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Legionnaire W vs E jungle


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Do you know or have any guide that suggest that one is better at the other? From my experience PK farming with both comes around min 12-14 (with boots, chalice and whispering helm). I'm not sure though which one is better. W might be superior because of the burst damage you do after initiating with PK. What do you think ?

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From my experience, earliest I could reach PK was 6:45 minutes in-game, where the average is 8:00 if you are not harassed and don't have blocked camps. Max whirling blade when you can.

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If you can jungle freely and have an active support, actually going e-w-e-e-w-e-r-q-w-w etc is in my oppinion superior. the reduced cooldown on 2 from getting it up allows you to contest trippled stacked hardcamps more frequently. This is expecting you know your rotation and dont get needless shit like whispering (sorry but the item is just not really worth it if you can instead get an 8 min pk and farm kills and just simply escalate from there on so your carry has space) and your support wards. if your carry is solo and gets dominated id even consider getting q on 3 and help him out after stacking or while stacking the medium camp and then take it straight after leaving the lane to cripple opponents long lane.
also for the love of god, just putting it here, legios need to stop taking the pullcamp without having actual confirmation that they can take it cause it is currently not needed. it's one of the WORST habits of almost any jungler to just arrogantly take one of the key aspects of a shortlane away without communicating it. it may actually cost your carry lane control in a 1v1 or 2v2 or worse 1v2 situation and it might take him thrice as long to recover it.

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There was a period where maxing W was superior but since the E buff some time ago it's E first.

I personally always get taunt on level 4 as the level 2 W damage isn't too much of an advantage and you can get easy kills on enemy mid/shortlane with the level advantage you have by that time. That's always situational - if enemy heroes have too many hard escapes it's better to get taunt on level 8 (e.g. if you face a sui bubbles and won't be able to kill their mid either.

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16 hours ago, MerryHONmas said:

dont get needless shit like whispering (sorry but the item is just not really worth it

Well whispering helm takes +5 min to get PK and gives you many many more things that i will list below:
- armor, lifesteal, hp regen
- stacks that give you more and more gpm as the game goes on (you will need to give up jungle to the carry after 15'). Its ~900gold every 3min for free
- x2 triple ancient stacks to min 12, in that case you out level everyone on the game and this will go on every triple stack you do.

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If you pick a legio you should be aware of the enemy carry being freefarming. It's crucial to get your PK early and once you obtained it you can often get an easy kill on the enemy carry who is likely trying to obtain a cleaver. Delaying the cleaver by getting a kill 8-10min into the game will highly negatively impact the enemies mid/late game. If you farm a whispering helm it could potentially already be too late as once the farming item is obtained the harm you do is really minor.

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2 hours ago, Sedge` said:

Well whispering helm takes +5 min to get PK and gives you many many more things that i will list below:
- armor, lifesteal, hp regen
- stacks that give you more and more gpm as the game goes on (you will need to give up jungle to the carry after 15'). Its ~900gold every 3min for free
- x2 triple ancient stacks to min 12, in that case you out level everyone on the game and this will go on every triple stack you do.

You don't need whispering to stack unless you stack ancients with it and frankly truth be told you can generate more gpm for the entire team (just slightly less xp for yourself) by using your early pk to roam and take off the opponents core positions.
it is about four times as valuable to increase your entire teams or just another allies gpm while simultaneously crippling your opposing team, than to spend an additional x minutes to farm for another item when instead you could already be securing your victory.

the reason helm was picked up in tournaments, was initially ebcause of the micro benefits it gave aside of stats and stacking but frankly i havent seen a single player execute the creep properly enough to actually gank lanes with it while farming, thus basically just making it an expensive 1 camp stack that delays your entire teams progress.
do keep in mind please that every minute you occupy the jungle, is 200 gpm your carry has less and your opponents carry has more!

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13 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

E - W- E -Q - E - R - W

TWo point to W for better ganking, 3 E early for farming

if you dont use w for farming tripple stacked hardcamps, you are not playing legio correct :X

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6 minutes ago, MerryHONmas said:

if you dont use w for farming tripple stacked hardcamps, you are not playing legio correct :X

My map and your map is different so it's hard to say that i play wrong. For weak and advance camp, you dont even need to use W

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I like Whispering Helm. It gives useful stats, option to stack three camps at once and allows you to take tripled ancients so you´ll be about lvl 11 when everyone else are 6 or 7 and still get PK well before 12th minute. This is of course when there is nobody blocking your camps or ganking you or killing your dominated creep. 

I also understand people who do not buy it and go for a bit earlier PK. Guess it comes down to personal preference and in which bracket you play and what kind of counterplay you can expect. 

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1 hour ago, ScrubFactory said:

Guess it comes down to personal preference and in which bracket you play and what kind of counterplay you can expect. 

That's probably true. For me as I rarely play jungle it's simply just "if my legio goes for whispering helm, he'll probably be useless and just ruin my carries farm, so my carry should probably go for ganking build instead of faring build." and equally "if enemy legio goes for whispering helm, my carry can probably free farm for a pretty long time."

But I guess that's only for upper gold brackets and below (where probably at least 50% of legios get whispering helm) 😇

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I dont understand the connection between enemy Legionnaire going for Whispering Helm and your carry having freefarm. I don´t think Legionnaire is the only one who has to focus on ganking enemy carry when there are mid and long lane players and short lane support if there is an opportunity to let carry get solo exp.

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9 hours ago, ScrubFactory said:

I dont understand the connection between enemy Legionnaire going for Whispering Helm and your carry having freefarm. I don´t think Legionnaire is the only one who has to focus on ganking enemy carry when there are mid and long lane players and short lane support if there is an opportunity to let carry get solo exp.

Well I guess it depends. In most cases what I described happens - there are of course those games where there's a solo-devo short (or some other hero), which just results in our suicide lane getting free farm and hopefully ganking their legio, mid and short, so that's fine as well, but a normal game as for the carry.
However most cases there's a suicide, so he can never prevent the carry from freefarming. If he's getting help from just one person, it's stll a 2v2 and you either don't have a problem at all or can just sit it out which makes their other lane worse because someone had to leave. If they gank with mid and support both at once, it might be a problem, but the other two lanes should benefit greatly from it.
Sadly there's a decent chance at least one of the other lanes in my team is terrible and looses even against creeps, but that's another story 😅.

Basically a jungle hero that doesn't gank early has to be able to outcarry the enemy carry - which imho Legio just can't in most cases. Ganking is most of the time simply the easier way to victory.
The same is true for solstices and parasites - they can win without ganking, but it's way harder.

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9 hours ago, MerryHONmas said:

i LITERALLY said HARDCAMP 😄
 

Normal, you need use W two times to clear a triple hard camp before lv 6, so what difference between one and two point to W for it??

HoN SEA Player

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1 hour ago, Zerkul said:

If you dont go for helm, what do you then prefer to use to sustain yourself? 

To be honest I just buy runes of blight, health potions and once I have PK I do visits to the base once in a while, and go for Barbed / HotBL from there on, once I have HotBL/Ultor's I no longer need to sustain myself. (I do have a chalice with me at all times)

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2 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

Normal, you need use W two times to clear a triple hard camp before lv 6, so what difference between one and two point to W for it??

what?? no????
you don't... if it's trippled it should fall within 6-7 seconds max 8 seconds if you are level 3... unless your charge misses most creeps and does not debuff them

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I played Legionaire with above 450+ GPM many times and i rare see him clear a triple camp within 8 seconds with W at lv 1, W lv 1 only applied its debuff in 4 seconds. After the debuff gone, you gonna lost a lots of Hp if your hard camp is full of cat champion and minotaur. Not mention the RNG is shjt sometimes

You can say you can applied debuff to all the creep but not all the time, you can. You can learn 2 W at lv 4 but i would rather putting point to Q and next point to E so i can farm two double camp at the same times while stacking hard camp when i free and farm it when i at lv 4-5 and then go gank at lv 6. ( I played Legion at a ganker not a farmmer)
If i can get illusion or double damage rune, that will be another story.

Edited by w3_StarBoy

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1 minute ago, w3_StarBoy said:

I played Legionaire with above 450+ GPM many times and i rare see him clear a triple camp within 8 seconds with W at lv 1, W lv 1 only applied its debuff in 4 seconds. After the debuff gone, you gonna lost a lots of Hp it your hard camp is full of cat champion and minotaur.

You can say you can applied debuff to all the creep but not all the time, you can. You can learn 2 W at lv 4 but i would rather putting point to Q and next point to E so i can farm two double camp at the same times while stacking hard camp when i free and farm it when i at lv 4-5.
If i can get illusion or double damage rune, that will be another story.

That's why you take trippled hardcamps at 3 not at 2 ._.

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