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Due to various flaws i see in the hero: low skill floor and ceiling, lack of meaningful player input, frustration factors, inadequate mechanics that fail to realize the hero's theme and fantasy, i'd like to propose some changes.

 

 

Q: Silencing Shot: Is now a skill shot, shoots an arrow that deals damage and silences the first enemy hero hit. Cooldown reduced to 8s, projectile range increased to 1000, cast range remains 700, silence duration rescaled to 1.5/2.25/3/3.75s, other numbers stay the same, or rebalanced. Can target enemy hero to dual target them, similar to Witch Slayer and Fayde's stun that you can get longer range by using skill shot (still won't proc nullstone). This means enemies can block the skill shot for one another.

 

Reasoning: Increasing payoff ceiling, maintaining skill floor and introducing counter play. This is to make EW more viable in more capable hands while still make him friendly to new players, reducing the performance gap between pub games and competitive games. It makes sense with the long cast time but fast projectile speed of the spell.

 

 

W: Hunter's Command: Now instead summons 2 invulnerable wolves that follow you around for 8s. The wolves will automatically rush the 2 closet enemy heroes within 1000 range, expiring (won't attack the same target). When Silencing Shot is used, the idling wolves will seek out foes toward that direction then expire upon reaching it. (The wolves will travel for 1000 range over 1.5s - Silencing Shot's range - rushing enemy heroes that comes into their detect range) before disappearing, seeking enemies up to 2000 range away from the point Silencing Shot was casted. Other numbers stay the same, except removing x0.5 damage to enemies you don't see i guess.

 

Reasoning: Again, same reason with Q changes, i increased payoff ceiling while maintaining the skill floor while introducing counter play and reducing frustration. Preemptive use of W allows to effectively reduce cooldown between 2 uses. Without incurring the current penalty of 50% reduced damage while fishing for enemies, i increased the mana cost necessary to spam 2000 range nuke by coupling in Q's usage. Further more, instead of locking on instantly, you have a 2s period while the wolves travel to get out of its maximum effective range, as it now needs 2s to lock on to enemies at 2000 range away. The skill still functions the same way it does currently within 1000 range of EW, just with higher payoff otherwise with more mechanics with more demanding costs. Further more, deepening the fantasy flavor.

 

 

E: Overgrowth: Remove manual detonating, lower setting duration to 1s, range increased to 700. Manually donating trap is clunky, the delay before being able to do so encourages EW to move in closer to intercept movement, which makes him forsakes his advantage of having 625 attack range. Not mentioning disrupting game flow. D button also unhelpful in situations of having multiple traps around. With the recent Engineer change, this makes sense.

 

Reduce duration to 1.4/1.8/2.2/2.6s. Overgrowth is now invulnerable while setting and after detonation, can be destroyed while dormant by enemy attacks without triggering. Remove detonation delay (i have seen situations where someone triggering the trap and doesn't get trapped due to a slight delay). Make Overgrowth an ongoing effect, which means enemies entering the area after detonation will still get debuffed for the remaining duration. Can only be affected once per trap, meaning if you are freed for any reason you won't get entangled again. Heroes immobilized by Overgrowth gain 50% duration reduction from subsequent Overgrowths for 8s, refreshing each time affected. Other numbers subjected to balancing.

 

Reasoning: Streamlining the spell, manual detonating and being destructible are both obsolete and clunky mechanics proven by time, especially in this case, further increasing the gap between public and competitive games. Instead by introducing a diminishing return effect, we guarantee the spell a certain amount of effectiveness instead of being thoroughly countered by hatchets. Also keep in mind, casting Overgrowth on an enemy is a certain hit should it proc since it's invulnerable setting up, while the enemies can destroy pre-placed traps without triggering them using true sight, thus providing it an element of initiative for you and reasonable counter play for the enemies.

 

 

R: Gawain: Might be controversial to some, but i love this one. This one fulfills the hunter fantasy greatly, having a companion that attacks, confuses and aids. Gawain also provides a high range constant threat that forces enemies to shut you down, making use of your traps and soft cc of slow and silence. But i think there's an oversight, due to its movement, Gawain sometimes doesn't attack the hero that you are currently attacking, being out of range. Thematically, i'd say Gawain should be able to see further, reach further than the Emerald Warden can, being his watch bird and all. Increase the attack and vision radius from 650 to 675, preventing idling even when the hero attacks enemy. That's all.

 

Sotm effect: In additional with current effect, W now summons 4 wolves.

Edited by Rezziedahl
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I don't have time to get into a huge dive into Emerald Warden, but I can give my initial thoughts on reading.

I love traps and anything that makes them less clunky (even if that means removal of manual detonation) is good. I would seriously much rather see them as traps for vision and to cut off escape routes, allowing EW to rout people. So I can agree with you here. I also think that Gawain could use a little bit of a touch up, but not too much as it is in fact a source of frustration for some players as it is basically an uninteractable facet of the hero (or at worse, a fancy Steroid).

I feel like your changes to Hunter's Command (W) is a little complex for very little gain, the hero was made to be a low skill hero and that's honestly fine. There is a place for that in the game as long as the reward isn't too good. I'm 50/50 on Silencing Shot honestly and don't have much more to add to it.

Ultimately he's fine to be an easy to use hero, if anything I think we should shoot to making Traps a more core part of the hunter fantasy as they can be used simply or with depth. There are (IMO) the most interesting part of the hero and if you wanted to add complexity and increase his ceiling, this would be the place to do it.

I need to know something, Newerth. The way we used to be together... I... I don't mean lately, but before... It was real, wasn't it?

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Honestly. i want to say 1s silence at lv 1 is awfull, like the skill is exsit only to cancel Grip/channel skill.

Ortherwise, ew is fine, he is my favourite hero and can be used in any game

P/s. Make some QoL for his SOTM plz, everytime the buffed allies die, the skill lost and go on Cd, you need to get close to your allies to cast in again (2k cast range)

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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Some remarks here:

if Q is a skill shot it would make more sense to make it deal damage to all targets its passing. E.g. deals xx damage (damge could even be increasing depending on how many targets hit) and silences the first enemy hero hit. Silence could be a flat 2s while damage increases per level. Something like that. It would grant EW more farming potential (which would come in handy)

I don't see the need to change the W to be honest. Sounds a bit too far off and a bit unnecessary.

Placing and activating traps requires a little bit of skill at least. Also it is basically EWs main escape. Unless traps have an instant cast/detonation time when an enemy is above I would not remove the functionality to manually trigger them. I do agree, they feel a bit clunky atm.

 

R is okay atm. Compared to other ultimates it could be considered as a weaker one. I could think of 2 possible changes which would fit the hunter role: When it hits an enemy the enemy is in a revealed state for x seconds. Or: On activation it reveals enemies/wards in a small area xx seconds cooldown

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I have made revisions to Q,W and E and rewritten my post to be clearer and easier to navigate, please go over it again for my newest fine tuning ideas. I also provided more detailed, clean reasonings for the changes.

 

I've made sure that even with the changes, EW will still feel largely the same to play in most cases: you can still click heroes with Q, W still reliable in lane, E is much better now just without manual detonating.

 

I see people are confused about why i think W should be changed. Well the biggest reason it would it got nerfed with 50% damage penalty while the hero is already being a meme. It's an incredibly frustrating gimmick, broken among new and low skill players, that it warrants a nerf even if the hero is on the weak side overall. Keep in mind that it still functions the same way, by limiting the spam range of its own to 1000 range, locking the extended range to Q's usage, i increased the manacost for long range harass while keeping the lane poking intact, eliminating the damage penalty. By removing this exact reason for frustration and brokenness among new/low skill players, i believe we open space to polish EW further, making him a fun hero that's viable competitively that's not only a noob slayer.

 

Edit: Changed subsequent Overgrowth reduction effect to heroes only.

 

Edited by Rezziedahl
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On 11/17/2020 at 10:55 PM, hegelsohn said:

Some remarks here:

if Q is a skill shot it would make more sense to make it deal damage to all targets its passing. E.g. deals xx damage (damge could even be increasing depending on how many targets hit) and silences the first enemy hero hit. Silence could be a flat 2s while damage increases per level. Something like that. It would grant EW more farming potential (which would come in handy)

I don't see the need to change the W to be honest. Sounds a bit too far off and a bit unnecessary.

Placing and activating traps requires a little bit of skill at least. Also it is basically EWs main escape. Unless traps have an instant cast/detonation time when an enemy is above I would not remove the functionality to manually trigger them. I do agree, they feel a bit clunky atm.

 

R is okay atm. Compared to other ultimates it could be considered as a weaker one. I could think of 2 possible changes which would fit the hunter role: When it hits an enemy the enemy is in a revealed state for x seconds. Or: On activation it reveals enemies/wards in a small area xx seconds cooldown

 

I have considered that, however i've also made some new changes to Overgrowth, which should also increases EW's farm, so for now i don't think EW needs more farming tools, and opted for it to be closer to current version.

 

For better visualization, new W's usage would be as follow: you activate and spawn 2 wolves, they will function the same as they currently do by pouncing on targets within 1000 range, if not they will remain for 8s until they find a target. By using Q, you can send them off toward a direction for 1000 range, increasing their effective range by another 1000 range toward that direction, making it 2000 range total - same as current range, except that there's a delay period when enemies can get out of range.

 

This is a clever way to separate W's effectiveness in lane and in fights, from its long range harassing capability, making it 2 different things with 2 different costs.

Edited by Rezziedahl
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  • 2 months later...

Q's mechanic tying in with W is cool - but only on the conceptual level. Practically speaking even when mid-game rolls around, players won't actually do this because of the mana consumption, and the fact that Q is a spell that does something substantial. You're linking 2 skills together and forcing them to be used in a certain way to get the scouting utility, and you're vulnerable for that time period if you get jumped on.

 

The only thing E needs is a root duration that scales based on how long it has taken to "set" before you manually detonate it, if you choose to manually detonate it as an on-demand AoE root. Rather than making the result be binary  (of rooting the enemy or not), this actually is a skill check & prevents stupid stuff from happening in the laning phase like EW rooting + damaging you for a good chunk of damage in the laning phase whenever he wants to.
 

R can get slightly increased range/vision, that is fine since it is a small number tweak.

Edited by ElementUser
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/27/2021 at 9:41 PM, ElementUser said:

Q's mechanic tying in with W is cool - but only on the conceptual level. Practically speaking even when mid-game rolls around, players won't actually do this because of the mana consumption, and the fact that Q is a spell that does something substantial. You're linking 2 skills together and forcing them to be used in a certain way to get the scouting utility, and you're vulnerable for that time period if you get jumped on.

 

The only thing E needs is a root duration that scales based on how long it has taken to "set" before you manually detonate it, if you choose to manually detonate it as an on-demand AoE root. Rather than making the result be binary  (of rooting the enemy or not), this actually is a skill check & prevents stupid stuff from happening in the laning phase like EW rooting + damaging you for a good chunk of damage in the laning phase whenever he wants to.
 

R can get slightly increased range/vision, that is fine since it is a small number tweak.

I suggest changing it to SOTM.
remove the one that is now and do:
1) his ultimate now has a static radius of 650, I propose with SOTM to make this radius directly dependent on the attack range +25.
That is, when buying a Wingbow, the attack range of EW will become 725, and the range of the ultimate will become 750.
2) In addition, SOTM would passively give +25/50/75 attack range, depending on the level of the ultimate.

So with wingbow, SOTM and level 3 ultimate, EW will have 800 attack range and 825 ultimate range.
This allowed EW to find the enemy at night faster than she collides with him face to face, and before he approaches, she will have time to slow down the enemy with wolves, set a trap and generally change her mind about going in that direction.

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On 3/13/2021 at 4:21 AM, Rage_100 said:

I suggest changing it to SOTM.
remove the one that is now and do:
1) his ultimate now has a static radius of 650, I propose with SOTM to make this radius directly dependent on the attack range +25.
That is, when buying a Wingbow, the attack range of EW will become 725, and the range of the ultimate will become 750.
2) In addition, SOTM would passively give +25/50/75 attack range, depending on the level of the ultimate.

So with wingbow, SOTM and level 3 ultimate, EW will have 800 attack range and 825 ultimate range.
This allowed EW to find the enemy at night faster than she collides with him face to face, and before he approaches, she will have time to slow down the enemy with wolves, set a trap and generally change her mind about going in that direction.

problem i see with that is that EW has permanent vision around himself which means he can't really be juked but can juke easily. Pairing that with superior base level attackrange is NOT a good idea in my opinion. The bird is already toxic enough in that sense 😛

I'd much rather see the bird being permanently passive and only providing vision, but has to be activated to be able to attack and use it's abilities. Cause atm it is free damage, free vision, free heal, free slow and cooldowns are low as fuck for a passive of that volume.
Make it activatable, give it 5/7/9 seconds duration and 25 seconds cooldown. Staff increases duration by 3 second and gives a numbers buff.
Gawain under those conditions when activated will now passively attack once every second for x damage (have it SLIGHTLY scale with the level of the ability so the total amount of potential damage dealt does scale properly)
and gains slow at level 2 (each attack slowing for 10%, stacks with other slows by EW!!!! but not with itself) and heal at level 3 (heals EW for 10% of his max HP upon activating and once every 4 seconds).

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