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Why do you have to play when the game starts 4v5?


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Just make it remakeable no matter how the other team votes, or if that isn't possible, make it possible to concede at 0 minutes.

Playing 4v5 from 0 minutes in is maybe the most rage-inducing 15 minutes imaginable in HoN.

Edited by Sorais
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A must for a 4vs5 remake would be very good in my eyes if the leaver drops completly out of the game within the first 3min or something. However, only if the leaver - if its on purpose - gets like -15mmr. I have seen alot of games with a legendary player leaving losing 2*0.4 mmr only. I would propose a fixxed -15 mmr no matter if the game  is remade or not to establish a solid punishment. 

I dont even know whether he get -mmr if the game is being remade immediately. 

 

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1 hour ago, Physiker said:

A must for a 4vs5 remake would be very good in my eyes if the leaver drops completly out of the game within the first 3min or something. However, only if the leaver - if its on purpose - gets like -15mmr. I have seen alot of games with a legendary player leaving losing 2*0.4 mmr only. I would propose a fixxed -15 mmr no matter if the game  is remade or not to establish a solid punishment. 

I dont even know whether he get -mmr if the game is being remade immediately. 

 

Agreed. Legendary players just leaving the game cuz they lose almost no mmr happens A LOT, sadly. They should be punished somehow(even when its rmked)... Otherwise it will stay this clownfiesta and not being enjoyable for diamond/gold players.

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Having a fixed minus mmr after placements sounds pretty good to me.

I also like the fact that you get -mmr + leaver % if a game was remade. However, that's unlikely going to work. It could be abused - people who just DCed and are going to reconnect could get a falsy punishment. I don't have a proper solution in mind for that as it's basically not possible to determine whether the leave happened on purpose or not.

You are already not forced to play a 4vs5 if I recall correctly. I think you are free to leave without any punishment if 1 player got terminated. And I think that punishments should only apply when the player actually got terminated for the reasons mentioned above.

Maybe something like less MMR lost if a player got terminated within the first 10minutes could be an option. 

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53 minutes ago, hegelsohn said:

Having a fixed minus mmr after placements sounds pretty good to me.

I also like the fact that you get -mmr + leaver % if a game was remade. However, that's unlikely going to work. It could be abused - people who just DCed and are going to reconnect could get a falsy punishment. I don't have a proper solution in mind for that as it's basically not possible to determine whether the leave happened on purpose or not.

You are already not forced to play a 4vs5 if I recall correctly. I think you are free to leave without any punishment if 1 player got terminated. And I think that punishments should only apply when the player actually got terminated for the reasons mentioned above.

Maybe something like less MMR lost if a player got terminated within the first 10minutes could be an option. 

You still get punished for leaving if only 1 teammate has been terminated. This is rightly so imo as 4v5 games aren't unwinnable and depending on how far into the game that player has been terminated.

But yes, I agree fixed -mmr after placements is an excellent idea. Probably one of the best ideas I've ever heard of.

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1 hour ago, hegelsohn said:

"..... It could be abused - people who just DCed and are going to reconnect could get a falsy punishment. I don't have a proper solution in mind for that as it's basically not possible to determine whether the leave happened on purpose or not."

 

Most of the players that quits they either join a new game right away or change account to join another match. Wouldn't be possible to detect that? (so ppl that DCs wouldn't get punished)

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On 1/28/2021 at 4:38 PM, hegelsohn said:

Having a fixed minus mmr after placements sounds pretty good to me.

I also like the fact that you get -mmr + leaver % if a game was remade. However, that's unlikely going to work. It could be abused - people who just DCed and are going to reconnect could get a falsy punishment. I don't have a proper solution in mind for that as it's basically not possible to determine whether the leave happened on purpose or not.

You are already not forced to play a 4vs5 if I recall correctly. I think you are free to leave without any punishment if 1 player got terminated. And I think that punishments should only apply when the player actually got terminated for the reasons mentioned above.

Maybe something like less MMR lost if a player got terminated within the first 10minutes could be an option. 

Yes, it is allowed to leave after one player gets terminated. The problem is the chat message stating that pops up after another player gets terminated and it is very rare that two people dc. So most people are not aware of the fact they are allowed to leave and so they stay in game.

I don't know why the message doesn't appear earlier...

 

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Should just adopt a similar system to Dota.
If a player disconnects before first blood,  the game is remade upon termination of that player (even if first blood happens between disconnection and termination) and only the leaver gets slapped with minus MMR (and other penalties for leaving)

Edited by RitchUK
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How about for a start implement a -mmr when the player is terminated. Not just a leaver%. This should be fairly easy to add. The loss of MMR could be increasing from -0 (1st time, we should forgive if someone crash or have a power outage), -10 (2nd time), -20 (3rd time) and so on with a counter of 7-31 days.

I dont think its possible to reduce the mmr lost for the rest of the team as this could be abused with someone on a "dummy" account when the team is playing bad or got out picked.

Dosent solve the issue when the game is remade but at least its adding a rather big risk to DC the game.

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On 1/29/2021 at 3:35 PM, Netzpatron said:

Yes, it is allowed to leave after one player gets terminated. The problem is the chat message stating that pops up after another player gets terminated and it is very rare that two people dc. So most people are not aware of the fact they are allowed to leave and so they stay in game.

I don't know why the message doesn't appear earlier...

 

Soooo once I was queuing with a friend, and in the other team they had 1 dc'ed, so we sent rmk and nobody pass it, so I told my friend we could leave without penalty bc 4v5 sucks. 

We got out of the game and guess what... the rest of ppl played the game and they lost bc we got out, they other team won 4v3 and we lost MMR. Sooooo the penalty only comes to which you won't be punished as a leaver, but still you loose MMR and stats. 

Some say MMR and stats don't matter, but I don't really get to play to often as I'm old with responsibilities so every match counts for me lel and nobody likes loosing. 

Still keep the great work FB and team, hope the best solution can be found for abandoned games!

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Personally I'd rather play a 4v5 once in a while than never. (Different dynamic) 
Also would rather play a 4v5 than remake after 5 min first blood and then wait 5 more min for a new game + 5 min 2x pick phases= 15 min waste. 

Edited by Ondis
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On 2/1/2021 at 7:15 AM, marveh said:

Soooo once I was queuing with a friend, and in the other team they had 1 dc'ed, so we sent rmk and nobody pass it, so I told my friend we could leave without penalty bc 4v5 sucks. 

We got out of the game and guess what... the rest of ppl played the game and they lost bc we got out, they other team won 4v3 and we lost MMR. Sooooo the penalty only comes to which you won't be punished as a leaver, but still you loose MMR and stats. 

Some say MMR and stats don't matter, but I don't really get to play to often as I'm old with responsibilities so every match counts for me lel and nobody likes loosing. 

Still keep the great work FB and team, hope the best solution can be found for abandoned games!

Some time ago FB switched the matchmaking algorithm to stop having 5qs play against five solo queue. One reason cited was the 5qs had a huge win rate. I wonder what the win rate of 5v4 is. I wouldn't be surprised if it's even larger than 5q vs five solo queue.

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Deliberate stat manipulation without enough penalty is the issue.

 

Once again, the root of the problem is in HoN's lack of account value - once we resolve that & an improved leaver system, all these associated issues will be resolved.

Edited by ElementUser
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