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Hero Rework Spotlight: Adrenaline - New Item, New SOTM & Much More!


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You had me at old rampage ulti! So pumped.

I thought you were crazy with those low numbers on adrenaline's rush, then I saw the third ability and his ulti, game changer, I'm afraid for my wretched hag.

Can't wait for new patch, thanks!

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Super niche Adrenaline reminds me of the early access time in which most heroes like Riftwalker, Rally and Prisioner were designed to give teams some specific tools. I wonder if future remakes will go that way. I like this Adrenaline remake but I'm still mad about the Draconis remake, which turned a unique hero into a complete different one. Unlike the Adrenaline remake, in Draconis case a new hero woud've been better.

 

I can wait to try old Rampage with his new first that trades MInmunity for a faster charge.

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3 hours ago, Emukle said:

Super niche Adrenaline reminds me of the early access time in which most heroes like Riftwalker, Rally and Prisioner were designed to give teams some specific tools. I wonder if future remakes will go that way. I like this Adrenaline remake but I'm still mad about the Draconis remake, which turned a unique hero into a complete different one. Unlike the Adrenaline remake, in Draconis case a new hero woud've been better.

 

I can wait to try old Rampage with his new first that trades MInmunity for a faster charge.

Drac has a better niche now than he did before. He is a massive Global Defender and threat whereas his older iterations either affixed him to the tower or just split shot. The area denial aspect was nice, but that is still somewhat present in how Fiery Barrage spreads out between people like a living bomb.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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9 hours ago, RUS_AGENT007 said:

Adrenalin ulti! Does a on-frame take cover prevent bubble from returning back in? 

 

Now calamity ulti needs buff/rework!

Invulnerability does not bypass it. Pretty much nothing allows you to bypass its effects - you can reduce the uptime of the ultimate by damaging Adrenaline though (or killing him)

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So first, I want to say that new Adrenaline looks great and I like a lot of changes.

 

HOWEVER! What would you revert Rampage to his old ulti? The Chains that bind was a terrible skill and was countered way too easily. Any stun, mini, tablet, hex, sand scepter, etc. and it's wasted. There's a reason it was removed in the past - it didn't work. On one side, you're supposed to drag an opponent to do damage which means you can't auto-attack or stay in one place for your allies to attack the trapped opponent. On the other end, if you do want to auto-attack the opponent, or allow your llies to the same, you're basically using it as a long stun and the drag damage is completely wasted. 

Further, it muddles the role that Rampage has. There are really two fields of thought:

1. Rampage is a ganker/physical semi-carry. This is supported by his horned strike, damage/movement speed increase, slowing ability and Sol's might/Greater Rhino. Especially back in the day when horned strike was % based, and even when it's CD reduced over distance (synergized with his penchant for moving opponents around), Rampage could be a great counter to carries.

However, today, his horned strike is time gated, his greater rhino has been changed to a drag - meaning he can't auto-attack, but instead has to run around to harm his opponent.

2. Rampage is a ganker/initiator. This is supported by Iron hide (thank god that's gone) and chains that bind. With his greater strength gain back in the day, he could survive quite a few attacks from opponents

However, his strength gain has been nerfed dramatically over time and his iron hide isn't around to keep him alive longer and the chains that bind was just a lockdown for a single opponent. Furthermore, the invulnerability on his charge was removed, so he's even less protected than in the past.

Overall, I've loved Rampage as a ganker/semi-carry and really enjoyed his ability to move opponents around, attack speed builds and saw greater rhino as a step in the right direction. However, it seems like FB is lost as to what Rampage's core role should be. Maybe he should be two different heroes?

 

Also, I know this not up to my usual standards, but it's Thanksgiving and I don't have the time to type-up a more coherent post. Would love to discuss Rampage and the ideals behind him as well.

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16 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

The current ultimate is generic.

 

The Chains that Bind gives him something unique for him to offer to the team as an isolation specialist early on, while transitioning that momentum to mid game. 

I disagree. Yes, you can distill the damage as a nuke and the stun with other stunning ultimates, but the part that send the opponent towards rampage is pretty awesome, as it plays (played) into Rampage's kit of moving opponents out of place. I agree that the chains move opponents as well, but artificially, not organically if that makes sense.

Basically, ties that bind force you into a choice - move them for damage or use it as a long disable. Also, as I said earlier, Rampage lost many protection mechanics that allows him to run into a group of enemies and pull out the important target. Currently, the ties that bind only really "isolates" an already isolated opponent.

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The Horn strike Ultimate give Rampage the assault way to disable/kill enemy, make Rampage became a good ganker

The chain of Bind give him Rampage a way to drag enemy alone with him, but deal small damage and force Rampage to run away from front line. Make Rampage became a mix supporter-ganker and physical CC hero

While Rampage player always play aggressive because his charge, The horn strike fit well of him as a finished skill but the Chain of Bind messed it up, it force rampage to build PK, shurken head, Barbed Mail. It make Rampage to play less aggressive because he cant kill anyone. The Design is mess up from here.

Do rampage need something unique?? No, his charge is already a unique part of him.

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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It was very well possible to play ramp as a semi carry with sh and armor reduction. The ult did quite some damage when dragging over a longer distance. I prefer the drag mechanic and I'm sure it can be tweaked in case that's necessary. E.g. allowing ramp to use his Q after ulty (guess that would be too strong) or giving him a free invulnerability/evasion/resistance/stun reduction for x seconds when the ult is used. There are plenty of possibilities to play around with the new ult

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  • Paradise changed the title to Hero Rework Spotlight: Adrenaline - New Item, New SOTM & Much More!
1 hour ago, w3wstarboy said:

Well, i can guess we have the old charge and the E stun back .... but trust me, build armour reduction for The Chain that Bind is a complete a waste of money. 

Demonic is basically never a waste of money. It's one of the most efficient items in the game.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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On 11/26/2020 at 12:55 PM, LokiAuric said:

So first, I want to say that new Adrenaline looks great and I like a lot of changes.

 

HOWEVER! What would you revert Rampage to his old ulti? The Chains that bind was a terrible skill and was countered way too easily. Any stun, mini, tablet, hex, sand scepter, etc. and it's wasted. There's a reason it was removed in the past - it didn't work. On one side, you're supposed to drag an opponent to do damage which means you can't auto-attack or stay in one place for your allies to attack the trapped opponent. On the other end, if you do want to auto-attack the opponent, or allow your llies to the same, you're basically using it as a long stun and the drag damage is completely wasted. 

Further, it muddles the role that Rampage has. There are really two fields of thought:

1. Rampage is a ganker/physical semi-carry. This is supported by his horned strike, damage/movement speed increase, slowing ability and Sol's might/Greater Rhino. Especially back in the day when horned strike was % based, and even when it's CD reduced over distance (synergized with his penchant for moving opponents around), Rampage could be a great counter to carries.

However, today, his horned strike is time gated, his greater rhino has been changed to a drag - meaning he can't auto-attack, but instead has to run around to harm his opponent.

2. Rampage is a ganker/initiator. This is supported by Iron hide (thank god that's gone) and chains that bind. With his greater strength gain back in the day, he could survive quite a few attacks from opponents

However, his strength gain has been nerfed dramatically over time and his iron hide isn't around to keep him alive longer and the chains that bind was just a lockdown for a single opponent. Furthermore, the invulnerability on his charge was removed, so he's even less protected than in the past.

Overall, I've loved Rampage as a ganker/semi-carry and really enjoyed his ability to move opponents around, attack speed builds and saw greater rhino as a step in the right direction. However, it seems like FB is lost as to what Rampage's core role should be. Maybe he should be two different heroes?

 

Also, I know this not up to my usual standards, but it's Thanksgiving and I don't have the time to type-up a more coherent post. Would love to discuss Rampage and the ideals behind him as well.

 

Firstly, his current ultimate is way easier to counter since there is a 1 second delay. Now when he charges and stuns the enemy he can immediately chain up the guy, thus reducing the potential for the enemy to counter with geos, sand wraith w, blinks, storm spirit, void talisman activation, etc. The only way he can now get countered is if another hero is nearby to use those items you listed to save them. 

Secondly, this can potentially give rampage more damage from his ultimate since he can auto attack or drag the guy really fast synergizing with this movement speed buff from his w. His current ultimate does a flat 300 physical damage at level 16 which is pitiful considering armor gets countered very easily (even deadwood has a built in strength % damage on his ultimate to make his ultimate relevant later in the game).

Lastly, Rampage was never close to a semi-carry. His damage and attack speed is utter garbage since he has shit stats gains. He's like a shitty Salomon that would require a huge amount of expensive items to be even close to a semi-carry. It's like giving a chihuahua steroids. It's still a little shit that I can boot across my yard. 

Anyways, that's my two cents. I still think he needs more tweaking but this a step in the right direction in getting back into being an actual initiator lock down hero instead of just stunning the guy for 1 second. 

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13 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

The Horn strike Ultimate give Rampage the assault way to disable/kill enemy, make Rampage became a good ganker

The chain of Bind give him Rampage a way to drag enemy alone with him, but deal small damage and force Rampage to run away from front line. Make Rampage became a mix supporter-ganker and physical CC hero

While Rampage player always play aggressive because his charge, The horn strike fit well of him as a finished skill but the Chain of Bind messed it up, it force rampage to build PK, shurken head, Barbed Mail. It make Rampage to play less aggressive because he cant kill anyone. The Design is mess up from here.

Do rampage need something unique?? No, his charge is already a unique part of him.

Agreed, it muddled his style and the chains that bind don't work into his kit - he's meant to go in and kill. He's always had a hard time escaping, especially s you can't charge when you have someone chained and you have to charge an opponent (creep, hero or neutral).

9 hours ago, hegelsohn said:

It was very well possible to play ramp as a semi carry with sh and armor reduction. The ult did quite some damage when dragging over a longer distance. I prefer the drag mechanic and I'm sure it can be tweaked in case that's necessary. E.g. allowing ramp to use his Q after ulty (guess that would be too strong) or giving him a free invulnerability/evasion/resistance/stun reduction for x seconds when the ult is used. There are plenty of possibilities to play around with the new ult

See above, but what you're asking is Rampage fundamentally changing - that was the idea of Iron Hide when it was given to him a while back, but it didn't work well.

 

2 hours ago, fid1 said:

 

Firstly, his current ultimate is way easier to counter since there is a 1 second delay. Now when he charges and stuns the enemy he can immediately chain up the guy, thus reducing the potential for the enemy to counter with geos, sand wraith w, blinks, storm spirit, void talisman activation, etc. The only way he can now get countered is if another hero is nearby to use those items you listed to save them. 

Secondly, this can potentially give rampage more damage from his ultimate since he can auto attack or drag the guy really fast synergizing with this movement speed buff from his w. His current ultimate does a flat 300 physical damage at level 16 which is pitiful considering armor gets countered very easily (even deadwood has a built in strength % damage on his ultimate to make his ultimate relevant later in the game).

Lastly, Rampage was never close to a semi-carry. His damage and attack speed is utter garbage since he has shit stats gains. He's like a shitty Salomon that would require a huge amount of expensive items to be even close to a semi-carry. It's like giving a chihuahua steroids. It's still a little shit that I can boot across my yard. 

Anyways, that's my two cents. I still think he needs more tweaking but this a step in the right direction in getting back into being an actual initiator lock down hero instead of just stunning the guy for 1 second. 

There's a big difference between going in and nuking someone, then tossing them back to you (wherever you are) and trying to drag them back. Furthermore, when dragging someone, there are two targets - you and your opponent. Any abilities that stop, hinder, move or change the status of EITHER, will make your ultimate useless. It's great at disabling and moving isolated people, but that's pretty much it.

Also, he was an semi-carry/anti-carry back when he was first ported and before his horned strike was put on a timer instead of a % base, so that's false. He used to have a much higher strength gain and could stunlock some enemies to death like Chronos. 

 

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1 hour ago, LokiAuric said:

 

There's a big difference between going in and nuking someone, then tossing them back to you (wherever you are) and trying to drag them back. Furthermore, when dragging someone, there are two targets - you and your opponent. Any abilities that stop, hinder, move or change the status of EITHER, will make your ultimate useless. It's great at disabling and moving isolated people, but that's pretty much it.

Also, he was an semi-carry/anti-carry back when he was first ported and before his horned strike was put on a timer instead of a % base, so that's false. He used to have a much higher strength gain and could stunlock some enemies to death like Chronos. 

 

I fail to see how his current ultimate his better. There's a full second delay between the activation of his horned strike and the effect allowing for the enemy to use abilities and items making it much easier to counter. With chains that bind, the effect is instant and no room for countering when timed with his charge stun. His current ultimate has a laughable toss back effect whereas chains that bind can actually displace a target. The reason Rampage was an actual anti-carry back then was because he could charge through everyone and bind the carry and take him back to his team where they could pick him apart. He was never meant to go in and kill, he was meant to go in and initiate team fights by causing disruption. His current damage output is abysmal and heavily falls off. But his one redeeming quality was that he was still able to initiate, disable, and isolate the team carry making him more relevant in the late game instead of now with just a glorified 1 second stun WITH a 1 second delay.

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Would be nice if something different happeenz when a hero touch the shard-arena from the outside uhm like add some special debuff, slow, lower def or something to make adrenaline get some nice effort to "pull" heroes into the area. otherwise it will be just like trasspassing a red thing to dont go out for 6 seconds

x

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People don't seem to remember the old ult was the only thing of redeeming quality old rampage had.

 

If anything, turning the hero that can zero in a target from across the map, away from the generic cc burst pattern that everyone and their mother seem to have by giving him utility is one way to make the hero fun and viable beyond can-this-hero-do-more-generic-burst-cc-than-this-hero.

 

I for one, tried to make rampage work back in the days, and whenever i didn't get counter ganked and killed with the sheity charge, i could easily one shot most heroes. Running full duration with ghost marcher did easily 50~60% hp damage to a target on top of dragging them for close to 1000 range toward whatever you want. And that was when rampage couldn't gank for sheit with his sheity charge. Now i expect him to have a much smoother start and more items than he would have had in any respective timeframe.

 

More than that, current horned strike ult is just boring and unexciting.

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Heroes dont need a usefull skill to be popular, for example. Flint: Boring 2 passives, one ultimate at lv 6 and a slow.

Why people think rampage need something funny ultimate for hit kit ?? What the point to charge into enemy if you cant kill him? Focus on dragging enemy away from his team is funny?? Playing supporter rampage is funny??

The old ultimate is delay and easy to counter. So what??? An instant one punch skill like Pyromancer or deadwood is better, huh??

Edited by w3wstarboy
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8 hours ago, Rezziedahl said:

People don't seem to remember the old ult was the only thing of redeeming quality old rampage had.

 

If anything, turning the hero that can zero in a target from across the map, away from the generic cc burst pattern that everyone and their mother seem to have by giving him utility is one way to make the hero fun and viable beyond can-this-hero-do-more-generic-burst-cc-than-this-hero.

 

I for one, tried to make rampage work back in the days, and whenever i didn't get counter ganked and killed with the sheity charge, i could easily one shot most heroes. Running full duration with ghost marcher did easily 50~60% hp damage to a target on top of dragging them for close to 1000 range toward whatever you want. And that was when rampage couldn't gank for sheit with his sheity charge. Now i expect him to have a much smoother start and more items than he would have had in any respective timeframe.

 

More than that, current horned strike ult is just boring and unexciting.

Drag never, ever, did 50-60% of an opponent's HP in damage, unless it was an underleveled support, dragged for the entire duration and maybe a few ranged allied autos. The reason the chains were removed in the past was because they were a glitchy mess that did very little damage and didn't sync with his kit. His whole kit is getting in fast, how does he get out after chaining someone? He can't charge out, he can't PK away, he doesn't have the strength gain that used to make him tanky. It's a real mess.

His current ulti is great to put on escaping opponents to bring them back to you. It's more than just damage and the delay allows opponents to waste an escape skill, then get sent back to you. It reminds me of Sol's favor, where Rampage actually teleported to an enemy after a delay, which was really fun too and hasn't been replicated in any other skills.

Edited by LokiAuric
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