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I've spent a little bit of time fooling around with Nitro in Test matches and I have noticed that despite her full rework, the issue with her, or rather the frustraiont, is exactly the same as before.
The only thing that changed it is the mechanic that caused it.

Initially what made Nitro so frustrating is her ability to harass you as she chased you or ran away from you while staying out of reach, if the Nitro player was mechanically skilled enough. Also her ability to attack invisibile or hidden targets added to that.

Currently Melee heroes face the exact same, if not worse scenario, maybe even worse than with Adrenaline.
Here is a quick rundown:

Her Shrapnels that she will spawn behind you will either deal damage to you as you move away from her or do nothing as you stand still or move closer.
So unless you have a reason to not engage with her, the incentive would be to attack her as she is also fairly squishy.
That is in particular where the exact same frustration as before hits.
She will stay out of reach but even if you manage to reach her, she will push you back and not only are you out of her reach again, she also threw you back through a vast amount of Shrapnels so effectively you engaging with her made no difference. and this is early game level 2.
If she has the ability to punish you PASSIVELY from creating distance (referring to the Shrapnels as such, not the ability itself), she should NOT be able to punish you for engaging her too.
The issue is exactly the same, you are kept away from her.

In theory the rework was great but it just changed the mechanic she uses to cause the exact same issue and it is not as persistant and permanent anymore.

I also thought of two options to "fix" that aspect without taking away the core essence of her kit or changing too much of her playstyle (even moving her a tiny bit closer to where she may have been before:

 

a) remove the knockback from her W and replace it with a shot that is fired in a straight line and deals damage through opponents it passes through and slows them by 30% for x seconds (slow value should not scale but the duration should), potentially breaking affected targets armour by x% for x seconds too if that si considered too weak. This way she still has a tool to keep distance and also use it to farm (and it still remains the exact same core mechanic of her old ballistics), but its not replacing auto attacks and its not punishing you for doing the one thing her other abilitiy practically forces you to do.

-OR-


b) entirely remove the shrapnels or spawn only one shrapnel per attack AT A RANDOM POSITION in a 120° cone within x units radius behind the target (this way you dont get pushed through 20 shrapnels by her W), and if removed replace them by bushwacks old splinter mechanic that dealt damage behind opponents he attacked in a small cone.
That would allow her to actually farm properly or push thus allowing her to utilize created space to be less of a "ill kill you in 5 seconds and then get obliterated myself" lategame hero, she currently is (plus she would actually also have the potential to be of use in midgame too xD).

Edited by MerryHONmas
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5 hours ago, RUS_AGENT007 said:

Remove nitro from the game until she fixed

while i do agree with that its not really helpful feedback xD
there are a handful of heroes that should simply not exist.
played a ntro match yesterday just to test my theory and i completely obliterated the opponents team, had multiple combo kills and absolutely ran over a fed madman that was supported by an ichor!

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22 hours ago, twoscoopsREE said:

MUH frustration. Hero bad, it harass. remove hero!!! Arachna bad, too but no remove!!!

The pronoun is THEM, ya shitlord.

now again in english please and with content that actually supports any argument or coutnerargument, "ya shitlord"

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1 hour ago, w3wstarboy said:

IF archana go 1vs1 with you, will you complain her being broken in term of harrassment?

no?
because you can make the decision of facing her or avoiding her.
if you try to avoid nitro you take her bonus damage, if you face her, she pushes you back, through her bonus damage, essentially nullifying the descicion you just made.

THATS my problem with nitro, that regardless of what decision you made, her pushback nullifies it

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I think it is the same, Archana and Nitro design is smilar but work in different way. Nitro is excel with keeping distance to enemy while Archana is vulnerable for both melee and caster. On some caster,s remove debuff mean remove all of their damage and that suck

Talking that Avoid nitro is meaning of taking her Q damage is laughable. It is likely dont go last hit so Archana cant slow you.  

One more thing: Pick Ranged heroes, dont cry on your melee heroes

Edited by w3_StarBoy
Fix grammar

HoN SEA Player

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22 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

I think it is the same, Archana and Nitro design is smilar but work in different way. Nitro is excel with keeping distance to enemy while Archana is vulnerable for both melee and caster. On some caster,s remove debuff mean remove all of their damage and that suck

Talking that Avoid nitro is meaning of taking her Q damage is laughable. It is likely dont go last hit so Archana cant slow you.  

One more thing: Pick Ranged heroes, dont cry on your melee heroes

you are entirely missing my point of nitro being the only hero entirely circumventing the decision her opponent is making but that's okay.
to clarify, this is not a "nitro op, nerf plox" thread!
this is me raising concern over how her abilities interacting invalidate the choice you forces you to make, which is counterintuitive and while she is absolutely underwhelming early game it is simply an unessecary frustration factor that has no benefits nor merit to it and could EASILY be fixed by simply exchanging one mechanic with an existing one that serves the same purpose.

Edited by MerryHONmas
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Any disable prevents you from making choices anyway, and Nitro simply has a stun. I don't think the problem is that she has a stun, but that the combination of Q's orb walk + damage and W's stun knockback is too effective and threatening in the early game, when you don't have enough options to counter or endure it.

Simple solution, nerf Q's shrapnel damage at lvl 1 and 2 and/or increase manacost. If you can't go against her 1v1, which i think should be an intended feature, then you should have an option to endure her.

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8 hours ago, Rezziedahl said:

Any disable prevents you from making choices anyway, and Nitro simply has a stun. I don't think the problem is that she has a stun, but that the combination of Q's orb walk + damage and W's stun knockback is too effective and threatening in the early game, when you don't have enough options to counter or endure it.

Simple solution, nerf Q's shrapnel damage at lvl 1 and 2 and/or increase manacost. If you can't go against her 1v1, which i think should be an intended feature, then you should have an option to endure her.

not sure if you are arguing against me or trying to prove my point because you just did the latter while it sounded like you were trying to do the former xD
i have at no point complained about her knockback entailing a stun, the issue is that if you decide to run away you take her chip damage and if you decide to face her off she will knock you into that chip damage effectively nullifying your decision. imagine bloodhunter had gladiators showdown, if you decide to manup youll have to deal with elongated silence and if you decide to teleport out he just brings you back.
this game is about strategical and tactical decision making and nitro herself is able to involuntarily for any opponent nullify the descision they may have made. that should not be possible.
remove the knockback and turn it into a slow and the purpose of it, to allow her to keep her distance, remains the same, but she won't be able to nullify the descision her mechanic forced upon you regardless of which option you go for.

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I was saying that Nitro depriving you of decision making in itself is not bad, just like any other hero with stun. She's just over the top due to it being too powerful in the early laning phase, in which case nerfs are fine without needing any design changes.

Nitro needs a push back to make her Q complete, there's no item choices that forces enemies back even though there is PK as an item to bypass a number of heroes' limitations. If there's no pushback mechanic on the hero then Q won't function as a skill.

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The power of nitro herself is not on her early lane phase. When she get rework early patch, his Q W stay the same with a small fix on her W, and yet 30% win rate. You can see all the buff and nerf on her until now focus on her ganking and carrier, survival.

She's just annoying early, no simple special, that's how orb walking work

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