Jump to content

4.9.1 - Pre-release discussion


Recommended Posts

Before lv 6, maybe not. But later will be. At least, he can do something rather than auto attack like power creep? 0,8s and 1.2s is huge different already, and he may use E two times to stun enemy 2.4s (up from 1.6)

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 51
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

If he is not "broken", why do you nerf him so hard in the beginning as if he was a godtier pick?   It wasn't really a hero that people didn't complain about in the first place, I think if so

This is a huge nerf imo.   I love the damage reduction nerf on it but pure supports suffer from the gold increase. It's such an expensive pickup. imo not quite understandable.  

I made some changes to Shadowblade to this upcoming patch:  We are also making another Region Selection quality-of-life improvement 🙂 

There are limitations to that - you have to actually be in E form for 10s before you can even try to use E's active form twice in succession, and you have to be close enough to attack. Generally you will either need PK/Shroud to engage comfortably in E form with 5s remaining on it, or need a reliable initiator to take advantage of that. However at that point, the stun is largely wasted because your allies are more likely to use their CC at that time.

Edited by ElementUser
Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, you know, the stun maybe waste if your eneme is stunned already by your support but it is a huge impact when you solo kill someone. 

Shadow blade always bad of keeping his enemy in range so E form will always be used in any main Attribute. and since you nerf his Q so hard, people will take a liking to his E instead

For Str build: You can slow enemy with frostwolf's skull plus having a stun

For Agi build: You can take down enemy with shroud + E stun. (this make you feel like nomad, no? )

For Intel build: Having a stun when spamming your E is always a welcome?

And like i said before, shadowblade is boring to play, the hero didnt have something that engage people to play him except having very high Main Stat. All he did is auto attacking someone else to death, he offer a very little to teamates. That's why i consider having a good stun skill on him is a life changer

Edited by w3wstarboy
Link to post
Share on other sites

0.8s and 1.2s's difference can be huge, we'll have to see in practice. But if Shadowblade can reliably initiate a fight leading to a stunlock as a carry, leaving no room to react then he's leagues stronger than if it's just a minor annoying stun, which opponents can still do stuff after before supports can follow up.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With the current buff of the warbeast character, blitz is not the fastest hero in the game! Can we expect a later blitz buff returning his post as HON's fastest character?

War Beast

Metamorphosis
- While active, max Movement Speed for your own units increased from 550 to 550/600/650.

Bliz

Quicken
[ E ]
Blitz Quicken.jpg
Cast Time: 0 / 0 seconds
Target Unit Ally Units
Type - Magic
Blitz surges an ally with adrenaline granting the nimble movements of a fox.
Range: 500
Mana Cost: 35/40/45/50
Cooldown: 10 seconds
Passively increases your maximum Movement Speed by 20/40/60/80.

Applies Quicken to target for 2.5/3.25/4/4.75 seconds.

Better, Stronger, Faster
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ElementUser said:

 

All I did was add some minor scaling to Shadowblade's E when compared to the first version of the patch notes vs. the updated version. It's funny how that changes your perception completely when all I did was 20 -> 20/30/40/50 for Magic Damage and 0.8 -> 0.9/1/1.1/1.2 second for Stun duration.

Thats indeed a nice buff that will make him be able to perform much better in lane, also the stats buff giving him some better late game, my only concern now is why would any1 want to go strength path when you get a heavy penalty compared to the other 2 stats and for most of the games agility is superior since you can farm faster and kill enemies faster. That being said i may give him a go again, thx.

Link to post
Share on other sites
9 hours ago, ElementUser said:

I made some changes to Shadowblade to this upcoming patch: 

We are also making another Region Selection quality-of-life improvement 🙂 

Thanks for the Shadowblade update! Hopefully he will be more viable this upcoming patch

Link to post
Share on other sites

While I understand why power supply was reverted to mana battery, I'm not a fan of the Sacrificial Stone nerf: 25 gold price increase, number of charges capped at 10? (unclear from the patch notes). Previously it could heal up to 15 charges x 10 hp x 1.1 (10% healing increase) = 165 health. Now it's 138 health max :( For being a fairly expensive item (you don't buy it before steamboots - or another type of boots), the amount of healing done is too little by the time you pick it up.

Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, korDen said:

While I understand why power supply was reverted to mana battery, I'm not a fan of the Sacrificial Stone nerf: 25 gold price increase, number of charges capped at 10? (unclear from the patch notes). Previously it could heal up to 15 charges x 10 hp x 1.1 (10% healing increase) = 165 health. Now it's 138 health max 😞 For being a fairly expensive item (you don't buy it before steamboots - or another type of boots), the amount of healing done is too little by the time you pick it up.

The charge cap for Sacrificial Stone is already at 15 right now. There is no change to that value.

 

After the patch hits, you can heal for a max of 12 HP * 15 charges * 1.15 = 207 HP (from 165 HP).

Edited by ElementUser
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, ElementUser said:

The charge cap for Sacrificial Stone is already at 15 right now. There is no change to that value.

After the patch hits, you can heal for a max of 12 HP * 15 charges * 1.15 = 207 HP (from 165 HP).

Great to hear that, thanks for the clarification. The patch notes seem to indicate it inherited 10 charges cap from Power Supply.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Some more questions for the patch that should have been added:

 

Why no buff to FWS? It felt like this rework was a nerf to the item even if it makes FWS different to FFP. But usually if you played any STR semicarry initator like Amun-Ra you would pickup both FWS+FFP to stack attackspeedslow to be more anticarry. FWS was already an item that got rarely picked up compared to 2012-2013.

 

Qi should also get buffed this patch as he is still somewhat underperforming, since the patches gets released so late you have to wait until easter for the next patch.

 

Lightbrand (as mentioned before) should still trigger "Searing" in a radius if you're autoattacking, since it will be hard right now to get the "Searing" effect triggered with 3 stacks all the time if you don't have the attackspeed for it, which you don't have if you go Lightbrand as a farming item.

 

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

The simple answer is that 1 patch does not address all of the issues. While we *could* do them, at this point (1 day before the patch) they would have been done without the proper level of thought or care.

 

The other reason is that some changes are better bundled with other changes in another patch.

Edited by ElementUser
Link to post
Share on other sites

- Automated Courier now plays its sounds on its own sound channel when the ability is activated.
* i.e. this no longer stops other sounds that are currently playing, i.e. the Rune Announcer.

I'm actually hype for this; my OCD thanks you EUser.

Also good patch overall, I'm concerned with Lightbrand now going to underperform once again tho. EP nerf is justified, but I think I would have gone a bit more modest with definitely more received damage amp, and like one additional listed nerf, like cost/passive nerfs. I don't think it should be tooo bad.

The buff you gave Armordillo is a buff I've thought should've been done years ago. It seems small but it's very telling when you actually play the hero. Now Armadon can really punish people for attacking his back even harder. I do wonder how annoying this will be earlygame, but who cares Arma deserves it.


OFFTOPIC: You mind putting a 0.5s cooldown on Apex's SotM The Burning Ember toggle? It would help when you're trying to spam it out of CC, I learned the hard way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Quote

= User Interface =

- Region selection checkboxes are now visible in the "Play Now" screen (for the "new UI"), without having to press the "Regions" button.
* This change should improve visibility on what regions a user is queuing for before actually queuing up for a game.

- Region selection for all players will be reset when the patch occurs.
* By default, no regions will be selected (as opposed to having all of them selected).

+ This change will force players to select the regions they prefer, and should drastically alleviate issues with players playing on servers where they have high ping.

THIS IS HUGE  @WhySoNublike

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2021 at 3:24 PM, GiveUpBra said:

So true man, shadowblade was one of my favourite heros, bought almost all avatars but havent played him since he got the strength on ulti nerf cuz it just feels pretty weak now, of course i dont play it competively, but its just sad heroes i used to love get nerfed or reworked into something weak or boring. I do like the changes to adrenaline, he felt to squishy with his current ulti.

 

You guys been playing shadow wrong the whole time :). I laughed when his Str got nerfed, cos I never used his strength. I go intel carry build, with harkon. Try it, huge damage, not great on HP, but late game you have that sorted. Harkon basically doubles your dmg....if they don't have much magic armour :).

Link to post
Share on other sites

I think that Klanx is underperforming for a quite long amount of time. Maybe you should consider about doing something with that in the next patch?

Edited by epiculti
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 1/30/2021 at 2:57 PM, ElementUser said:

First of all, the higher level players were actually complaining that support heroes were too strong.

Second, the nerfs aren't even all that bad - that's only one way to look at the change, but those items are being nerfed under specific conditions. You do know that other heroes (not just supports) are picking up those items too right? You always have to consider other heroes picking up the same items support heroes do.

What you wrote is a classic example of an emotional post supplemented with a slippery slope fallacy applied to it, with cherrypicking (because "nerfs to support heroes" is the only thing you pointed out).

Regardless, support heroes are still insanely strong & are not nerfed much at all.

You never seem to put into account how HoN had a drastic change towards making things much simpler for the carry role over the years. A clear trend has been towards buffing carry hero early weakness and buffing junglers impact on the game. Why is it that you assume that his complaints are not seeing the whole picture? Remember, we lack people that appreciate the support role and we have overflood of people playing carry. Maybe its time to at least try to even the play field? Why is it that the game has to promote uneven distrubution of resources? I think its time to consider what actually happens in games and not how it is suppose to turn out. We finally had some games without Nomad and MK, which quickly got adressed. Shellshock which are in my opinion overperforming get a quality of life fix instead of a slighly tweak (you have a full 5 man invul - leap - aoe stun which are impossible to counter unless you have some crazy movement speed or leap. Maybe make it possible to interupt the roll?). The grimour is a clear carry item, support will never get gold to buy it and it makes it so much easier for carries to farm greedy and get away. Of course you remove the possibility to remove legio taunt which was to me the only argument to keep the grimour as it is! Because legio taunt is already so strong. I could probably point out much more examples, however, I think you should realy aim to reduce the differences between roles instead of promote them. How many casual support player will stack jungle when they dont even get Orb of zamos when carry clear the stacks? Its like... comeon... kick a role that already are suffering from low amount of players, doesnt make sense.

 

edit: I want to add, I agree that many support hero are strong. But my point, that is a good thing!

Edited by Mezi
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Mezi said:

You never seem to put into account how HoN had a drastic change towards making things much simpler for the carry role over the years. A clear trend has been towards buffing carry hero early weakness and buffing junglers impact on the game. Why is it that you assume that his complaints are not seeing the whole picture? Remember, we lack people that appreciate the support role and we have overflood of people playing carry. Maybe its time to at least try to even the play field? Why is it that the game has to promote uneven distrubution of resources? I think its time to consider what actually happens in games and not how it is suppose to turn out. We finally had some games without Nomad and MK, which quickly got adressed. Shellshock which are in my opinion overperforming get a quality of life fix instead of a slighly tweak (you have a full 5 man invul - leap - aoe stun which are impossible to counter unless you have some crazy movement speed or leap. Maybe make it possible to interupt the roll?). The grimour is a clear carry item, support will never get gold to buy it and it makes it so much easier for carries to farm greedy and get away. Of course you remove the possibility to remove legio taunt which was to me the only argument to keep the grimour as it is! Because legio taunt is already so strong. I could probably point out much more examples, however, I think you should realy aim to reduce the differences between roles instead of promote them. How many casual support player will stack jungle when they dont even get Orb of zamos when carry clear the stacks? Its like... comeon... kick a role that already are suffering from low amount of players, doesnt make sense.

 

edit: I want to add, I agree that many support hero are strong. But my point, that is a good thing!

I totally agree. 
 

Support players have to be lucky in placement matches because they depend of how good carry is in their team. Plus, I noticed, especially at lower brackets that people dont know importance of support role or even if someone picks support,it is played very bad... Many people dont know how to stack, pull, lane control, not taking farm from carry, they dont buy wards, and even if they buy they put it in the forest to block their own camp 🙂

And with this overal support nerfs, I can just imagine how many support players will stick to that role in next several months.

Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, noobilistic said:

You guys been playing shadow wrong the whole time :). I laughed when his Str got nerfed, cos I never used his strength. I go intel carry build, with harkon. Try it, huge damage, not great on HP, but late game you have that sorted. Harkon basically doubles your dmg....if they don't have much magic armour :).

Well i enjoyed having a tanky hero that could still do some decent dmg, its never been that much about winning for me, cuz then i would always go for Agi and sometimes Int, but going strg and being able to tank team fights felt awesome. Even with the recent buffs if i play sb i wont go for strg since it has a big penalty.

Edited by GiveUpBra
Link to post
Share on other sites

Actually the trend was not buffing carrys and junglers. Quite the opposite with the buffs for dual lanes.

Some years ago it was actually quite boring when it was all about carry farming meta.

Supports were in a strong spot almost all the time and introduction of ophelias, somaz, dewarding money etc. made life even more easy for them. Which is also the reason they have been receiving nerfs.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

These quality of life improvements are excellent.

No regions selected is a perfect fix for the issue and I love the way they are obviously displayed now.  That alone would be worth an entire patch.

Removing the fan art from loading screen background was the right move.  I'm glad people are making fan art, but the loading screen deserves a more consistent art direction imo.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, VHD said:

These quality of life improvements are excellent.

No regions selected is a perfect fix for the issue and I love the way they are obviously displayed now.  That alone would be worth an entire patch.

Removing the fan art from loading screen background was the right move.  I'm glad people are making fan art, but the loading screen deserves a more consistent art direction imo.

 

This. One of the thing that disturbed me was that the art is pretty low res on a good monitor. Which kinda makes it look a bit "lazy".

Link to post
Share on other sites
8 hours ago, hegelsohn said:

Actually the trend was not buffing carrys and junglers. Quite the opposite with the buffs for dual lanes.

Some years ago it was actually quite boring when it was all about carry farming meta.

Supports were in a strong spot almost all the time and introduction of ophelias, somaz, dewarding money etc. made life even more easy for them. Which is also the reason they have been receiving nerfs.

 

You might say that the intention was to buff dual lane. However, the fact is that carry hero are valuable much faster, pushing setup and 5 ganker kind of setup are much more difficult since jungler and carry are already so strong midgame. I want to point out how difficult it was to actually win a game with mb carry, but it was also a huge reward if you manage to not lose the game while mb struggle for 1h. You lose the aspect of carry being good late game and support/gankers being good early game. Now you can roll over enemy ganker team with hero such as preda, tarrot, klanx, mb, even solstice, keeper and legio. The previous strong late-mid game or pure late game heros are vanished. Some of them can compete even in laning phase, which is a pity. Support in general have less value because of this trend. You see full 5man carry teams roll over enemy with 2 dedicated support heros without any problem, which would literaly be impossible even how good you were in the oldschool gameplay.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello,

it's still hard to win a game with MB mid game. How exactly was he buffed that this changed?

I think your opinion is quite biased and you still try to convince people from jungle meta being overpowered and should be removed. But that didn't really change for the past years. The meta never changed in that direction. It has always been like that - just that now there are less jungle players that some years ago.

The pubtrain meta was due to xp/gold gain for kills which finally promoted a more active game play early on. But that was also nerfed again so you can't really talk about a trend. 

Again, it was always like that: You can snowball if you are fed but basically any hero works for that. If you regularly jungle as legio/sols, you will not snowball, at least not vs evenly skilled players. That's because it's quite balanced..

No idea why you think HoN is losing the aspect of carrys being good late game. HoN is all about that. You create space for your carry to farm while trying to avoid the enemy carry to do so.

Edited by hegelsohn
Link to post
Share on other sites

×
×
  • Create New...