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Puppet master and his beyond god like Ultimate and Damage


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What the point if the carry dont have the items ?

Do moon queen and Swiftblade be a threat if they dont have items ?

Do you ever see anyone survive PM ultimate in close range without the help of teammates or shurken head or magic immunity?? 

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Just forget the suggestion about the mixed damage, i have the bad habit when i come to mix damage.

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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Do you have a point? 

You complain that Puppet is able to kill someone with his ultimate quite easily if he has farm.

Yeah!

Thats how hard carrys with farm work. They hit hard and are able to kill enemies using their abilities.

Its a teamgame, ofcourse you have to rely on your teammates to survive and in general just to win. And if you don´t go Shrunken Head knowing it will counter Puppet Master then how can you say Puppet is too strong? 

Give Gladiator enough farm and he is able to oneshot entire enemy team with his flagellation. Literally. He is able to do that. Does that mean he is overpowered and needs nerf?

Give Tarot enough farm and he can one shot every enemy with his critical hits. Does it mean he is overpowered and needs nerf?

Give Chronos enough farm and he can lock entire enemy team in his ultimate, twice, and kill them all.

See the pattern?

Give X hero enough farm and he is able to do Y.

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21 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

then plz ask yourself why we need to nerf Andrenaline just because he delete a hero with his ultimate? Without items, he sure can do anything ?

Adrenaline's damage is mostly coming from the mechanics and combinations of his skills rather than items. Sure items can provide additional damage for him, but his kit scales regardless of level and his items because his is based on %HP (no matter how tanky you are).

If you are to make subrants about Adrenaline in this same thread you made, I would suggest you make a dedicated one for Adrenaline to make the case for him (i.e. his recent nerfs being unreasonable).

Adrenaline has his own issues to deal with though - i.e. his reliance on snowballing (since he has 0 farming skills in his kit), his % mana based skills (are both a boon and a curse). He does have a lot of mobility though.

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Nope, i dont complain about adrenaline, i complain about PM. Sure we dont see them often like orther carry but doesn't mean that their skill is good. like old nitro or Qi

PM alone, summon a puppet, attack the puppet like attack orther heroes and the target recive the lethal crazy damage. Normal you will have few seconds to run but most of the times, it's too late for reaction.

 

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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Too bad real games don´t play out quite like you describe. If you are outplayed by Puppet Master then you should learn to play better. 

If you give Puppet the space he wants to have then you will have a problem late game as is the case with any other carry.

If you refuse to counter him with heroes or items then that is also on you.

 

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for me, Sand Wrath or Chronos is more annoying than Puppet Master.

But Sw and Chronos still have some space to play against while PM most likely one shot the heroes before they can reaction.

HoN SEA Player

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4 hours ago, w3_StarBoy said:

for me, Sand Wrath or Chronos is more annoying than Puppet Master.

But Sw and Chronos still have some space to play against while PM most likely one shot the heroes before they can reaction.

I beg to disagree.

SW and Chronos have their mobility aspect covered, but they have a slower start as they have no strong means to farm. Their scaling aspect is also related to how their different abilities work together (Chronos has one of the strongest abilities/ultimates in the game - with a superior AoE stun - while also having bash mechanics for follow-up and Rewind+Leap for survivability, while SW has Mirage is his instant-port, his illusions for massive scaling, and his Desert's Curse for mobility/chase/escape/terrain-walk - at the disadvantage of having minimal CC). 

On the other hand, PM has his 3rd as his all-around skill (damage, harass, and farming - the skill he can abuse the most), his 1st and 2nd as single-target soft-CC skills (but with long durations, but also long cooldowns to compensate), and his ultimate (another single-target skill) as damage amplifier/finisher (and as his only other source of addiitonal damage within his kit). All these, however, provide him with no quick escape mechanisms whatsoever (the closest you can consider is 

As mentioned, each hero has their own strengths and weaknesses - along with their respective counters. Looking at PM's kit, it would really be illogical to go to him alone - as he specializes 1v1 combat. Chronos, at least, you can bait out his leap and try going against him 1v1 (if you really insist on 1v1), while SW is more or less a walking creep you can easily harass early game (which is why he has the advantage of farming at the last second and porting into a clash when need to take some kills with his ult). Not PM, you'll have to play around his 1v1 specialty by going at least 1v2 (so his disables wouldn't turn the tables fully against the ganker/aggressor - because his skills can be be maximized on 1 target).

I would also advise using Tanky Heroes that can go straight to PM's face and see how PM reacts (especially early game). You shut down PM early on in the game, then constantly apply pressure to his farm such that he can't farm as fast (or as safe) and your carry can easily outpace PM's damage. As mentioned by multiple users earlier, the scenarios you highlight have the following conditions fulfilled by PM to allow him to do his feats: (1) leaving him to free farm (which he can easily do when support stacks for him - as his E abuses stack-clearing) and (2) allowing him to set-up with minimal counter/opposition (PM players would either aim to pick-off a lone/distant target through a side ambush or aim to wait for things to get heated so he can deal free hits against enemies from a distance - like how Tarot or FB would play things out).

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Whatever heroes is most annoying to you or me, it's just self personal.

Some people say vindicator is most annoying, the other say Marty, Pearl, and the other is Madman, night hound.

What i want to say here is PM and only his ultimate.

Edited by w3_StarBoy

HoN SEA Player

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On 8/26/2020 at 12:50 PM, w3_StarBoy said:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wME0oZb2OTQ . HoN OMG annihilation 187 (started at 7:34) The puppet deal damage twice to Prophet with single non critical hit?

 

This is probably a bug, never had it in my life playing with PM

Anyhow, PM isn't an OP hero, his farming potential is similar to that of other carry. Building early farming items mean subject to risk of ganking, therefore one optimal strategy for PM players is to rush Assasin's Shroud and go for the offensive while farming whenever he could. In your videos, the PM was already overleveled and overfarmed comparing to other heroes, so it is not unusual that he can completely kill in one-shot. Actually, PM is a hero designed for 1v1 or 1v2 situation. In a bigger dynamic combat, he can easily become the target while being exposed when casting spells. To keep his security, PM needs quick farm, if he doesn't get much more farm than his opponent, he is vulnerable to risks as any other carries.

Edited by Acnowlogia
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On 9/10/2020 at 10:47 AM, Acnowlogia said:

This is probably a bug, never had it in my life playing with PM

 

by the way, since no one noticed, the second instance of damage is due to hellbringer's Q hitting the puppet

The princess is always in another castle

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OK i want to explain why OP is saying puppet master is kinda strong in garenaHON.

in sea puppet master is pretty popular especially in high rank. because in casual mode where people is playing hide and seek with full items and puppet master is a hero that can one shot any hero when his ult his up (shroud +normal attack with 3rd +timed ult before his normal attack hit) and can push out waves with his 3rd skill and destroy tower faster. people building him agility items like genjuro, geo, wingbow, SH and null. for mobility and surviving which is puppet master is lacking.

Now imagine it in normal mode where puppet master is played with support especially andro or witchslayer  vs 2 people forced to play long and not communicating because they didn't que up together or solo long lane because someone picked jungle.
now puppet can easily dominate that lane due to his holds 1st and 2nd and heavy damage 3rd skill and farm his core items faster and snowball the game but this is all depends on match-up.

He is perfectly balanced because he doesn't have any escape skills that can help him survive unlike MB, SILO, DL, Maliken etc and his primary attribute is INT which agility items doesn't boost much his damage.



 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 9/13/2020 at 9:48 AM, Omgitsemil said:

OK i want to explain why OP is saying puppet master is kinda strong in garenaHON.

in sea puppet master is pretty popular especially in high rank. because in casual mode where people is playing hide and seek with full items and puppet master is a hero that can one shot any hero when his ult his up (shroud +normal attack with 3rd +timed ult before his normal attack hit) and can push out waves with his 3rd skill and destroy tower faster. people building him agility items like genjuro, geo, wingbow, SH and null. for mobility and surviving which is puppet master is lacking.

Now imagine it in normal mode where puppet master is played with support especially andro or witchslayer  vs 2 people forced to play long and not communicating because they didn't que up together or solo long lane because someone picked jungle.
now puppet can easily dominate that lane due to his holds 1st and 2nd and heavy damage 3rd skill and farm his core items faster and snowball the game but this is all depends on match-up.

He is perfectly balanced because he doesn't have any escape skills that can help him survive unlike MB, SILO, DL, Maliken etc and his primary attribute is INT which agility items doesn't boost much his damage.
 

In SEA the teamwork factor is too low which makes PM very strong because that hero is specifically designed to excel in a 1v1 situation.

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