New Drunken Master

[qqplatter 6]

Anyone else played the new Drunken Master?  New changes seemed very underwhelming. 

[ElementUser 839]

The primary intention was to not make him as brain-dead to play. The reasonings are listed in the patch notes.

[Hubaris 104]

I feel like the goal was achieved. People complained that all he was an uncounterable blob of damage with the illusion that there was depth to how you used his spells.

Now there is depth, with the added benefit of lowering his floor and increasing his ceiling.

[Whyzozerious 255]

He's okay. Only thing I would suggest to improving drunken master is gaining charge upon kills. 

[w3_StarBoy 12]

2 hours ago, Whyzozerious said:

He's okay. Only thing I would suggest to improving drunken master is gaining charge upon kills. 

Yeah, i also suggest it, the charge only recover HP and gain resistance. You need to drink in order to reduce cooldown Q and W

[Lifewaster 14]

hes maybe not brain-dead to play now, but the new drink mechanic is basically a nerf.

The old Drunken Master had a real good passive buff with his big healing.
It was infinite on your hero whenever u used a skill.
 

Now u need to drink, what is a fun mechanic, but costs a lot of needed mana and
also you lose it when using attacks. Well i did not try it to the limit, but it feels like a nerf,
maybe it is not. 

Perhaps if u want to keep it this way u could give him some staff of the Master Buff,
that brings him back on the pre Patch Level or something.

[Hubaris 104]

I believe it was meant to be a nerf. Drunken did not need buffs.

[Lifewaster 14]

well, he did not need a nerf either.

[Whyzozerious 255]

2 hours ago, Lifewaster said:

hes manew drink mechanic is basically a nerf.

The old Drunken Master had a real good passive buff with his big healing.
It was infinite on your hero whenever u used a skill.

Yeah it was meant to nerf the brain dead aspect of drunken master. However, it does feel weaker now cause of the charge upholds. I do agree that it cost a bit much early game. I would scale the Mana cost due to what it's even worth cause the value is so low that the high mana cost doesn't make sense. Would do like 20/30/40/50 Mana cost.

I don't agree with the stagger nerf. It's harder to burst down blink/dash heroes now. I would bring back the CD reset on stagger, buff the E by giving charges upon death, and reduce mana cost to make drunken better again.

As for staff ideas, it's up in the air. Personally I would increase the damage on ulti and maybe more charges on drink upon death if elementuser gives that mechanic back. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Whyzozerious

[rageking56 0]

Isn't the DM change essentially merging the old old dm with his active drink and its interactions with skills and the reworked dm special? Pretty sure DM was a fairly rare hero to encounter before the initial rework due to him being a bit harder to play than most heroes. Honestly I felt like DM became too much of a brain dead hero after that rework happened ages ago, kind of glad to see part of the version back.

[w3_StarBoy 12]

Old DM also a brain dead Combo hero if you build Riftshard and Shield breaker together

[ensid 9]

8 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

Old DM also a brain dead Combo hero if you build Riftshard and Shield breaker together

3/4 carries are like that ROFL
tarot? oh u got crit for x thousands? cool

moa? same shit 
dm was fine but staff never take a look at OP heroes like bubb for example or bomb with 3(?) sec stun at 1 lvl or even morem they touch average heroes all the time but never legacy heroes because "LeGaCy HeRoEs ArE dOtA hErOeS sO wE cAnT rEmAkE tHeM sO wE fUcK uP oThEr PeRfEcTlY fInE hErOeS" and this crap since 2008 or so

[datfizh 38]

13 hours ago, ensid said:

3/4 carries are like that ROFL
tarot? oh u got crit for x thousands? cool

moa? same shit 
dm was fine but staff never take a look at OP heroes like bubb for example or bomb with 3(?) sec stun at 1 lvl or even morem they touch average heroes all the time but never legacy heroes because "LeGaCy HeRoEs ArE dOtA hErOeS sO wE cAnT rEmAkE tHeM sO wE fUcK uP oThEr PeRfEcTlY fInE hErOeS" and this crap since 2008 or so

Could you be more specific about those legacy heroes? I'm curious because I believe they also get some reworks and several adjustment from time to time.

On topic: Regarding DM, I wish consumed Drink charges from using abilities also heals him so the mana cost of Drink at early level could be justified.

Edited October 8, 2020 by datfizh

[w3_StarBoy 12]

Bubbles is a ogirinal dota hero. He was fine with little tweak on skill. S2 already done it few times

Bomb also fine with 3sec stun at lv 1 with his old skill until Bomb got minor rework, they also nerf it as requested.
Old DM also fine with his old brain dead combo (before rework) because it require 2-DPS item which make DM very easy to be kill or counter. A problem is old DM was too fast and have the ulti null any single spell on him and reduction the damage taken.

Tarot is RNG and many player hate the RNG system. You can one-shot any hero if you cri 4-5 times in a row but a dream is a dream

[MacroHard 151]

9 hours ago, datfizh said:

I wish consumed Drink charges from using abilities also heals him so the mana cost of Drink at early level could be justified.

Best suggestion I’ve read in a long time.

[Rezziedahl 16]

Played DM just now, felt absolutely terrible. There's a few design flaws that need to be addressed.

Drink costs mana, and it's reactive. In order to fight at full capacity, you need to spend 2s to drink, when being initiated on, that's bad. Drink gives only 16 charges and costs 50 mana at level 1, Q+W combo alone costs 180 mana, so you don't have the mana to pre-emptively drink every time there *might* be a fight, that's double bad. You need all 3 spells to be fully functional at lvl3, and now you need to spend an extra 50 mana on top of that, bruh.

Drink only stops feeling clunky when you have it on lvl 3+ and past laning phase, when you have ample mana pool and can take time prepping for any fight. As of now playing DM in lane is like eating a turd sandwich.

And i think all that is solved by lowering manacost to 20/30/40/50, then you can spam it all you like. Because seriously, 2.5 hp/s isn't worth it.

[ScrubFactory 5]

What you are saying is that he needs mana management, which goes for every hero in early game?

[w3_StarBoy 12]

I remember his Drink heal 20hp per charge consume every 4 seconds. A new one is not worth to put one point early because it more cost mana, it channeling and it doesn't give charge when enemy dying within around

[Ondis 39]

On 10/9/2020 at 6:22 AM, ScrubFactory said:

What you are saying is that he needs mana management, which goes for every hero in early game?

No it doesn't like Ra and Rampage for example are very hard to deplete and there's no everything else being done one way is no reason for something else to be done that way. 

[ScrubFactory 5]

Well you just said my statement is wrong so its no done one way?

[datfizh 38]

Nice to have someone approves my suggestion (or it seems likely, no like button pressed). I just want to look new game strategy such as jungle Drunken Master, that's a potential I believe if the consumed charges by abilities heals him.

[Whyzozerious 255]

9 hours ago, datfizh said:

Nice to have someone approves my suggestion (or it seems likely, no like button pressed). I just want to look new game strategy such as jungle Drunken Master, that's a potential I believe if the consumed charges by abilities heals him.

That sounds like a terrible idea

[MacroHard 151]

The easier way to dramatically increase the "fun factor" of Drunken Master without breaking balance is to make Eggnog Master the default skin.

[Whyzozerious 255]

4 minutes ago, MacroHard said:

The easier way to dramatically increase the "fun factor" of Drunken Master without breaking balance is to make Eggnog Master the default skin.

That is breaking the lore of Drunken Master. How dare you suggest such mediocre things that would ruin the balance and image of Jackie Chan. 

[MerryHONmas 68]

On 11/3/2020 at 8:44 PM, Whyzozerious said:

That is breaking the lore of Drunken Master. How dare you suggest such mediocre things that would ruin the balance and image of Jackie Chan. 

but jackie chan is not what dm is based on...
jackie chan played a character in the movie "the drunken master" that DM is based on... but dm is not based on jackie chan.
therefor even if his base alt were a 2d grinch it wouldnt do anything...

 

all that aside the "original" drunken master used to be even more complex than it's current iteration and i heavily preferred it mechanically, altho damage wise it was absolutely not okey, being able to oneshot 1.5k hp targets with his Q alone.
if his abilities healed for the charges consumed he would be the exact same way he was before just that you can now also activate his passive.
you are supposed to make a decision, not have all his tools availlable around the clock if you dont manage your mana wisely. like pebbles or midas or other str heroes that have combo potential.
it is LITERALLY the POINT of those abilities to force you to make the decision whether you want a free healthpotion that costs you mana and a few seconds of channeling, or whether you want raw damage. if you haven't understood that yet then maybe drunken master simply isn't your hero and you were way too used to being able to brainlessly kill people allthewhile being near unkillable yourself earlygame. aka being biased with tunnelvision. no offense.