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Moira[ [4.8.6]


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Since her inception Moira has been continuously nerfed almost into oblivion. She has received Exactly ONE buff in the form of SOTM to her Ultimate which makes it Lethal, Increases Radius, and adds a heal to allies. Yet Moira has NO farming capability, is pretty much a support and why the hell would she spend 4.2K to get an item to let her ult do an additional 200-400 healing at mid to end game. Really? Who even gets STAFF at level 6 to do HEALING. No damage increase.

 

While Moira potentially has an extremely powerful Kit, the nerfs and restrictions ensure she is extremely handicapped. Her Illusion is the only part of her kit that offers her serious utility. But it has a 90 second cooldown. There is no ability in her kit that offers any significant, scaling, or comparable utility that would make her a good choice. So for 2/3rds of the time she is in play (Assuming a 30 sec duration and 90 sec cooldown and that the cooldown is active while the skill is active) She is stuck with 3 skill for 60 out of every 90 seconds. And those 3 skills, especially her W are very lackluster compared with any other skill. Not to mention the limited Ranges, High mana Cost, low damage output and relatively long cooldowns

Restrictions/Handicaps
1. Mana Intensive counter to stat progression
Moira is a AGI hero, (For what reason I have no idea), even though she has -4- Active abilities Each costing 100+ Mana (130, 100,110,275)
She starts with highest stat in Int (30) with Str and Agi following at 19/23.

2. Low Non-Scaling Damage Output
Her Exponential Scaling skill is her W  which scales from 2 to 3.5x Target int.
Her combined max damage output for spamming everything is around 1000 to a single target if she uses her W on a target with 120 Int. Why does it scale off Int instead of Mana? So she can do what 25 damage if she hits a level 1 hero for 100 Mana.

3. (This should probably be 1 but oh well) Range
Her Attack Range, Cast Range and Trigger Range on her Q and the rest of her spells is 550.  She is out ranged by most ranged carries,and HAS NO range closer aside from her Ult. (60 Sec cooldown)

4. Slow (290) Runspeed
As a supposed ganker, she has NO closing speed 

5. Her Q (Shards of Harkon)
Its a great multi target disable, but is so easily negated by her slow move speed, the delayed trigger action, and the  short trigger range, that any ranged opponent with 600 range can just pick at her until she dies unless she her ult. If she doesnt they just sit out of her range and she may as well lay down and play dead.


6. Over nerfed E.. Really the only reason for Moira is her utility from this skill and it is HEAVILY nerfed.

a. Scale nerfing. Duration  scales from 12-39 seconds (cooldown is 90 Seconds) , Range scales from 2500 to 5000  , No other bonuses (Allows use of skills twice at most beyond level 1) A 90 Second Cooldown. Is this her Ult or an actual skill? S

b. 3 Sec Channel On Use, + Is Visible to enemies within 1000 units on channel. and Moira is Disabled while controlling illusion.   The Long channel time, and the forced visibility make it much easier to avoid

c. The illusion takes 250% damage even though you can't combine Moira and her illusions capabilities to fight like you can with EVERY other illusion in game


7. Mana
Moira and her illusion essentially share the same mana pool, so there's no real benefit to getting her real body involved in a fight half the time. Since if the illusion fights or initiates, moira will be low on mana after so she cant' even go in for a second round.

8. Item Nerf
Moira's illusion is unable to use quite a few items that allow her some more utility that would be really helpful
Alchemist Bones
Ioyn  Stone
Power Supply
Any Consumables

Portal Key Cooldown on illusion. As if the illusion didnt have a 3 sec time till you can use it you then have to wait an additional 3-4 secs to use pk

 


9. Farm
Moira really shouldnt be farming, and has such horrible farm potential that anything beyond babysitting with an orb is really not earning her much. Not to mention that using her E is a basic death sentence unless she goes and hides first. She cant even switch back and forth between her illusion  so she's stuck with an unusable illusion sitting around if she has to switch off for any reason.

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The problem is that her niche is incredibly powerful on a conceptual level. Virtually risk-free ganking & long range assistance.

 

Portal Key on her mimic was put on cooldown once channeling completes to avoid summoning the Mimic out of vision & reach of an enemy & then having a 1250 range extension on demand.

 

In general, the hero is a support hero & is not meant to scale well in terms of damage, but maintain the intangible benefits offered by her utility (like most supports).

 

Moira is fine & is still picked up in competitive play.

Edited by ElementUser
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This hero is closer to being OP than weak, as EU says, risk free ganking on a support, and also a stun that CANNOT miss in fog.  To me that's always been an OP part of the hero (I believe it was changed early on in the heroes reliease) 

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The point is not in the range of the battle, not in the expenditure of mana, the point is that by choosing moira, you doom yourself to 2 skills in every second battle.
there should not be more than 1 skill with a high CD, because of this you run with 2 close skills as a dodger who has dominant intelligence and intelligence items.
Although now I thought ... why the third skill would not give some kind of passive increase, for example 5/10/15/20 running speed.
After all, when the third skill is on CD, you lose your mobility, and yes, you have to run at 290 speed, and at 310 speed you will no longer feel like a character with two skills.

+ could reduce CD by 3rd skill in midwar mode

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but he is essentially 1.5 heros in 1 so i disagree with that statement. mana is a brutally well designed hero but due to the anture of the game her unique mechanics make her terribly difficult to balance.
i personally feel like her forge has a high cd too but as someone who abused it years ago when it had low cd... its better this way.

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6 hours ago, Rage_100 said:

The point is not in the range of the battle, not in the expenditure of mana, the point is that by choosing moira, you doom yourself to 2 skills in every second battle.
there should not be more than 1 skill with a high CD, because of this you run with 2 close skills as a dodger who has dominant intelligence and intelligence items.
Although now I thought ... why the third skill would not give some kind of passive increase, for example 5/10/15/20 running speed.
After all, when the third skill is on CD, you lose your mobility, and yes, you have to run at 290 speed, and at 310 speed you will no longer feel like a character with two skills.

+ could reduce CD by 3rd skill in midwar mode

 

Those "2 skills" by themselves are already really good. 

Edited by ElementUser
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Her W/Mana Sunder is somewhat of a joking ability. Comparable with every other silence. Less range, less duration (except for Kinesis ), Less damage than those that do damage, (At least unless you manage to hit a level 25 in build, but you'd really need to be doing that at 14-16 for it to be considered powerful). Your best hope is for that 1 sec extension for it to kick in for a longer debuff. But lets be real thats an short term interruption for any hero except scout (if trying to stealth). Any blink abilities are all low enough mana cost that they dont even need to wait for more than a half second for enough mana to escape after the effect starts to wear off. Most every other silence does something useful or has a much longer duration.

Compared to other ranged silences. Its the shortest range and theonly shorter duration
EW 700 Range + attack damage Duration 1 - 4 seconds

Vindy 700 Cast range + area effect, + 50% Slow + Crit Damage bonus. 1.3 - 2.5 sec duration

Monargh 600 cast Range + DOT + 1.5-3 sec Duration + Mini Stun

Kinesis 2 Secs 800 Range

Defiler Range 900   3-6 Seconds

BH Range 800 Duration 4 seconds + DOT

 

Really her stun is her only really good skill but then its got that cast time, and double trigger delays.   Any use outside of her initiation and they can just sit back and watch it wear off, because you sit there hoping they come into your meager trigger range. Meanwhile the majority of the ranged hero's just sit safely out of range and continue to hit you, while you either approach dreadfully slowly and get kited or turn to run with the same killed by someone forever out of range because you move slow as hell.

How often is that "OP" trigger without clear sight necessary that its somehow a fear requiring a whole second after casting to avoid her 1 non ult disable. 

 

Moira is like lottery tickets costing $1000, not because there isn't a 1 in 26 billion chance of winning, but because the jackpot is  high.

 

Its not that the 2 skills left to her aren't good. They are just so handicapped, there's very little reason to pick her over anyone offering any one of those skills. Just all around better support kits. And more importantly you dont need to dump a crapload of gold into other supports for them to actually be useful.

 

 

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ok why not talk about how OP her W is ?

 + Destroy Mana of a hero equal or more than 5 sec.

+ Scale with Intelligence in late game, can deal more than 400 magic damage

+ Not a debuff and cant be purge

+ can safely cast without worry about your life with her Illusion

Anything else?

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Moira
she has 19 strength, because she is a dodger, and there are only 43 of them, then 28 characters have less than 19 strength and 8 characters like moira. she is on the 8-15th place in strength out of 43 (on average 11.5th place, not bad)

But her strength gain is 1.8, and below 1.8 for dodgers, only 8 characters have a strength gain of less than 1.8 and 6 characters including moira have an increase of 1.8, that is, moira is included in, that is, she is in 30-35 place out of 43 in strength gain. (average 33.5 place)

Starting agility 21, 12 characters are worse than moira, 5 as moira, that is, moira is in 27-31 place in Dexterity (average 29 place)

Agility gain is 2.3, for 3 characters it is less, for 3 characters it is the same. Significantly, she is on the 38-40th place in terms of agility gain (on average, 39th place, very bad)

Initial intelligence 30! , and 42 characters have less intelligence, that is, she is number 1 in intelligence among the strongmen, very strong, I tell you ... but no, not much, because a dodger does not need intelligence! After all, what's the point of her mana, if she has nothing to use, she has 2 skills, one eats 130 mana, the other 100, and even a strong man would have enough mana for them. Where does she have so much intelligence. But if you take into account all 4 skills, then yes, it takes a lot of mana, 130, 100, 115 and 275, this is 620 mana  with the help of an illusion, the question is ... why do such a mana consumption, and then give her a lot of intelligence. If there were 22 intelligence, not 30, then Moira would have 8 * 13 = 104 less mana. that is, to make the cost of MP in 120, 80, 100, 220 and intelligence would not have to be done like a magician, nothing would have changed in principle.

Intelligence gain 2.1, 34 characters have less intelligence gain. that is, a well-deserved 9th place out of 43, but again, why is it? for what? but for nothing, because we already have a lot of intelligence, and CD for 3 and 4 skills we have 80 seconds. apparently to fly into battle with two skills every 15 seconds, spending 230 mana on everything.

What about running speed? 290. no one has less, but 8 characters also have 290 running speed, i.e. 36-43 place in running speed (on average 39.5 place, very bad)

Armor 3.94, 41 characters have less armor, only sapphire has more armor than moira. And moira is in 2nd place. But given the initial agility and its gain, I dare to assume that Moira will be in 30+ places in armor in the end.

The attack range is 550, but I will not count on it, it is clear that the andromeda, the queen of the moon will yield, etc., but on average, everyone has 600, because we count among the dodgers, and among the dodgers there are also melee heroes

Attack power 46-54 here, perhaps, too, I will not count, because everything depends on the dexterity of each of the characters, and our moira is all bad with that.
Total
Strength 11.5 place
Strength gain 33.5 place
Agility 29th place
Agility gain 39th
Intellect 1st place
Intelligence gain 9th place
Running speed 39.5 place

We add up all the places, we get 162.5, and now we divide by the number of criteria, we get 23 place on average out of 43, very, very not bad. However, 2 positions do not affect anything here, this is intelligence and its growth, let's count without them and get 152.5, divide by 5 positions and get 30.5 place, and this is only by characteristics. Add to this two skills of 80 sec CD, an often useless second skill, which is not only just an illusion of draining mana, which only confuses the allied magebane, he uses an ultimate on the enemy without MP, and deals ~ 30 damage, due to the fact that the enemy actually has an almost complete MP, and the moira only pumped it out illusory. If she could combine this skill with Magebane, it would be much better. As a result, we have a character with 1 normal skill, this is skill number 1, which cannot farm normally, with the characteristics of a magician in the guise of a dodger. who once every 80 seconds uses the 3rd skill, which they can also easily counter or just leave it, you never know, there are always mistakes, and all we can do is wait another 80 seconds for it.

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50 minutes ago, w3wstarboy said:

ok why not talk about how OP her W is ?

 + Destroy Mana of a hero equal or more than 5 sec.

+ Scale with Intelligence in late game, can deal more than 400 magic damage

+ Not a debuff and cant be purge

+ can safely cast without worry about your life with her Illusion

Anything else?

You talking about useless W?

+ Destroy Mana of a hero equal or more than 5 sec.? no, only 2.5 sec

+ Scale with Intelligence in late game, can deal more than 400 magic damage? 3.5xtarget int, if u have 100 int = 350 magic dmg... 100 int = late magic, 350 magic dmg in late for 1 hero? useless, Pyro have stun with 200 magic dmg and 2.5 sec stun, AOE stun and dmg!. since 7 level pyro 7 level ~7-10min of game? yes? no?

+ can safely cast without worry about your life with her Illusion? 1 time = 80sec.... 80!!!

Edited by Rage_100
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Her W is extremely strong, especially in laning and when it comes to ganking. Moira is a hard support but also got a free initiate. On top she can counter enemies initiates fairly easy. If played correctly she's imho the strongest support by far in the game and buffing her doesn't really make sense. Her kit is great as it is and the nerfs were more than justified. 

I dunno why she isn't more popular however as she is really strong and has a great kit. She basically has no direct counter and counters basically every spell dependent hero herself. 

Edited by hegelsohn
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