has enough farm to go around. 

I actually disagree. I don't think Parasite should ever get Mock. If you want to farm the jungle rapidly and grab a Mock, then you should pick Zephyr.
Zephyr scales better, he can farm really quickly and Mock synergizes better with his kit.

For Parasite, what is more threatening? What would you fear more to be on the receiving end of?
- A Parasite with at least a level 1 Codex who can jump out of your own jungle, dump his entire kit on you and instakill you all by himself?
OR
- A Parasite with a Mock, which warns you if he's close, and doesn't let him instakill anyone. If you survive his combo and have a stun or an escape, you can just run away.

Mock is for the most part, a farming item, and that is just not where Parasite's strengths lie. Imo he needs to be spending the majority of his time ganking, not farming the jungle.
If anything, you might actually want to stay out of your own jungle as much as you can once you're able to start making life hell for whichever opponent is trying to farm theirs. Make the rest of their team have to pay attention to you, create space for your carry to farm.

I'm not good at it, but I'm pretty sure that's how Parasite is meant to be played.

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I agree, Mock on parasite is just horrible. It's a farming item while parasite is an active ganker. You don't get a farming item unless you plan to farm which parasite shouldn't for obvious reasons. Legio could farm a mock fairly fast as well but there is no point to do so. Both are anti carrys which should be farming kills instead.

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On 2/3/2021 at 2:20 AM, Floofboy said:

I actually disagree. I don't think Parasite should ever get Mock. If you want to farm the jungle rapidly and grab a Mock, then you should pick Zephyr.
Zephyr scales better, he can farm really quickly and Mock synergizes better with his kit.

For Parasite, what is more threatening? What would you fear more to be on the receiving end of?
- A Parasite with at least a level 1 Codex who can jump out of your own jungle, dump his entire kit on you and instakill you all by himself?
OR
- A Parasite with a Mock, which warns you if he's close, and doesn't let him instakill anyone. If you survive his combo and have a stun or an escape, you can just run away.

Mock is for the most part, a farming item, and that is just not where Parasite's strengths lie. Imo he needs to be spending the majority of his time ganking, not farming the jungle.
If anything, you might actually want to stay out of your own jungle as much as you can once you're able to start making life hell for whichever opponent is trying to farm theirs. Make the rest of their team have to pay attention to you, create space for your carry to farm.

I'm not good at it, but I'm pretty sure that's how Parasite is meant to be played.

Just no. A 12min mock parasite is so insaneIy strong and wins you every teamfight untiI min 20. Mock on para is onIy bad if you have it too Iate.

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