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Game mode without junglers


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Find tl;dr further down under suggestion.

INTRO/CONTEXT/BACKGROUND/PROBLEM

This might be the first time i post on this forum.
Ive played this game since beta and never gotten further than about a score of 1500, which is fine, i deserve to be here.
But, at this bracket there are play styles that doesnt do well with the current balance system or game mechanics that works on higher brackets?

(one thing is nerfing supportive items ,like making astrolabe more expensive?! this is not the point of the post though)

Its the problem with junglers. People (on this bracket?!) are picking junglers when all the "fun" roles are taken as in mid or farmer on safe lane.
This usually forces the now two players left to pick a support and/or a suicider.

this would work if the then jungler would help the farm lane to dominate the safe lane, but this is rarely the case. usually it turns out that the jungler afk farms for most of the game. The suicider does its best, but their safe lane gets farmed unless the mid ganks often and successfully.

If the safe lane is soloed, the squishy carry gets under-farmed and if the jungler still wont take responsibility for the safe lane farmer, it will suffer from it.

This is very frustrating, and makes the games much more rigid in the variety of play styles. I rarely see any games with pusher teams or where gankers are prioritized. Enrolling in games with 4 carrys and 1 supp if youre lucky or less.  sometimes i doubt myself, has there ever been more than one support in a game? can a game be naturally shorter than 40min?

SUGGESTION

Ive played this game for 10 years. so i know randoms are toxic and selfish, but i think this game could do more to nudge poeple into playing better games, and taking on other roles. Id like a game type where the option to jungle is removed. either by removing junglers (even though some crazy people jungle with dr.repulsor and bloodhunter?) or just making it unwise to jungle.
With the item tome of elements, you could maybe remove recieving XP from jungle mobs altogheter. Making the killing jungle mobs only for money or pulling.

i can see that the screaming battle will continue with people playing double carrys on lanes as a result. but forcing two people to share a lane will (i believe) still create opportunitys for a dynamic game and force more co-op on each player. may the best last hitter farm, or something.

AAAAAANY HOW, i just want to play a game with out a jungler in it.
dont let people opt out too easily.
thank you.

 

 

 

 

 


my next post in 10 years will be about removing "farm safe lane carry " altogheter. have you ever heard of a more entitled kind of role. (not only should i be allowed to be weak and useless for most of the game, but also some random person should dedicate his/her game to try to mitigate my weaknesses and wrong doings while i rage on it, and hopefully it will work out)...........or i will afk

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As someone who's basically banning only jungle heroes every game, I think I kinda can understand you ? . Of course I'm not banning those because I'm worried the enemies might pick them, but because my team might.

Of course I'm a bit above your rating, so I don't get 4 carries every game. And since I'm usually supporting, I have at least one support ?.

Either way, removing jungle or even enabling an option would have a huge impact on the entire game and basically remove certain heroes from the game.
Removing heroes is problematic, because people payed for avatars and they would be angry if you removed what they payed for (not that FB/GG weren't allowed to do that, but I doubt they would).
Rebalancing most of the game would have been possible a couple of years ago, when there was "a lot" of balance testing with SBT. But right now, there's rarely any balance-testing. So this would make the game imbalanced for probably half a year or longer.

So to conclude:
You get less frustration in lower ranked games because of junglers. But you get more frustration on people that bought avatars and you get frustration about imbalanced heroes. Oh and you reduce the variants of game-drafts which would probably further hurt "professionals".
So that already sounds like a bad deal. But in addition to that, people that can't stay junglers, probably already left HoN. It would probably be bad if all the serious/good jungle-players (they exist) and some of the people that want balanced and complex games leave HoN.

Which basically means that this can't be done realistically.

Anyways, let me give you an advice to get out of your bracket for slightly better games:
Try to win the game in the picking screen.
Those "carry- and jungle-pickers" will happen in both teams. Learn which heroes can basically shut down multiple of your enemies. If your pick as suicide can keep 2-3 enemy carries at 200 gpm for the first 30 minutes, you most likely already won the game.
Also carries will usually either not teleport to help or will loose farm by doing that.
Use the picks of your enemy to your advantage instead of raging about the picks in your team.

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I like this suggestion as a public game mode but I don't know whether this mode is already in game or not.

If anyone wonders about my intelligence regarding this game, then consider yourself visiting this thread:

Alternatively, visit this blog below to see the compiled version of the threads/posts I made on this Official HoN Forum:
newerthbrainstorm.blogspot.com

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What I would like to see instead is to rework jungle heroes, so we have no hero that can jungle from lv 1

A drastic change but from what I experience in TMM where 70% of games are with junglers who simply goes there because his lane got called and he don't want to play support or go long lane, It would be a healthy change for the community. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

I would suggest this:
buff jungle creeps so jungle pickers won't go afk jungle from minute 1, they need at least some levels to be able to clear some jungle camps.
I would like to see legionnaire long lane cutting the creep waves better than afk jungle with whispering helm trying to get all the map farm, you will force them to tp and help their carry which will create more space for your position 1.
also tempest as position 4 works totally fine, specially with the new jungle camps that makes long lane easiser to controlle. you can compare it to pr you can keep denieing your ranged creep and send your Elemental creeps to farm their woods...etc

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14 hours ago, HoN_OMG said:

I would suggest this:
buff jungle creeps so jungle pickers won't go afk jungle from minute 1, they need at least some levels to be able to clear some jungle camps.
I would like to see legionnaire long lane cutting the creep waves better than afk jungle with whispering helm trying to get all the map farm, you will force them to tp and help their carry which will create more space for your position 1.
also tempest as position 4 works totally fine, specially with the new jungle camps that makes long lane easiser to controlle. you can compare it to pr you can keep denieing your ranged creep and send your Elemental creeps to farm their woods...etc

Yeah, make a secret levels for all the camps in the jungle

For example jungle creeps have lvl 6, and for every lvl difference between you and the creep they do extra 10% damage to you. That would mean after you get lvl 6, they would start doing normal damage.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 months later...

Dont forget the recent buffs for ALL jungle heros. You can heal and mana pot while getting hit. You can stack multiple camps easy without any struggle. There are more easy early game camps.

 

I simply suggest an increase in number of possible bans. It will also force games to include a bigger variety of heros. I see jungle hero in 95% of my games played.

 

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On 1/29/2021 at 3:37 PM, Ladonien said:

Please don't, jungle is like one of My favorite roles and that they removed it from dota 2 was enough

I wonder if you still play jungle if all jungle got nerfed to a place it should be. To have avarage game impact if played well. Now you can pub stomp like crazy without any effort at all. Unfortunetly, this is what a huge part of player base appreciate. A good jungle hero player is in the current meta more valuable than any other good player in different role. Such a pity in my opinion. Low effort, huge gain. Need changes. Do not need to be removed.

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  • 3 weeks later...

This has been discussed plenty of times and there is no need to remove the jungling capability imho.

You gotta ask yourself the question: If you call farm short and one player picks jungle (cause he usually plays short), would you adjust and support anytime they decide to go short farm as well?

From my experience, most people are not capable of adjusting their role and rather fight all game with the person who "took my lane".

It can bring quite some additional toxicity.

@Mezi You keep creating those posts ignoring anything said. Your opinion is really biased. If what you say would be true, that would be reflected by win rates. Apparently that's not (besides WB being better after the recent patches and Ophelia, who always have been too strong).

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