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4.9.1 - Pre-release discussion


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If he is not "broken", why do you nerf him so hard in the beginning as if he was a godtier pick?   It wasn't really a hero that people didn't complain about in the first place, I think if so

This is a huge nerf imo.   I love the damage reduction nerf on it but pure supports suffer from the gold increase. It's such an expensive pickup. imo not quite understandable.  

I made some changes to Shadowblade to this upcoming patch:  We are also making another Region Selection quality-of-life improvement 🙂 

Everything is predictable except calamity nerf. She finally show her worthy and then got nerf instantly. so sad.

Where the bramble SOtm nerf????

Seriously, we need something that change the current meta

Edited by w3wstarboy
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2 hours ago, w3wstarboy said:

Everything is predictable except calamity nerf. She finally show her worthy and then got nerf instantly. so sad.

Where the bramble SOtm nerf????

Seriously, we need something that change the current meta

Calamity was doing way too well in the comp scene. Her laning phase is almost too good with little counterplay around it. She's probably still a viable pick even with these nerfs. Bramble isn't so much of a deal, except maybe midwars but you need a lot of kills/assist in FoC for staff to be remotely good.

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Lightbrand, Frozen Light, Searing Light, Dawnbringer, Grimoire of Power
- The Searing state is no longer applied in a 200 radius.

This is a huge nerf imo.

 

Quote

Void Talisman

Total Cost increased from 1500 Gold to 1700 Gold.

I love the damage reduction nerf on it but pure supports suffer from the gold increase. It's such an expensive pickup. imo not quite understandable.

 

Quote

Ophelia

Nature's Wrath

- Cast Range reduced from 800 to 600.

Please no! make it scale on level at least. (600/650/700/750)

This forces Ophelia to get too close to the enemys in lategame fights and will kill her super easily if this nerf really wanted to adress her early game.

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Lightbrand, Frozen Light, Searing Light, Dawnbringer, Grimoire of Power
- The Searing state is no longer applied in a 200 radius.

So is this still a valid farming item pickup? So if I understand correctly you have to swap targets permanetely? However, stacks ect should be a problem now for searing?!

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I understand where it comes from with the idea of the Lightbrand nerf, but I think it should still do it in radius if it is from autoattacks, because the main problem is what the guy above me said.

 

Still wondering why shadowblade got such a minor buff only, the stun on E feels like it is just some stopgap solution to his hard nerfs. I thought it would increase to like 2.0 or 2.2 in attributes and not just 1.6. I still find it interesting how you nerf this hero to the ground but you nerf minorly heroes like Puppet master, Grinex, Artillery, Draconis etc.

 

Other than that, Adrenaline buff is pretty good, as I had a lot of fun playing him this patch it is just that he tapers of quite early which this buff should help out with.

For Grimoire of power, it should at this point just get reverted back to its legacy form, with the damage amplifier. It fits way more with this brand. The icebrand is the brand of slow, Firebrand the brand of mobility, Lightbrand the brand of damage, which the Grimoire effect is a bit unfitting at its current state.

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3 hours ago, Ladonien said:

I understand where it comes from with the idea of the Lightbrand nerf, but I think it should still do it in radius if it is from autoattacks, because the main problem is what the guy above me said.

 

Still wondering why shadowblade got such a minor buff only, the stun on E feels like it is just some stopgap solution to his hard nerfs. I thought it would increase to like 2.0 or 2.2 in attributes and not just 1.6. I still find it interesting how you nerf this hero to the ground but you nerf minorly heroes like Puppet master, Grinex, Artillery, Draconis etc.

 

Other than that, Adrenaline buff is pretty good, as I had a lot of fun playing him this patch it is just that he tapers of quite early which this buff should help out with.

For Grimoire of power, it should at this point just get reverted back to its legacy form, with the damage amplifier. It fits way more with this brand. The icebrand is the brand of slow, Firebrand the brand of mobility, Lightbrand the brand of damage, which the Grimoire effect is a bit unfitting at its current state.

You didn't pay attention to what happened to Shadowblade last patch. His base stats got a significant buff. He would be broken if his gains got buffed back to 2. 

 

There are certain heroes that are more frustrating to play against in HoN than others. Shadowblade's strength form making him unkillable early game against most ganks and how it can snowball is a big concern, that is why he got nerfed in the first place. 

 

Also, if you think the nerfs to Draconis and Puppet are minor, you are mistaken. 

Edited by ElementUser
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56 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

You didn't pay attention to what happened to Shadowblade last patch. His base stats got a significant buff. He would be broken if his gains got buffed back to 2. 

 

There are certain heroes that are more frustrating to play against in HoN than others. Shadowblade's strength form making him unkillable early game against most ganks and how it can snowball is a big concern, that is why he got nerfed in the first place. 

 

Also, if you think the nerfs to Draconis and Puppet are minor, you are mistaken. 

Well, the base stats sounds good on paper but if you put it in a calculator and compared it to prior to 4.9.0 you would get the same amount of stats at lvl 8 iirc. And speaking of the str form it was already nerfed so it wasnt a problem anymore. Still I've never seen anyone that has said the line "shadowblade is so broken" throughout playing hon. After these latest nerfs I have only seen negative feedback wondering why you would nerf him in the first place when there are way more frustrating heroes that get instapicked/banned every single game. A better nerf would be that His stats would be better before level 16 and then taper off a bit from level 17-25 then I would be a bit more understood. 

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1 hour ago, Ladonien said:

Well, the base stats sounds good on paper but if you put it in a calculator and compared it to prior to 4.9.0 you would get the same amount of stats at lvl 8 iirc. And speaking of the str form it was already nerfed so it wasnt a problem anymore. Still I've never seen anyone that has said the line "shadowblade is so broken" throughout playing hon. After these latest nerfs I have only seen negative feedback wondering why you would nerf him in the first place when there are way more frustrating heroes that get instapicked/banned every single game. A better nerf would be that His stats would be better before level 16 and then taper off a bit from level 17-25 then I would be a bit more understood. 

It's not about that type of comparison, it's about getting the buffs where they matter while mitigating frustration factors at particular timepoints.

 

Buffs done in the laning phase have the potential to snowball into mid & late game. That's why his growths were nerfed past level 8, because his impact in lane is a lot stronger. You also can't just look at whether something is better/worse at certain points of the game because the magnitude of this also matters. The buffs are significant in the laning phase such that a minimal to moderate (at worst) loss in mid/late game is worth it without risking frustration.

 

Shadowblade isn't "broken", but in the past when he just built Strength for early/mid game, he's unkillable unless you have 3+ people pubtrain ganking him. That's why he's frustrating.

Edited by ElementUser
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Meh, i though new Grimmoire was interesting but still a niche pick up, now its back on my never to use items. Would love to see DR 0,8 perplex after ulti removed, its incredibly annoying not being able to use even dust or switch boots, nerf it somewhere else pls just dont make it frustrating to play.

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6 hours ago, ElementUser said:

It's not about that type of comparison, it's about getting the buffs where they matter while mitigating frustration factors at particular timepoints.

 

Buffs done in the laning phase have the potential to snowball into mid & late game. That's why his growths were nerfed past level 8, because his impact in lane is a lot stronger. You also can't just look at whether something is better/worse at certain points of the game because the magnitude of this also matters. The buffs are significant in the laning phase such that a minimal to moderate (at worst) loss in mid/late game is worth it without risking frustration.

 

Shadowblade isn't "broken", but in the past when he just built Strength for early/mid game, he's unkillable unless you have 3+ people pubtrain ganking him. That's why he's frustrating.

If he is not "broken", why do you nerf him so hard in the beginning as if he was a godtier pick?

 

It wasn't really a hero that people didn't complain about in the first place, I think if something ain't broken, don't try to fix it. I think everyone can agree that he is seen as a trollpick since the last patch and why would anyone play him as anything else than a hard carry? Now after the nerf last patch the only difference is that he needs even more time to be somewhat useful in the game. Even with the assumptions that Shadowblade is a "semi-carry" or "support", which is false since he has always since released being looked as a hard carry that is versatile with different builds. You go STR if you face a heavy nuker team, you go AGI (most of the time) if you want to try to outcarry some enemy hardcarry and you go situationally INT if you play versus a hero like Doctor Repulsor or Parallax.

 

But during pre-4.9.0, most people didn't even think about going STR build considering how nerfed it was before, but I think most of us go for the AGI build where you max W and 1 point in E and then the rest you go ATTR boost as it scales better with Essence Shift, and it makes Feint Siphon more spammable in lane since you don't use two abilities at the same time.

 

The point is, we all can agree that Shadowbalde is a hard carry. He has always been known as one, he is as item dependent as a hard carry, he scales more and more the later the game goes (which is a hard carry trait), he outputs damage as a hard carry. 

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So true man, shadowblade was one of my favourite heros, bought almost all avatars but havent played him since he got the strength on ulti nerf cuz it just feels pretty weak now, of course i dont play it competively, but its just sad heroes i used to love get nerfed or reworked into something weak or boring. I do like the changes to adrenaline, he felt to squishy with his current ulti.

 

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4 minutes ago, GiveUpBra said:

So true man, shadowblade was one of my favourite heros, bought almost all avatars but havent played him since he got the strength on ulti nerf cuz it just feels pretty weak now, of course i dont play it competively, but its just sad heroes i used to love get nerfed or reworked into something weak or boring. I do like the changes to adrenaline, he felt to squishy with his current ulti.

 

I would say don't dismiss it before trying it. Shadowblade has gone through many ups & downs to find the point where he isn't frustrating to play against, without him feeling bad to play. This iteration should make him viable (at the very least).

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Its not that, i just enjoyed going whatever atribute i wanted and even switching in the same game, right now it feels like only Agi is viable, its been ages since i cared about mmr. I used to enjoy for example playing the old nitro despite being one of my worst heros cuz sometimes you could make some big pro plays, or the feeling of old Moa when he had super high attack speed was amazing, the hero may be more balanced now but its a lot more boring, i would still play him even if his dmg was nerfed as long as he could still attack superfast.

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I enjoy playing shadowblade even current patch. Hero's versatile and is fun in lane, he can man up with WQ or harass with E. +7 to all stats and the change to Q means that you don't have to always max Q because it's too good anymore, you can max either of the 3 depending on the game. Q to soak damage, W to harass/beat down ranged heroes, E to harass melees. Low manacost and higher mana pool also mean you can spam more generously, his laning is honestly really good.

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I was always wondering why you have to ruin playing of support role... After all these updates I can say I only saw support nerfs... 
1. In placement matches I have to depend on group
2. in lower brackets too
3. you raised cost of astrolabe, void, nerfed void, nerfed power supply, nerfed orb.....
I really dont know what to say....

4. nerfing support heroes that "were doing well"...
 

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19 minutes ago, dushajni said:

I was always wondering why you have to ruin playing of support role... After all these updates I can say I only saw support nerfs... 
1. In placement matches I have to depend on group
2. in lower brackets too
3. you raised cost of astrolabe, void, nerfed void, nerfed power supply, nerfed orb.....
I really dont know what to say....

4. nerfing support heroes that "were doing well"...
 

First of all, the higher level players were actually complaining that support heroes were too strong.

Second, the nerfs aren't even all that bad - that's only one way to look at the change, but those items are being nerfed under specific conditions. You do know that other heroes (not just supports) are picking up those items too right? You always have to consider other heroes picking up the same items support heroes do.

What you wrote is a classic example of an emotional post supplemented with a slippery slope fallacy applied to it, with cherrypicking (because "nerfs to support heroes" is the only thing you pointed out).

Regardless, support heroes are still insanely strong & are not nerfed much at all.

Edited by ElementUser
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12 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

Honestly, shadowblade isnt the fun hero to play if you dont put something broken to him so ppl will take a liking to it.

 

23 minutes ago, w3wstarboy said:

Ok, finally something broken on shadowblade that engage me to play him. Hehe Boiz

All I did was add some minor scaling to Shadowblade's E when compared to the first version of the patch notes vs. the updated version. It's funny how that changes your perception completely when all I did was 20 -> 20/30/40/50 for Magic Damage and 0.8 -> 0.9/1/1.1/1.2 second for Stun duration.

Edited by ElementUser
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All i can say that you can ignore Q early and maxed E instead. 1.2s stun early on shadowblade is not a joke.

For example: You change to Str at lv 6, but maxed E for harrass, we will have a ranged str hero that deal high auto attack damage and stun 1.2s in frist hit?

 

Edited by w3wstarboy
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5 minutes ago, w3wstarboy said:

All i can say that you can ignore Q early and maxed E instead. 1.2s stun early on shadowblade is not a joke.

For example: You change to Str at lv 6, but maxed E for harrass, we will have a ranged str hero that deal high auto attack damage and stun 1.2s in frist hit?

 

Does it really make such a big difference from 0.8s? That is what it was before.

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