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ensid

New Heroes

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Hello,

From time to time there's a patch that balance existing content, will we get new heroes anytime soon? As you can see there's still slot for 4 agility heroes and 1 strength.

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Great detective work! They'll have no other choice but to fill those blanks with heroes! Looking forward to your next case! Maybe some empty slots in my wallet?

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HoN is not supported anymore, they stopped releasing skins, was wondering if that is applied also to heroes.

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It woulda rock my world if they actually pomped out new heroes and HoNTour coming back XD

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4 hours ago, ensid said:

HoN is not supported anymore, they stopped releasing skins, was wondering if that is applied also to heroes.

Pretty sure skins / alts are way easier than heroes; you can most likely just buy existing concepts, or just task any asian animation studio with it for a couple of grand. Hero design however needs understanding of the game, designers etc. plus new alts as well so that one is much harder to achieve nowadays.

 

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Hello,

currently the priorities are simply different. Whether or not there will be new skins or heroes is not 100% decided. You need to be patient.

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Posted (edited)

Hey, is Engineer already an Intelligence hero? The picture is out of date I believe. So, 15 slots is empty for intelligence hero I guess.

Edit: Also additional 1 empty slots for Agility, so it's 5 empty slots for Agility heroes.

Edited by datfizh
Forgot about Agility.

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Actually creating heroes isn't that hard in terms of technical skills. Everyone can basically create heroes with mods (you just can't play or pick them in actual games).
However there's the issue of balance which is already hard for skill-changes but incredibly hard for entire heroes. There's no more SBT, so there's no group of people that could do that.
In addition to that, there's also the problem that we already have a huge lot of heroes. Some of which are already rarely picked and a lot that are simply not performing well or are not fun. At a certain point you simply can't make every hero balanced.

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Posted (edited)

The main issues with the release of any new hero are the following:

 

1) Must fulfill a niche/function in HoN that isn't fulfilled well enough yet

2) Professional art assets + art assets for at least 1 alt avatar

3) Professional sound assets

4) Marketing material (e.g. motion graphics)

 

All points other than the first cost a lot of money.

___

 

While all of these are the major barriers, #1 is the reason why I am incredibly hesitant on implementing any new hero - HoN does NOT need new heroes at this time as the hero pool is already saturated, and multiple issues with the current hero pool need to be properly fixed before this is even considered.

Edited by ElementUser
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Posted (edited)
55 minutes ago, ElementUser said:

The main issues with the release of any new hero are the following:

 

1) Must fulfill a niche/function in HoN that isn't fulfilled well enough yet

2) Professional art assets + art assets for at least 1 alt avatar

3) Professional sound assets

4) Marketing material (e.g. motion graphics)

 

All points other than the first cost a lot of money.

___

 

While all of these are the major barriers, #1 is the reason why I am incredibly hesitant on implementing any new hero - HoN does NOT need new heroes at this time as the hero pool is already saturated, and multiple issues with the current hero pool need to be properly fixed before this is even considered.

If people could volunteer? I'm sure we still got some talented people out there.

I'm a sound designer. I could do the sound design (for free ofc.) 

Edited by queentia

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3 hours ago, queentia said:

If people could volunteer? I'm sure we still got some talented people out there.

I'm a sound designer. I could do the sound design (for free ofc.) 

Again it's moreso Point #1. And even if we do get free quality SFX, that doesn't exclude the other points I mentioned.

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On 4/25/2020 at 7:57 AM, ElementUser said:

The main issues with the release of any new hero are the following:

 

1) Must fulfill a niche/function in HoN that isn't fulfilled well enough yet

2) Professional art assets + art assets for at least 1 alt avatar

3) Professional sound assets

4) Marketing material (e.g. motion graphics)

 

All points other than the first cost a lot of money.

___

 

While all of these are the major barriers, #1 is the reason why I am incredibly hesitant on implementing any new hero - HoN does NOT need new heroes at this time as the hero pool is already saturated, and multiple issues with the current hero pool need to be properly fixed before this is even considered.

Great point.

 

Could rework heroes like nitro much easier than making an entirely new one.

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11 hours ago, budaslap said:

Great point.

 

Could rework heroes like nitro much easier than making an entirely new one.

Actually I think some heroes could be removed entirely from the game and nothing would change. For example engineer. I liked to play him back in the days as a support but it doesnt make sense, there're plenty of better supports in the game, no need to pick him at all. He couldnt even carry as an agility hero. 

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4 hours ago, ensid said:

Actually I think some heroes could be removed entirely from the game and nothing would change. For example engineer. I liked to play him back in the days as a support but it doesnt make sense, there're plenty of better supports in the game, no need to pick him at all. He couldnt even carry as an agility hero. 

You'll piss off a lot of people by saying that XD 

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4 hours ago, aseemdoom said:

You'll piss off a lot of people by saying that XD 

He got triggered by someone demanded Nitro rework. XD

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10 hours ago, ensid said:

Actually I think some heroes could be removed entirely from the game and nothing would change. For example engineer. I liked to play him back in the days as a support but it doesnt make sense, there're plenty of better supports in the game, no need to pick him at all. He couldnt even carry as an agility hero. 

*Tobakaz entered the chat with ANGRY FACE*

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Heroes can't really be removed due to SEA. Other than that I'd also much rather see changes to the current heroes than new ones.

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Actually i dont care about nitro, I hate that hero, I dont like playing it, dont like to have her in my team or against. I loved Engineer back in the days, I swear but now he doesnt keep up with other heroes thats all. I never thought about him as a carry (maybe when he was OP with turret or lately before rewind back to support again). Thats just my opinion, but Id like to hear some arguments about his utility.

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, ensid said:

Actually i dont care about nitro, I hate that hero, I dont like playing it, dont like to have her in my team or against. I loved Engineer back in the days, I swear but now he doesnt keep up with other heroes thats all. I never thought about him as a carry (maybe when he was OP with turret or lately before rewind back to support again). Thats just my opinion, but Id like to hear some arguments about his utility.

He got changed to Int this patch & his win rate shot up from 46% to around 50%. Don't know what else you want from the hero, he's good.

 

Energy Field is one of the game's best ultimates for crowd control, so........

Edited by ElementUser
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Just now, ElementUser said:

He got changed to Int this patch & his win rate shot up from 46% to around 50%. Don't know what else you want from the hero, he's good.

Win ratio is not everything about balance. I stopped playing, buying coins and following HoN scene before 4.0 because it ruined the game, many things got reversed back and back then when I was paying attention to tournaments etc plenty of heroes had ~45-50% win ratio but ALWAYS same heroes were played. Over and over again same heroes were picked. I aint no pro, when was playing FoC my max rating was 1850 so its far from being decent tbh but also not an ultra noob and then and now I would never, ever picked Engineer over Pearl, Rhapsody, Martyr, Monarch or Empath.

Dont take this as an attack, I still do enjoy playing midwars from time to time because new map is unbearable for me along with double kongors and sui meta for 10 years with players insta picking junglers and being afk for 15minutes. I still think game is healthier than it was after 3.9x hit with adrenaline and to the statemtn HoN is not getting any support anymore. You did hell a good job and you still do, sadly hon developers took terrible approach of balance and what they wanted hon to be, thats my opinion.

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I learned this a long time ago... A hero needs to have value for all aspects of the community. Whether it is competitive, casual or other, it needs to have some value to every demographic and it needs to have a place. Flashback to the movement, stun, tapering slow heroes that all came out one after the other, the lack of identity outside of their art assets was a debilitating factor to the game.

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I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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2 hours ago, ensid said:

plenty of heroes had ~45-50% win ratio but ALWAYS same heroes were played. Over and over again same heroes were picked

The reason you see the same heroes picked is because those heroes are usually the easier ones to play

Engineer has a really high skill cap, meaning if you don't have experience and practice on the hero, you'll probably do poorly

 

2 hours ago, ensid said:

I would never, ever picked Engineer over Pearl, Rhapsody, Martyr, Monarch or Empath.

These heroes that you mentioned are heroes that, while still require some skill, are very easy to play. That's why they are so popular.

you know why you don't see carry calamity so often? Or saphire? It's not only because they are weak, it's because very few people have enough experience with them to play a rough tmm game, and they won't risk it to learn if it means they'll lose mmr

I like to give my favorite hero as an example (Berserker)

It's a not so popular hero, with a low win rate and easily countered by void talisman, BUT, I've gained so much practice on it that I have 94% win rate with it on high TMM, mainly because I've played with it so much that I know exactly against which heroes it's viable, what items i should get and how aggressive on the game i should be.

If you practice engineer enough, you'll see that this hero can be VERY impactfull, even with 0 items


The princess is always in another castle

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59 minutes ago, LennyXX said:

The reason you see the same heroes picked is because those heroes are usually the easier ones to play

Engineer has a really high skill cap, meaning if you don't have experience and practice on the hero, you'll probably do poorly

 

These heroes that you mentioned are heroes that, while still require some skill, are very easy to play. That's why they are so popular.

you know why you don't see carry calamity so often? Or saphire? It's not only because they are weak, it's because very few people have enough experience with them to play a rough tmm game, and they won't risk it to learn if it means they'll lose mmr

I like to give my favorite hero as an example (Berserker)

It's a not so popular hero, with a low win rate and easily countered by void talisman, BUT, I've gained so much practice on it that I have 94% win rate with it on high TMM, mainly because I've played with it so much that I know exactly against which heroes it's viable, what items i should get and how aggressive on the game i should be.

If you practice engineer enough, you'll see that this hero can be VERY impactfull, even with 0 items

 

I was talking about tournaments, HoN tours etc not normal TMM games. Same heroes were picked through all these years, nothing changed. 

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Posted (edited)

As some of the old comp. players used to tell me when we theorycrafted, when money and a tournament is on the line you want to play your absolute best.

It just so happens that many of their bests were old heroes with legacy to them. Its not that innovation was bad, its just the work going into it was usually better spent elsewhere. Note that this wasn't always the case of course but it was a big defining factor.

I should also add that Engineer still offers some great recon abilities, despite the unreliable stun. Steam Turret is an insanely efficient pushing tool and Energy Field is one of the best counter-initiates in the game.

Edited by Hubaris

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Posted (edited)

I'd rather an Engineer in any duo longlane as the ranged support than literally any other hero. The hero is super strong when played properly and offers so much to the team. Makes any double stun lane pretty much a 100 % to 0 % HP nuke lane if you actually use mines properly and not like a degenerate.

If you don't max mines first you're playing Engi wrong. If you don't know how to manually detonate mines you're also playing Engi wrong. Plain and simple.

https://imgur.com/a/wzQjyNe

^ That's all support engi in duo longlanes shrug. People just suck at the hero so that's the only reason people call the hero bad >.> I haven't seen pretty much anyone play Engineer properly ever. They too busy setting up mine traps than actually playing the game.

Edited by Reo

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